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Location: East of the Setting Sun | I have a strong suspicion that a producer is cheating. She has been known to not exactly be a straight shooter in the past. The amounts of the checks written dont always match up to the results posted. Its almost never a large difference but they are almost never the same amounts. She also has a close friend who always wins as least one check at every race. Now i know people can be lucky but placing in 18 out of 18 races seems ridiculously lucky. And the previous year was the same. Ive decided to no longer attend races she produces, but is it something I should just let go, move on, and just not attend her races? Or should I say something to the sanctioning clubs? I dont have any concrete proof, just speculation, but maybe put a bug in their ear to just keep it in mind? This is just kind of a " what would you do in thia sitution" thing. Not looking to start any fights, just seeing how others might react. Thanks! |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
 
| If you are 100% sure and have proof call her out in front of a bunch of peple so she cant BS her way through it by bashing you. |
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 The BHW Book Worm
Posts: 1768
| Bumping this for you |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I think it is wrong, but having experienced it first hand where I got cheated out of a saddle and the results were plain as day. They switched our averages. Complaining does no good, mostly because they are in it together. It is your word and lack of proof against theirs. |
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 Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | A picture is worth a thousand words. |
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Location: In my own little world | It sounds like you do have proof if the amount on the checks is different than th amount posted in results. Now mind you some programs round up or down to an even number but if it is off by more than that then by all means bring it up. It is your money the producer is playing with so bring it to their attention. You don't need to bring it up in front of a crowd but have a witness with you and approach them. Mistakes do happen so approach it as giving them the benefit of the dowbt and ask if there was a mistake made with the checks since they don't seem to match the results.
If the producer gets defensive then it probably isn't a race/series you want to be a part of anyway. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | Mistakes happen so if the amounts are off its possible that it's an honest mistake. If you're writing a lot of checks and don't have someone double checking, numbers can easily be switched around just because you're tired. If it was my cheque I'd call and ask what it's different the what is posted.
Now about the friend who's winning it really depends if she's cheating or having a really good run. I've had winning streaks where I've pulled a cheque whether my run was good run or bad it was just where the time landed me. I've also had times where I didn't place for long periods just because I kept falling in the crying hole.
To be honest if you are thinking that something is wrong my suggestion would be go and sit and record all of the announced/displayed times. If there a lot of discrepancies then you can bring it forward to the producer or sanctioning body.
If you feel that there is something going on your probably not the only one. If you've decided not to go to the event then it ends there for you. The sanctioning body probably won't do much about it unless more then one person comes forward or there is proof (times recorded) to back it up.
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Go back to the results and do your own math before confronting her. It's pretty easy to take a calculator to the added money + number of entries + entree fee - % withheld to get the total pool. Then use whatever governing body pay scale. Then you will know for sure. |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | One thing to consider. If the person doing the calculations is using their phone; you can have big problems. sometimes the phone doesn't clear right and previous memory is in your calculation. My students know to do each calculation 3 times when using thier phone. |
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Location: East of the Setting Sun | I know mistakes can be made. However, this isnt a one time deal. Its happened many times. People have asked her why and always the same answer... "I dont know, Ill have to check." And it ends there. Sometimes its a few dollars and change difference.. other times $50 difference. I could see some mistakes happening with a big race with lots of entries but these races rarely get over 30 people on a good day. I dont think people say anything because they might not even see the difference or they think, oh it must be a typo plus the amounts arent that different. Also, she is the only game in town and no one wants to make waves. As for her friend... again with a small amount of entries I totally get that she could be lucky. She runs multiple horses and runs open and novice. So she could hypothetically win often . However, this same thing happen last year when she didnt run as many horses. But from spring to summer this year in 15 races she placed in every one, won 36 checks. Almost always winning the D ( if not a couple D's) whether in be 1,2,3 or 4 and also picking up one or more checks in the novice. They totalled close to $2000. Again these races are rarely over 30 entries (and some of these were) and all but maybe two were only $100 added races. A couple people have kind of put this together. And have speculated that maybe the friend doesnt have to pay fees. Perhaps maybe the time only money is used to cover her. Then whatever she wins, her and producer split? The producer works in the timer booth and either announces or reads times and maybe adjusts the times to put her friend in the money. This of course, is only what several people have come up with, to make sense of some of the shady things that seem to happen often.
Edited by Smokin 3 2015-01-01 10:25 AM
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 Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | Smokin 3 - 2015-01-01 10:22 AM I know mistakes can be made. However, this isnt a one time deal. Its happened many times. People have asked her why and always the same answer... "I dont know, Ill have to check." And it ends there. Sometimes its a few dollars and change difference.. other times $50 difference. I could see some mistakes happening with a big race with lots of entries but these races rarely get over 30 people on a good day. I dont think people say anything because they might not even see the difference or they think, oh it must be a typo plus the amounts arent that different. Also, she is the only game in town and no one wants to make waves. As for her friend... again with a small amount of entries I totally get that she could be lucky. She runs multiple horses and runs open and novice. So she could hypothetically win often . However, this same thing happen last year when she didnt run as many horses. But from spring to summer this year in 15 races she placed in every one, won 36 checks. Almost always winning the D ( if not a couple D's) whether in be 1,2,3 or 4 and also picking up one or more checks in the novice. They totalled close to $2000. Again these races are rarely over 30 entries (and some of these were) and all but maybe two were only $100 added races. A couple people have kind of put this together. And have speculated that maybe the friend doesnt have to pay fees. Perhaps maybe the time only money is used to cover her. Then whatever she wins, her and producer split? The producer works in the timer booth and either announces or reads times and maybe adjusts the times to put her friend in the money. This of course, is only what several people have come up with, to make sense of some of the shady things that seem to happen often.
A boycott of this producer's event would get his/her attention sooner than later. Even with said producer 'being the only game in town'.
Or especially since they are the only game in town...............................
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I would get your stuff together and the other riders. Id schedule a meeting or confront her with this. Im sorry but a lil bit adds up and if she is indeed doing it its wrong and people that do that need fired. but make sure you are certain its happening and have others as well.. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| I have a friend that has won a check in the 3D at every show she has entered for years. She is just that consistent. Big show, little show, she is gonna get a check in 3D. |
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