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 Go For It!
   
Location: Texas | For all you guys that are running in the smaller pens to closed gates...
I have a question for you... Would you rather run a smaller pattern and have a longer stopping distance? And would it matter to you if the pattern was "balanced" (example: 60' between 1 & 2 and 75' to the 3rd barrel) or would you prefer more run to the third (say, 100') if the arena was long enough?
I really need some input from you guys regarding what you would consider to be the biggest problem in the smaller pens. Not enough run? Not enough stopping distance? Not enough room between the barrels and the fences? Etc...
Thanks in advance! |
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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
 
Location: Kansas | grinandbareit - 2014-11-10 10:46 PM For all you guys that are running in the smaller pens to closed gates... I have a question for you... Would you rather run a smaller pattern and have a longer stopping distance? And would it matter to you if the pattern was "balanced" (example: 60' between 1 & 2 and 75' to the 3rd barrel) or would you prefer more run to the third (say, 100') if the arena was long enough? I really need some input from you guys regarding what you would consider to be the biggest problem in the smaller pens. Not enough run? Not enough stopping distance? Not enough room between the barrels and the fences? Etc... Thanks in advance!
I want room to stop safely. I've run at Denison Iowa's tiny indoor the past 4 years for IRA Finals and each year they set it up a little differently, but I don't think we've ever had more than 45 feet of stopping distance and every year someone about crashes the gate. IMO, 45 feet is the absolute minimum stopping distance that anyone should set up. I could care less about how you balance distance between 1 & 2 and between 2 & 3 as long as we can get around it safely and stop without crashing the fence or gate at the end.
From what I've heard through the past couple of years from barrel racers, I would say that stopping distance and utilizing the arena space are the biggest concerns with patterns, and utilizing the space is more of a concern in the wide open outdoor pens than in little ones where you don't have as many options. We'd rather run a 12.8 and have 45 feet to stop than a 13.0 and only have 40. It's just safer. I stated my dad's theory on distance off the fences on the other thread - 17 feet off the fence is the minimum unless you really enjoy setting up knocked over barrels. lol. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | Not enough stopping distance. |
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 I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | I don't like any pen that doesn't have enough stopping distance. Not good on the horse or the rider. More often than not, you have to turn off, which I don't like at all. That's when injuries occur. A good way for the horse to fall or the rider to get launched over the fence. |
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Go For It!
Location: Texas |
What I'm thinking about doing is setting up an additional pattern specifically for the smaller arenas with closed gates. The big problem I'm hearing is that the girls who run to open gates want bigger patterns - but that just isn't possible in the smaller arenas where there is no alley and you're running back to that closed gate or a bucking chute. I'm finding that most people could care less whether or not the pattern is balanced to the third.
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 Regular
Posts: 74
Location: North Pole | A nice stopping distance! Our local indoor pen has hardly ANY room to stop: maybe 30 feet? My giant guy can't get past a lope in that pen safely. It is probably a 12 second pattern, but due to the confines of the arena and the inability to actually RUN your horse, a fast time is in the high 13 to low 14 range. |
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Go For It!
Location: Texas | Here is the new measurements… Are you guys feeling better about the 50' recommendation? See pattern D...
The following measurements are in the center of the barrel for ease of placement and explanation.
Standard Patterns for Barrel Racing
Arena size… 150' X 250' or larger (patterns A - C will fit this arena)
120' X 200' or larger (patterns B - C will fit this arena)
110' X 200' or larger (patterns B - D will fit this arena)
100' X 200' or larger (pattern D will fit this arena)
75' X 125' or larger (MINI -Mini patterns may be set in any arena)
Pattern A: Current WPRA standard pattern - 90' between first and second barrel, 105' between barrels 1 & 3 and 2 & 3, 60' from timer line to barrel 1 & 2. When using a closed gate or side entry gate a minimum of 75' between timer line and fence, chutes, or exit gate is recommended.
Pattern B: 80' between first and second barrel, 95' between barrels 1 & 3 and 2 & 3, 50' from timer line to barrels 1 & 2. When using a closed gate or side entry gate a minimum of 50' from the timer line to the fence, chutes or exit gate is recommended.
Pattern C: 70' between first and second barrel, 85' between barrels 1 & 3 and 2 & 3, 40' from timer line to barrels 1 & 2. When using a closed or side entry gate a minimum of 50' from the timer line to the fence, chutes or exit gate is recommended.
Pattern D: THIS PATTERN IS RECOMMENDED FOR THE SMALLER VENUES WITH A CLOSED OR SIDE ENTRY GATE… 65' between first and second barrel, 80' between barrels 1 & 3 and 2 & 3, 30' from timer line to barrels 1 & 2. When using a closed or side gate entry a minimum of 50' from the timer line to the fence, chutes or exit gate is recommended.
The Mini: 45' between first and second barrel, 65' between barrels 1 & 3 and 2 & 3, 25' from timer line to barrels 1 & 2. A closed gate is not recommended for this pattern in arenas that have a floor length of 150' or less.
SUGGESTED SAFETY REQUIREMENTS
BARRELS 1 AND 2 SHOULD ALWAYS BE PLACED A MINIMUM OF 15 FEET FROM ARENA WALLS AND FENCES, WITH 20 FEET BEING THE IDEAL… BARREL 3 SHOULD BE A MINIMUM OF 25 FEET FROM THE BACK ARENA FENCE OR WALL, IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.
IMPORTANT…
PLEASE CONSIDER THE DISTANCE THAT IT TAKES TO STOP A HORSE, RUNNING AT FULL SPEED, FROM THE 3RD BARREL TO THE TIMER LINE. THE SUGGESTIONS LISTED BETWEEN THE TIMER LINE AND THE FENCE, CHUTES OR EXIT GATE ARE "MINIMUM" REQUIREMENTS AND SHOULD BE ADJUSTED TO LONGER DISTANCES IF THE ARENA LENGTH WILL ALLOW IT.
When posting results be sure to include the pattern letter followed by CG or SG for a closed or side gate entry/exit.
Edited by grinandbareit 2014-11-11 1:06 AM
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Go For It!
Location: Texas | rodeowithjoker - 2014-11-10 10:58 PM
grinandbareit - 2014-11-10 10:46 PM For all you guys that are running in the smaller pens to closed gates... I have a question for you... Would you rather run a smaller pattern and have a longer stopping distance? And would it matter to you if the pattern was "balanced" (example: 60' between 1 & 2 and 75' to the 3rd barrel) or would you prefer more run to the third (say, 100') if the arena was long enough? I really need some input from you guys regarding what you would consider to be the biggest problem in the smaller pens. Not enough run? Not enough stopping distance? Not enough room between the barrels and the fences? Etc... Thanks in advance!
I want room to stop safely. I've run at Denison Iowa's tiny indoor the past 4 years for IRA Finals and each year they set it up a little differently, but I don't think we've ever had more than 45 feet of stopping distance and every year someone about crashes the gate. IMO, 45 feet is the absolute minimum stopping distance that anyone should set up. I could care less about how you balance distance between 1 & 2 and between 2 & 3 as long as we can get around it safely and stop without crashing the fence or gate at the end.
From what I've heard through the past couple of years from barrel racers, I would say that stopping distance and utilizing the arena space are the biggest concerns with patterns, and utilizing the space is more of a concern in the wide open outdoor pens than in little ones where you don't have as many options. We'd rather run a 12.8 and have 45 feet to stop than a 13.0 and only have 40. It's just safer. I stated my dad's theory on distance off the fences on the other thread - 17 feet off the fence is the minimum unless you really enjoy setting up knocked over barrels. lol.
RWJ, do you know the arena dimensions at the pen in Denison? I tried to look it up online, but I'm not sure what the name of the venue is. |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
Location: In my own world | One of the indoors close to me doesn't have enough room between the timer and gate to even do a circle. It's like 15 ft. I've only exibitioned there. No way u could run full tilt to the timer and stop |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | grinandbareit - 2014-11-11 1:11 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-11-10 10:58 PM grinandbareit - 2014-11-10 10:46 PM For all you guys that are running in the smaller pens to closed gates... I have a question for you... Would you rather run a smaller pattern and have a longer stopping distance? And would it matter to you if the pattern was "balanced" (example: 60' between 1 & 2 and 75' to the 3rd barrel) or would you prefer more run to the third (say, 100') if the arena was long enough? I really need some input from you guys regarding what you would consider to be the biggest problem in the smaller pens. Not enough run? Not enough stopping distance? Not enough room between the barrels and the fences? Etc... Thanks in advance! I want room to stop safely. I've run at Denison Iowa's tiny indoor the past 4 years for IRA Finals and each year they set it up a little differently, but I don't think we've ever had more than 45 feet of stopping distance and every year someone about crashes the gate. IMO, 45 feet is the absolute minimum stopping distance that anyone should set up. I could care less about how you balance distance between 1 & 2 and between 2 & 3 as long as we can get around it safely and stop without crashing the fence or gate at the end.
From what I've heard through the past couple of years from barrel racers, I would say that stopping distance and utilizing the arena space are the biggest concerns with patterns, and utilizing the space is more of a concern in the wide open outdoor pens than in little ones where you don't have as many options. We'd rather run a 12.8 and have 45 feet to stop than a 13.0 and only have 40. It's just safer. I stated my dad's theory on distance off the fences on the other thread - 17 feet off the fence is the minimum unless you really enjoy setting up knocked over barrels. lol. RWJ, do you know the arena dimensions at the pen in Denison? I tried to look it up online, but I'm not sure what the name of the venue is.
It's tiny. The building is only 100 feet wide and I'm not sure how long, but they put a set of bleachers in on one side, bucking chutes & one row of stock pens at the south end so our arena space at Finals is a lot smaller.
It's the Western Iowa Expo Center on the Crawford County Fairgrounds but I can't find dimensions anywhere online. I know I found them once, but not this morning.
Here's a video of my very first run in there. It shows the space they're working with pretty well. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKbooLOKf_Y |
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Go For It!
Location: Texas | rodeowithjoker - 2014-11-11 9:01 AM
grinandbareit - 2014-11-11 1:11 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-11-10 10:58 PM grinandbareit - 2014-11-10 10:46 PM For all you guys that are running in the smaller pens to closed gates... I have a question for you... Would you rather run a smaller pattern and have a longer stopping distance? And would it matter to you if the pattern was "balanced" (example: 60' between 1 & 2 and 75' to the 3rd barrel) or would you prefer more run to the third (say, 100') if the arena was long enough? I really need some input from you guys regarding what you would consider to be the biggest problem in the smaller pens. Not enough run? Not enough stopping distance? Not enough room between the barrels and the fences? Etc... Thanks in advance! I want room to stop safely. I've run at Denison Iowa's tiny indoor the past 4 years for IRA Finals and each year they set it up a little differently, but I don't think we've ever had more than 45 feet of stopping distance and every year someone about crashes the gate. IMO, 45 feet is the absolute minimum stopping distance that anyone should set up. I could care less about how you balance distance between 1 & 2 and between 2 & 3 as long as we can get around it safely and stop without crashing the fence or gate at the end.
From what I've heard through the past couple of years from barrel racers, I would say that stopping distance and utilizing the arena space are the biggest concerns with patterns, and utilizing the space is more of a concern in the wide open outdoor pens than in little ones where you don't have as many options. We'd rather run a 12.8 and have 45 feet to stop than a 13.0 and only have 40. It's just safer. I stated my dad's theory on distance off the fences on the other thread - 17 feet off the fence is the minimum unless you really enjoy setting up knocked over barrels. lol. RWJ, do you know the arena dimensions at the pen in Denison? I tried to look it up online, but I'm not sure what the name of the venue is.
It's the Western Iowa Expo Center on the Crawford County Fairgrounds but I can't find dimensions anywhere online. I know I found them once, but not this morning.
Here's a video of my very first run in there. It shows the space they're working with pretty well. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKbooLOKf_Y
Wow! That is tight… Why don't they set up some panels so there is at least a small alleyway? It looks like there would be enough room. You need to email them a copy of these standards!
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | Setting up an alley would be great! For the arena we are riding in now, it is the stripping chute area for the team ropers where 5 horses wait their turn, it is TIGHT and confining-there is plenty of room to make a larger holding area AND a very good distance to stop after the time line-thanks for the idea! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 933
Location: north dakota | I think stopping distance can be a problem. We run in the winter with a tiny pattern and there is a alley way in and out.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=beuL4DMUtes |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | grinandbareit - 2014-11-11 10:06 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-11-11 9:01 AM grinandbareit - 2014-11-11 1:11 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-11-10 10:58 PM grinandbareit - 2014-11-10 10:46 PM For all you guys that are running in the smaller pens to closed gates... I have a question for you... Would you rather run a smaller pattern and have a longer stopping distance? And would it matter to you if the pattern was "balanced" (example: 60' between 1 & 2 and 75' to the 3rd barrel) or would you prefer more run to the third (say, 100') if the arena was long enough? I really need some input from you guys regarding what you would consider to be the biggest problem in the smaller pens. Not enough run? Not enough stopping distance? Not enough room between the barrels and the fences? Etc... Thanks in advance! I want room to stop safely. I've run at Denison Iowa's tiny indoor the past 4 years for IRA Finals and each year they set it up a little differently, but I don't think we've ever had more than 45 feet of stopping distance and every year someone about crashes the gate. IMO, 45 feet is the absolute minimum stopping distance that anyone should set up. I could care less about how you balance distance between 1 & 2 and between 2 & 3 as long as we can get around it safely and stop without crashing the fence or gate at the end.
From what I've heard through the past couple of years from barrel racers, I would say that stopping distance and utilizing the arena space are the biggest concerns with patterns, and utilizing the space is more of a concern in the wide open outdoor pens than in little ones where you don't have as many options. We'd rather run a 12.8 and have 45 feet to stop than a 13.0 and only have 40. It's just safer. I stated my dad's theory on distance off the fences on the other thread - 17 feet off the fence is the minimum unless you really enjoy setting up knocked over barrels. lol. RWJ, do you know the arena dimensions at the pen in Denison? I tried to look it up online, but I'm not sure what the name of the venue is.
It's the Western Iowa Expo Center on the Crawford County Fairgrounds but I can't find dimensions anywhere online. I know I found them once, but not this morning.
Here's a video of my very first run in there. It shows the space they're working with pretty well. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKbooLOKf_Y Wow! That is tight… Why don't they set up some panels so there is at least a small alleyway? It looks like there would be enough room. You need to email them a copy of these standards!
I wish they'd run two panels across the back of the building just inside the overhead door and let us run back to the edge of the building just inside the concrete lip to stop. That 10 feet would make a big difference, though it would be kinda packed there from the ropers standing between the closed overhead door and the arena gates they use. The whole setup is a disaster and to be honest, the same girls & horses win most of the money up there every year. I've been 4 times, run 4 different horses and have yet to place in a round or the average. Every year I ask myself why I signed up for it again. |
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Go For It!
Location: Texas |
Wow that's another tiny arena... Is the alley offset? It looks likes it's further to the right barrel than to the left. Do you know the dimensions of that pen?
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  Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | Stopping distance. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 933
Location: north dakota | grinandbareit - 2014-11-11 6:14 PM
Wow that's another tiny arena... Is the alley offset? It looks likes it's further to the right barrel than to the left. Do you know the dimensions of that pen?
I'm actually not sure of the dimensions of the pen. I believe the alley lines up with the 3rd barrel. The arena is at NDSU in Fargo, ND and is one of the smaller arenas that I've seen barrels run in. The arena record there is 12.537 and was set by the same horse in this video last spring with her new owner. |
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Veteran
Posts: 276
| When I was the barrel director in college, I had to set the pattern in several small barns. I was usually always open for suggestions, but when it came to this issue, I always set the pattern with as much stopping distance as possible. If anyone complained about a smaller pattern, I told them, safety comes before preference of the pattern size. Especially at rodeos, the gate is usually right by the roping or bucking chutes, where everyone there stands all day long, packs the ground and makes it even more dangerous to stop. |
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