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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
   
Location: North Dakota | And so goes the saga of seasoning a horse. 
A quick background: Red is an 8-year-old AQHA gelding. This will be my 3rd summer with him. I've taken him real slow on the pattern because I do more things than just run barrels with him, and I wanted to keep him quiet. He does have a catching stifle on his right hind (it has never fully locked) that my vet injected in March. I keep in close contact with her (and usually send her my videos) and she has told me to keep going with him at this point because he is looking better.
I've gone to 3 outdoor jackpots with him so far this year. And those 3 were the first time I asked for SPEED in competition. At the first outdoor jackpot, he ran past the barrels in our first run (as most horses were, finally getting to run outside) and in our second run he only ran past the first barrel. So I was happy with his improvement on his second run. I did exhibition him (slow) so that he could see where the barrels were.
The second outdoor jackpot was on Saturday. I made a crazy decision to drive 3 hours to this one. For myself, that is the farthest I've driven for a barrel race. I exhibitioned him, again, to show him where the barrels were (slow exhibition). I was pleased with him throughout the day because he was nice and quiet waiting for his turn, but then seemed to know exactly what we were going to do when I entered the arena with him. His first run was actually pretty decent, although he did run by the 3rd barrel a bit. The winning time was a 17.7 and we got a 19.9. There were 86 entries. The second run He. Did. Awesome.!!! For the first time in 3 years, I felt like I just ran a finished barrel horse. He ran hard for me, and all 3 of his turns were fantastic! The winning time was a 17.5 and he clocked an 18.9. He improved an entire second for his second run. I was smiling the entire drive home!!!
And then comes yesterday. My smile is gone.  Once, again, I did an exhibition like we usually do to show him where the barrels are. We did our first run, and he blew past each barrel. The one thing he did do well is that he was going to turn his 3rd barrel too soon, and I asked him to wait .... and he did! So I guess I can look at that in a positive light. Winning time was a 16.7 and we got an 18.8. There were 96 entries. I was hoping for much better on our second run (Because I know what he is capable of) but it was much, much worse. At least on the first run, when I bumped him with my rein to say (Hey, you are forgetting to turn) he kinda "snapped" on the backside of the turn and came around. On our second run? .... This is something I NEVER do but I actually had to reach over with my outside hand to grab farther down on the rein. He was not listening at all. Surprisingly, we still clocked an 18.9 as I was expecting it to be slower. I was SO dissapointed with our runs when I was driving home, because I know he can do better.
So if you've read my book up until this point  , I am not sure what to do. Do I just keep doing what I am doing? Do I change bits? Do I try a tie down? Do I need to slow him down in competition? Did he just have a bad day? (and a good day a few days before?)
I do barrel work at home about once a week (sometimes twice). I mostly do drills but everyone once in a while I'll run a set at home. He can handle his speed at home most of the time. What I have done at home if he would "ignore" a turn like that is pop him with a quirt on his outside shoulder. Maybe I need to carry one with our competition runs and do the same thing.
Out of all those runs, the only one I got on video was our last one = the WORST one.
Please note, the 3rd barrel was my fault. I knew he was wanting to turn it too soon and I thought we had enough room. I was wrong and he had to take it wide to avoid it. It is my fault for not asking him to hold off. I also think I need to arc him into the 1st barrel better. I thought I was doing that okay but re-watching my video I think I need to arc him more to ease into the turn.
Anyway. Please feel free to critique because there may be something I am doing wrong too. Should I change anything (tack-wise) or just continue the course? I run him in a Jr. Cowhorse right now. So far, his head throwing is the best with this bit.
http://youtu.be/LcSDFoAFTkw
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
 
| I watched the video, the first run.
What I see is you are not rating the horse, you sit when you get to the barrel, the horse has no shape and is left to figure it out for himself.
On all my colts I do a 2 handed bump with the reins to cue them to shorten their stride.
I also see you are pulling too much 3/4 of the way around each turn where he is telling you enough by throwing his head, you need to focus on using your legs, and softening up your hands.
If I am doing everything right and the horse is still slow on rating, I will go to a more leverage bit, this is as a last resort. I had one horse who is crazy fast and would do all his slow work beautifully in a snaffle, but I did not have enough rate when we added speed. With him I went to a Charmayne James grasshopper bit only for competition.
If this was my horse what I would try first is to work on rate, make sure I am rating the horse at the right time, sometimes you have to back your rate point when you are running. If that doesn't work, then I would look at a different bit for rate.
I would not use a tie down, as all my horses don't have a problem with their head set. I will use a German martingale, if I need to work a little on collection.
Edited by cheryl makofka 2014-05-27 10:25 AM
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | cheryl makofka - 2014-05-27 10:20 AM I watched the video, the first run. What I see is you are not rating the horse, you sit when you get to the barrel, the horse has no shape and is left to figure it out for himself. On all my colts I do a 2 handed bump with the reins to cue them to shorten their stride. I also see you are pulling too much 3/4 of the way around each turn where he is telling you enough by throwing his head, you need to focus on using your legs, and softening up your hands. If I am doing everything right and the horse is still slow on rating, I will go to a more leverage bit, this is as a last resort. I had one horse who is crazy fast and would do all his slow work beautifully in a snaffle, but I did not have enough rate when we added speed. With him I went to a Charmayne James grasshopper bit only for competition. If this was my horse what I would try first is to work on rate, make sure I am rating the horse at the right time, sometimes you have to back your rate point when you are running. If that doesn't work, then I would look at a different bit for rate. I would not use a tie down, as all my horses don't have a problem with their head set. I will use a German martingale, if I need to work a little on collection.
I agree with what you see.
Another question for you folks: What cues do you go through as you approach a turn for a horse that 1) needs rate 2) but will anticipate the turn ?
When we've kicked up the speed, I know I am waiting to sit down because I don't want him to turn too soon. He really didn't show it too well in this video, but he does look for those barrels and he wants to turn them.
I will need to work on "checking" him before the turn. I also don't want to jump up to a bigger bit if I do not need to. I'm not trying to throw him to the wolves, but at the same time I am trying to give him freedom to figure it out on his own. Which DID work on Saturday. Didn't work yesterday (Monday).
I know his head shaking was the result of the "uh-oh we missed the turn" and me being on his face trying to get it. Another reason why I do try to just leave him alone and give him the freedom to figure it out. I used to give him a lot of inside leg and BEND as we came into the pocket, but then I felt like he started to ignore my inside leg because it didn't mean as much to him to move away from it. Unless I was doing something wrong there. I was using my outside leg, as you can see in the video, to ask him to come around the turn but it wasn't helping by that point. | |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | I'd like to see a little more bend and nose coming to the barrel. Shape and check him before the barrel and then do more of an Ed Wright style with your hands. He's entirely too much on his front end and can't make those turns. | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I just watched the first run, and on the backside of the second, I didn't see your outside leg in contact with his side.
I train all my colts the same way. I prepare them for success, I don't worry about turning too soon until they do turn too soon, but my horses should do exactly what I ask.
When I go into my barrel, when their nose gets to the barrel, I stop them at the beginning, then as they progress I shorten their stride, at this same time, I am using my inside leg to shape them, it is more calf pressure then anything. Then I am 3/4 away around the barrel I move my inside hand closer to the barrel to finish the turn, and at the same time I apply my outside leg. | |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Total side note --> Just found out that I got 4th in the 3D on Saturday with his GOOD run he had! Super excited about that especially since I thought there was no way we place (hence why I headed for home).
HammerTime: I have one of the Wright's books at home, but can you explain what you mean about an Ed Wright style with my hands?
Cheryl: On the slow motion, I first bumped him at 2:22 with my outside leg. Then again at 2:25. Then my leg got out of position, because the rest of me was all out of position. Was able to bump him again at 2:28
He has turned too soon in the past. So I guess that's why I concern myself with it. When I first started him I was stopping before the barrels. One of my videos I posted on here for critique last year, everyone told me to stop doing that because he's too ratey for it and I need to keep him moving instead.  I'm just trying to figure him out.
Thank you both for the feedback.
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 Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
Location: Sperry, OK | Instead of stopping before each barrel in your slow work, just transition down to the next lower gate. If you are trotting, at your rate point, transition to a walk, if you a loping, transition to a trot.. this will teach him to collect up and shorten his stride for the turn.
Edited by ACEINTHEHOLE 2014-05-27 12:45 PM
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | I was there and watched your first run (from a second barrel view), didn't get to stay for the second run, but from what I observed your horse is still sore.
On this video he is running by the first a step and then comes off the back side of the turn...almost fades back to the timer. On the second he doesn't want to keep that hind end engaged and driving up and forward around the turn, would rather be a little front endy and again not keep that hind end engaged. Then when he drives off he swaps leads and cross fires all the way to the third, which doesnt put him in the correct body position to even turn.
Also, when I watched you walk him out of the arena after his first run I noticed he was off on his right hind.
I think your horse is super cool and hope you can get it figured out.
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| r_beau - 2014-05-27 11:20 AM
Total side note --> Just found out that I got 4th in the 3D on Saturday with his GOOD run he had! Super excited about that especially since I thought there was no way we place (hence why I headed for home).
HammerTime: I have one of the Wright's books at home, but can you explain what you mean about an Ed Wright style with my hands?
Cheryl: On the slow motion, I first bumped him at 2:22 with my outside leg. Then again at 2:25. Then my leg got out of position, because the rest of me was all out of position. Was able to bump him again at 2:28
He has turned too soon in the past. So I guess that's why I concern myself with it. When I first started him I was stopping before the barrels. One of my videos I posted on here for critique last year, everyone told me to stop doing that because he's too ratey for it and I need to keep him moving instead. I'm just trying to figure him out.
Thank you both for the feedback.
I honestly couldn't watch past the 30 second mark, that horse is fighting you. You are really pulling on that poor horses mouth and not helping him.
The only reasons why horses fight people are soreness issues, and training issues.
The last time you posted soreness issues were brought up, they have also been brought up again by someone who has seen the horse in real life.
My suggestion get a different vet, one that is not bias, does not know the history and spend the money to get the horse sound.
Or retire the horse and get a different one. | |
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 Gotta Have a Gray
Posts: 899
Location: Tex. Panhandle | If he were mine, we would be doing fence work and roll backs. For several reasons. 1. to help him fire out of his barrels (looked like he stepped off/out on first, not so bad on 2nd) and to help make sure you as the rider are sitting at your pocket and cueing him to turn. Will also majorly help with keeping your hands down and getting your outside leg in him.
Have you tried talking to him at your pockets? Both of mine work so much better when I talk to them.
Also really watch your hand position. It looks like you are pulling your arm back towards you. All that does is stiffen them up, causes them to throw their nose and not finish turns. Looks like he is pretty tolerant, but I do think it is affecting him.
Good luck!! I know how frustrating it can be, but keep trying and you WILL get it. Remember everyone has good days and bad. Shake the bad off and keep working | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
| Is this the first horse you have started on the pattern? Almost looks like you are use to riding season older horses who know what they are doing. I would ride with two hands around the barrels for awhile. It will help you stay off his face and keep him squared up around the barrels. Looks like he might be more of roll back style horse instead of super bending. Give him a chance to take a step passed each barrel, some horses run faster with more room. | |
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