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Cheap horse turns out to be a winner?

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cheryl makofka
Reg. Jan 2011
Posted 2015-09-26 10:02 PM
Subject: RE: Cheap horse turns out to be a winner?


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FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-09-25 4:00 PM

stayceem - 2015-09-25 10:16 AM

Found this interesting article, talks about prices a lot - many of the pros listed

Monday, April 27, 2009High Dollar Horses
In last month's issue of the Western Horseman was a brief article about High-Dollar Barrel Racing(Out of the Chutes by Ed Knocke)...and it has kind of stuck in my craw every since.

I looked for the article online so you all could read it yourselves, but was not able to locate it...so I'm just going to basically hit on a few of the points that sorta torqued me off and why.

"Barrel racing has undergone a major transformation in recent years. Today's women ride racehorses with outstanding pedigrees, not cow horses with ranch savvy. And as the quality of competition has increased, available money has spiraled upward."

There is no doubt this is all true... kinda. It's an odd statement to make when so many barrel horse trainers actually prefer horses that have been used on a ranch or will specifically send their green horses somewhere so they can get some cattle work done on them. Why? Because top barrel horses are more than just racehorses. Barrel racing is not all about speed. You have to have a fast horse...that can also turn a barrel. It's a delicate mix. If it was only a race, you would see more TB's succeeding in barrel racing and well, can anyone think of a single TB that has ever been a great barrel horse? I can't.

Lindsey Spears, speaks of her mare, Martha(worth six figures), "She was born to run barrels, based on her genetics. Her sire competed at the NFR. Even today, he's among the most dominant stallions in barrel racing. There are very few people out there riding $500 horses today."

Yea, she's right. Martha's bloodlines are the cream of the crop. That mare is doing exactly what she was bred to do......And she was almost a wash-out! She was originally intended to be a futurity horse, but wasn't handling that very well. You all want to know why Martha is the great barrel horse she is today? Dena Kirkpatrick KNEW this mare had potential. She KNEW she was a great mare. And she was smart enough not to ruin her by forcing the futurity issue. I always wonder just how many horses with the exact same potential end up washed out and with blown minds because people can't or won't recognize that what they are doing isn't working?

This is where I get more than a bit huffy about what some people think $500 horses are or are capable of achieving. There are a lot of girls going down the road these days that ARE riding high dollar horses. Almost none of them MADE these horses. They are just good at maintaining them and good enough jockeys that they can get good runs out of these horses. But where did these horses come from? They weren't always high dollar horses. Someone had to train them. Someone had to put the time in on them to make them what they are. Cause if they hadn't, they would be $500 horses(or free).

Brittany Pozzi-Pharr thinks cheap barrel horses are a thing of the past. She paid a significant amount for her horse, Stitch, that she won't even reveal the exact figure. "I paid quite a bit for him," she says. "He was already a trained barrel horse and the man who owned him knew what he was."

Well, Duuuhhhh!! Some of these girls...I swear! Anytime you have a good one, you know what they are and you are not going to give them away. BTW, Thanks Brittany...I'm going to jack the price of all my barrel horses several grand...because barrel horses aren't cheap these days. ;-)

The part that irritates me the most is when they compare jockeys, like these girls to people who made their horses. Like...

Charmayne James and Scamper...and Magic....and Cruizer. Charmayne made all of those horses. Particularly Scamper. Charmayne is more than just a jockey on a barrel horse. She can make a horse great-from start to the NFR. I think I remember Scamper's original price was $1500(?).

or...

Kristie Peterson and Bozo. Yea, Bozo was a $400 purchase. He was also partially blind, cranky, untrained and bad to kick. It took Kristie and her husband YEARS to turn Bozo into a decent saddle horse, much less a 4-time World Champion.

or even...

Kelly Kaminski and Rocky. Kelly raised Rocky, out of a mare she paid $500 for. But she was the one who trained him and made him great.

how about...

Jill Moody and Dolly. Jill doesn't even own Dolly. But she is about the only one who can get along with her. Dolly's owners raised her and think the world of both Jill and Dolly.

Maybe it's because I have a soft spot for the underdog. Maybe, it's because I actually train my own barrel horses...but, I don't think the big change in barrel racing is so much about what a horse costs. I think we have just realized a clear delineation between barrel racers and barrel jockeys.

You know, for a long time, I didn't really care for Sheri Cervi. It was no secret that she came from money and paid big bucks for the horses she rode. But, I read a quote from her one time that raised my level of respect for her wayyyy up there. Basically she just acknowledged that her family did have money and could afford to pay for very nice horses for her. She always wanted to make it to the NFR and she was thankful she had the means to make that dream come true.

Now that's a woman after my own heart. So down to earth and grateful for the opportunities she had available. There was no looking down on others and no need to feel superior because she could afford to buy the best. There is an article about her in the new Western Horseman this month. She is going to make a bid for the NFR on a horse raised by her family. And I for one, hope she kicks some snotty little jockey butt!!

Does this mean I don't respect people who buy finished horses to run barrels on? Absolutely not, if everyone trained their own horses, trainers would be out of business. I just don't like the attitude that you have to pay big bucks to make it.

http://browneyedcowgirls.blogspot.com/2009/04/high-dollar-horses.ht...

One thing that is annoying is when people leave out a major major player in the training their own horses discussion all together.... FALLON TAYLOR.

She raced Dr Nick Bar and Flowers and Money at only 13 years old all the way to the NFR. Then she bred and trained the 4 full siblings out of those two horses - Babyflo, Neffy, Nick Nack, and Chuck (RIP). All of them are/were stunning barrel horses, for many different riders. I honestly believe that Chuck would've been better than Babyflo had he not gotten hurt and later passed away. Not to mention that now she is running the 3rd generation of this line with Duty (Chuck Me Right), one of the few sons of Chuck, and he is a stunning 4yo (with a equally stunning price tag...haha).

She is one that for some reason is usually left out when talking about the ones who don't just buy their horses trained, and I really don't understand why. She is the only one I can think of off the top of my head that has bred/raced multiple generations of NFR horses (if there are others, please tell).

Edited: Ok, now I see, I was typing too fast for my brain. haha my bad, I knew what I was trying to say and it wouldn't come out right.

Sheri Cervi has raced 2 generations

Dinero
Stingray
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tin can
Reg. Dec 2013
Posted 2015-09-27 5:58 AM
Subject: RE: Cheap horse turns out to be a winner?


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It's hard to find good horses at a reasonable price anymore. I never begrudge those who can pay 20,000. And up i can't . Do you think it's starting to hurt barrelracing?
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HorseMommyFiveO
Reg. Jan 2012
Posted 2015-09-27 10:52 AM
Subject: RE: Cheap horse turns out to be a winner?


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I was just talking about this to another 'seasoned' gal. We've both watched the changes over the last 20 or so years. Competition is MUCH tougher now and the game is so much more expensive. Add in the changes to the circuit system and the reality is that you have to have a truckload of money just to enter and travel enough to make it. The cost of the horse is almost a non-issue comparatively. No more cab over campers, no more slumming it at cheap hotels as a 'treat' or wash rack shampoos. Now it's $100k living quarters zigzagging through all the circuits. Buying a $500 horse and having a chance at the real big time is a story I tell my kids at bedtime now.
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kwanatha
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2015-09-27 11:45 AM
Subject: RE: Cheap horse turns out to be a winner?


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I have looked for years for the right horse. i do find that there are more horse traders than ever before, because of the prices today.  I think barrel horses do have more of a definition and thus barrel bloodlines have evolved. I also think that many more horsemen are competitors and their knowledge has grown, so they do know what they have and price them much higher than before. The average horse with those same characteristics would have been priced much lower 25 years ago; even when considering inflation.

That bargain that riders/trainers stumbled on years ago is so rare today and will probably become even more rare as barrel racing evolves. One thing that is different is Horse brokers, Nowadays if an owner doesn't know what they have they take it to a broker to get evalutated and sold and so that price that might have been real super cheap with an unknowledible owner has now skyrocketed.

so now the very best horses are more than likely owned by people with considerable wealth or were bred by a breeder with considerable resources such as LAND. These owners if they place their horse with a horseman to promote them will end up choosing one that already has a reputation that was built before it became almost impossible to break into this buisness. They simply do not hand the reins over to someone that is stuggling for their first break.

 
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nuevocowgirl
Reg. Oct 2005
Posted 2015-09-27 1:54 PM
Subject: RE: Cheap horse turns out to be a winner?



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No doubt, great horses come from all walks of life! That being said, the bloodlines of today are being specialized just like the halter horses, cutting horses, pleasure horses. Certain bloodlines just do better at barrel racing and they are being bred to others like them. Trainers prefer certain bloodlines because of their trainability, or their style that gets along with how that trainer rides. Jordan Briggs prefers Frenchmans Guy bloodlines, Lance Graves prefers Dash Ta Fame, etc. These high profile trainers don't train just to train, they train to win! And have figured out what bloodlines suit them. Barrel racing has definitely evolved, and is getting very exciting to watch!
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Itsme
Reg. Jul 2013
Posted 2015-09-27 3:44 PM
Subject: RE: Cheap horse turns out to be a winner?


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We got one.
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Itsme
Reg. Jul 2013
Posted 2015-09-27 3:45 PM
Subject: RE: Cheap horse turns out to be a winner?


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Itsme - 2015-09-27 3:44 PM

We got one.

OOOPS, I miss read that, ours is turning out to be a real wiener.
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Swannranch
Reg. Sep 2005
Posted 2015-09-27 7:37 PM
Subject: RE: Cheap horse turns out to be a winner?


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 We had one. Cheap is flexible, but we paid $3K for an 11 year old mare. She won about $60K in money, prizes and trailers. Was 2nd at NHSRA Finals, won the Open 2D sweepstakes at NBHA World 2006 behind Hot Shor, then won thw 2D Finals behind Papa Stop 3 days later. Won lots of Open PCA Rodeos and 1d money. None of the gigantic names on her papers. Probably would not look at her blood lines before.I do now though :)
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*almost there*
Reg. Apr 2006
Posted 2015-09-27 10:55 PM
Subject: RE: Cheap horse turns out to be a winner?


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What do you consider a "horse trader".

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LDH
Reg. Nov 2011
Posted 2015-09-27 11:17 PM
Subject: RE: Cheap horse turns out to be a winner?



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I bought my good mare for 2000 dollars as a 14 year old kid. I used baby sitting money for half of her and borrowed the other half from my grandpa (my parents were never into horses and I didn't want them to have a say in my horse so I bought her myself haha) and paid him back. She was a scrawny, downhill, ugly little think with a huge crack in her hoof that didn't even know how to back up when I bought her and couldn't even come close to loping a circle. 2 years later she was a little BA and was a consistent 1d/2d horse. She won me a lot of money the last summer I ran her, the last weekend we ran she was in the top of the 1d against tough horses. She was off for the winter and the next spring she broke her coffin bone. 3 years after that she is back to running and this summer was ran by an 11 year old who won buckles on her and pulled a check almost every time she ran. She's literally worth her weight in gold. I thank god every day I bought the scrawny little horse with a crack in her hoof when I was 14!
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kwanatha
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2015-09-28 7:22 AM
Subject: RE: Cheap horse turns out to be a winner?


Meanest Teacher!!!


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*almost there* - 2015-09-27 8:55 PM What do you consider a "horse trader".

Someone who buys and sells horses for profit. Please don't read more into it.
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scwebster
Reg. Mar 2013
Posted 2015-09-28 9:20 AM
Subject: RE: Cheap horse turns out to be a winner?



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My mother in law picked out my boy at a sale. Paid $150 bucks for him when he was a lanky long yearling. My husband then bought him for $600 as a 3 yr old. I started him on barrels as 4 yr old, then he went to the roping pen where he was hauled (and won) at the pro rodeos as a heel horse. I stole him back and he has placed in the 1D at jackpots in my area, and is really starting to make a rodeo horse.  Everyone that knows his story tells me I will never get so lucky again. lol.
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kboltwkreations
Reg. Mar 2011
Posted 2015-09-28 10:21 AM
Subject: RE: Cheap horse turns out to be a winner?



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WrapSnap - 2015-09-25 4:27 PM


Fallon Taylor did not train Dr Nick Bar, or Flowers and Money. The memory of the late, great Larry Stevens should not be discounted. Larry led Fallon up many an alley on that great stud horse. He made him and he maintained him. Dr Nick Bar was a purchased for Fallon when she was 8 or 9 years old, very shortly after buying her WPRA permit. I remember seeing her win a big rodeo in LA on him when she was just a peanut and it was cool to see!

Someone else knows the history on Flo Jo, I'm sure, but that mare was a good one when they bought her, as well. Mommy and Daddy were always quite happy to boast about how much they paid for her horses. Fallon has done an admirable job over the years, I'm not taking that away from her. I just don't want to see history get taught incorrectly.

I was lucky enough to ride 2 of the horses he owned/trained.
They were flawless just like the others. He was such a great trainer/jockey!
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~BINGO~
Reg. Jan 2012
Posted 2015-09-28 10:45 AM
Subject: RE: Cheap horse turns out to be a winner?



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We bought my mare for $800. She was 7 and had been sitting for 4 years. As a 3 year old she was patterned but (somehow) was too much for the lady's young kids to ride.  They said she was crazy and she wouldn't even get on the mare for me to see her ridden. Took the gamble and brought her home. She won't make the nfr, but luckily that's not a goal of mine. She runs high 17s and low 18s. 22s in poles and improving all the time. She's not the best and she's not perfect, but she's amazing to me.
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dashnlotti
Reg. Aug 2009
Posted 2015-09-28 10:53 AM
Subject: RE: Cheap horse turns out to be a winner?



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I had one. I always wish that our ages had been flipped lol. I was 10 and he was 20 when we got together. He still had "it" those first couple of years we ran together, but I was playing catch up lol. He was a 19 sec pole horse, and could hang with the big girls at rodeos. But by the time I was really riding good, he had just slowed down. I ran him in poles until I was a senior in HS, actually I ran him the weekend before he passed.
He was just a grade gelding broke on a trail ride and taught to race anything that ran past lol. My uncle trained him for my cousin, and I ended up with him when my horse got hurt. He had a rough life before he came to us. He wasn't taken care of at all, but had zero joint issues, and just amazed any chiros and vets that saw him.
I still wish I had been 20, and he 10 when I got him!!
I'm going to try to post a couple of pics, they don't normally work on my phone. In both he is over 25 for sure. Being grade we just had to patch his age together lol, but we know all of his past owners so it's a pretty good estimate, assuming the first one really bought him as a 3yo.






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Izzy+coy
Reg. Mar 2015
Posted 2015-09-29 12:51 PM
Subject: RE: Cheap horse turns out to be a winner?



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Thanks for all the stories (:
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