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 Professional Amateur
Posts: 6750
    
Location: Oklahoma | I had a really nice Shining Spark mare on consignment in 2015. She had 90 days of barrels on her, but she needed to learn how to be a horse and gain confidence. I didn't have her look at a barrel the entire time I had her. We just worked on teaching her to be a confident horse. It took me a lot of time. She put in 8 to 10 hour days standing tied, being rode, etc. The girl that ended up with her adores her and took my advice on continuing her training and she is thriving.
When I get ones like this in I may "cheat" a little to get their focus and attention by giving them a THE calming cookie or something else. Sometimes it saves me months of working with them. We become a team and they learn to lean on me for more confidence.
I like to get horses when they are ready to "finish" and teach them about putting their big boy/girl panties on to hit the road. I work on exposing them to everything at the house and spending hours at the trailer, in the arena, in the pasture, or just me sitting with them, they have flying objects across the arena (thanks to the Oklahoma wind). . music, etc. If they're not with the herd. . I am the herd.
You probably need to take those spurs off too. Strip down to the basics and go from there. You can do it.
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 Straight Shooter
Posts: 5725
Location: SW North Dakota | just4fun - 2016-02-01 8:50 AM ND3canAddict - 2016-01-29 2:55 PM Not saying this is the case with anyone here, but sometimes riders work way too hard to "get around" a fragile minded horse, and they end up worse. That's why I think a real, blue-collar job is the best bet. They have to focus on the task at hand. They have to work through getting tired. They have to figure out how to deal with their "disability." If the rider is patient, but firm and helps them focus and gain confidence, the might always defaut to being sensitive, but they have some life-skills built up to function. Plus, if they've worked for a living, they might find barrel racing to be a pleasant reward- rather than stressful.
I had a mare that was super sensitive, she'd puff up and want to buck if she was overwhelmed. I'd squeeze half a buttcheek and she'd be finished with her 4th spin before I could unclench. Luckily, we ranch in some rough badlands country, so I used her for checking water and moving pairs in 17,000 acres. The first few days weren't fun for either of us, but I loved her, so I kept taking her. Most of what we did was power walking up and down hills on a loose rein- for hours on end. After a couple of weeks, and a lot of tight spots, she learned that it was easier to relax and wait for a command than over-react 9000 times a day. On the off days, we'd work the barrels for a little bit and she'd get pampered. If she'd get wadded up, we'd get past it by doing "brain engage" drills like half-passing, hip yields, etc- but it was never a big deal. Once the wad cleared, we'd carry on like nothing happened. I'm sure no one gives a hoot about this story, but the moral is: She turned out to be a ton of fun. Once she quit wigging out, I allowed compromises with her. I chose my battles, and we understood each other. In addition to becomming a pretty decent barrel horse, she was also my very favorite ranch horse. She still had her quirks, but we understood and trusted each other. I'm so glad to read your posts again! You are so knowledgeable and full of insight! Glad you came back  Your little mare was a rockstar! You did a super job bringing her along to her full potential. I wish I were half the horsewoman!
I would consider mine <----- somewhat fragile-minded. Although we never made it in the barrel pen (unrelated issues), she has turned into the very best kids horse b/c of it! She is sensitive and kind, and smart enough in her older years to know that she doesn't have to work hard with my daughter on her.
Awww, thanks! It's nice to feel like you're appreciated. HAHA.
I know your mare pretty well, and I'd agree she is fragile minded, but in a different way. She is (was) a "my way or the highway" type. With her, I felt like it was a game of outsmarting her to make her think that MY idea was HER idea! ha. I never felt like I had to "get around" her. She's smart, just not as willing as one would prefer. Very fun in her own right.
The positive side to all horses and their individual personalities is the more of them you ride, the more you learn. In my opinion, that's what makes someone a good horseman. Learning from horses, and never being too proud or cocky to recognize a learning opportunity. That said, sometimes descretion is the better part of valor. haha. In my old age, if I don't REALLY like a horse, I will pass on them, because I understand the magnitude of the committment that some of them take. |
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Straight Shooter
Posts: 5725
Location: SW North Dakota | Pocob - 2016-02-01 9:18 AM I had a really nice Shining Spark mare on consignment in 2015. She had 90 days of barrels on her, but she needed to learn how to be a horse and gain confidence. I didn't have her look at a barrel the entire time I had her. We just worked on teaching her to be a confident horse. It took me a lot of time. She put in 8 to 10 hour days standing tied, being rode, etc. The girl that ended up with her adores her and took my advice on continuing her training and she is thriving.
When I get ones like this in I may "cheat" a little to get their focus and attention by giving them a THE calming cookie or something else. Sometimes it saves me months of working with them. We become a team and they learn to lean on me for more confidence.
I like to get horses when they are ready to "finish" and teach them about putting their big boy/girl panties on to hit the road. I work on exposing them to everything at the house and spending hours at the trailer, in the arena, in the pasture, or just me sitting with them, they have flying objects across the arena (thanks to the Oklahoma wind). . music, etc. If they're not with the herd. . I am the herd.
You probably need to take those spurs off too. Strip down to the basics and go from there. You can do it.
I agree. There are some tools we can use to help a horse be more comfortable in their own skin so they can be open to pleasant training experiences.
Feed is the same way. People want to feed their horses up to feel big, strong- 10 feet tall and bulletproof. I like mine the same way. IMO, there are certain indivduals that can't be fed that way because their level of training won't allow it. They feel their absolute best, but don't have the foundation of training to feel that good. haha. Multiplied exponentially with a fractious minded horse. I am NOT saying starve them out and seduce their minds. I'm saying that meeting their basic nutritional needs and keeping them healthy might be preferred over feeding them like they are training for the Kentucky Derby. I've had it in my own horses. They can't "handle" my feed of choice sometimes when they are 3-4 years old, but once they are 5-6, they do great on it.
I feel like I'm rambling now, so I'll shut up. 
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 959
Location: Borger, Tx | I say keep at it! I have a mare I bought when she was 6 months old she is now 7. She is a double bred Tanquery Gin and her momma was real watchy on the ground and very distrusting of humans which carried over to this mare. I sent her off as a 2 yr old to a guy that I had been told does a good job breaking one....He had her 60 days and when I got her back I was mortified! He had decided to break her AND start her on barrels for me!! This mare was terrified of the arena and the barrels. Long story short I have taken my time with her and last year tried the Fluphenazine which worked wonders and have now weaned her off and she is on Oxy-Gen Pozzi Relax pellets. Went to a barrel race this weekend and she was not nervous and did not overreact to anything. I feel we are on the right path now.
Good luck, I understand your situation but if you really like her you should stick with her. If not let me know I may be interested in her:)
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 349
Location: texas | I am in the same position :/
Except my 4yo mare is left brained and way too smart....
Playgun bred on top and doc o lena on bottom...
I showed her barrels and she took right to it but now she thinks she is control and its a mess....
I am so frustrated w her, debated wether to sell her :(
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 824
Location: Duvall, WA | mollibtexan - 2016-01-31 11:57 PM
Cut your losses move on get something different. The second you add pressure you will be fighting an uphill battle.
Ditto. Life is too short and there are too many good ones out there to have to work that hard. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 387
| Seriously thank you for all of the advise!
believe it or not I may of had a couple just good rides on her, or these changes are working a bit!
She was a little spoiled previously, in her own pen and grained everyday, so I took her out and put her in the mare pen, where she can be put in the pecking order a bit.. lol
I took her out in the pasture through the snow this weekend and I had some good rides! and I took her back into a plain snaffle on sat at the arena and she was a dream, 10 mins and I quit her there, I also tied her up for a couple hours prior to the patience pole cause she normally doesn't stand tied nice. she had her foot resting and everything!
I am gonna give her some time before I throw in the towel on her, at least wait till summer when i can really put some miles on her.
Im heading to the arena tonight after work to ride, so Im hoping for another nice ride!
as of now, if and when I do get her running, she feels like shes gonna be one of those horses that wins the race one night and the next night blows up the wall, hopefully not after these changes. thats just how her rides have been going. relaxed and calm one night and then its a fight the next and I just pick one battle and quit it there. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 387
| heres a couple pics of her just to see what I'm dealing with lol 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD0l96uMI5Y
Edited by zansbeunogal_2268 2016-02-02 8:38 AM
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 494
| I have a cowbred ex reiner that's also like this. She's coming on 12 and still a fragile nutcase. I never ride anywhere near an arena at home and have to ace her just to take the "edge" off when I run. Sometimes it works, others it doesn't. As soon as you add any type of pressure, good luck on the rest of your ride that day. Might as well just step off and save the tension. She is 1D freaky athletic and fast so I have kept her for 3 years since I bought her, but I'm contemplating selling because it causes both of us too much stress that it's not even fun anymore. |
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Straight Shooter
Posts: 5725
Location: SW North Dakota |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 349
Location: texas | OMG there must be a curse of the bay mare crazy lol....
my 4yo cow bred is bay too.....
here picture
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 It's not my fault I'm perfect
Posts: 13739
Location: Where the long tails flow, ND | My 'fragile mind' mare is a bay also 
I can ride her no problem, she is a work aholic. But she had some issues with her health that makes her really leery of people. Blah. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 349
Location: texas | Mine isnt as "fragile" as she is as "smarta$$" she too smart and likes to throw little temper tantrums when she gets bored, i am trying to learn to work around it....
Edited by teamthompson 2016-02-02 3:13 PM
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  Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Start testing her for PSSM1 and 2. It sounds a lot like that. You can find out by pulling hair and sending it to UC Davis through AQHA. There will soon be a test for PSSM2. It's sometimes possible to manage their symptoms with feed and exercise. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| SmokinGirlie - 2016-02-02 12:42 PM
My 'fragile mind' mare is a bay also
I can ride her no problem, she is a work aholic. But she had some issues with her health that makes her really leery of people. Blah.
Yep! Mine is a bay mare too!  |
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 Thick and Wavy
Posts: 6102
Location: Nebraska | what stud is she by? she looks just like my bay shining spark |
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 That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| RodeoCowgirl4u - 2016-01-29 2:26 PM
I also have a Shining Spark...and this seems to be the case with them. However, mine is older and when I got her I am now the 8th owner on her registration papers. got in contact with one of her old owners as well as looking up her name. Did the cutting futurities at 3, didn't make the "cut," got sent to a barrel horse trainer and did barrel futurities at 5. Now she's even more blown out and got sent to a team roper...some more people, and then my friend who sold her to me cheap because I was the only person who could stay on her.
it took me 3 months just to get this horse to stand still while riding. Seriously. We would saddle up, go into the arena and stand there doing nothing for 15 minutes. She would flip her head, fidget, swing her hips, and dance in place the whole time and I would just have to sit there and pet her. Barrels and poles were out of the question as she would go NUTS if they were even in an arena. Now I have had her 2 years, and after lots of trail rides and just hanging out, we have won the 4D with me not pushing her and just kind of taking it easy as she is a true free runner.
I have learned that for this type of horse you CAN'T get angry or frustrated as you may as well just get off. You have to be quiet yet firm in the fact that their "hotness" won't get them out of doing something. You just have to stop, let them settle, and go back to it. Even if it takes a while. Of course, like someone else said, if you don't have this kind of time it would be best to send her on down the road to someone who has more time. She might make an awesome open rodeo horse, but if my mare's story is anything...a futurity will probably blow her out completely. Just my $0.02
All this sounds too much like my shining spark gelding http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ms+heza+lookingthing He is a nice rope horse after several years work. He is still super sensitive and actually a pain to deal with. Good thing he is athletic. |
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