|
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
  
| RnRJack - 2015-02-27 6:53 PM
Look, I'm no dummy, don't you think the first thing I ever noticed was her tail ringing? You have no idea how much money I have spent to check that mare and make sure she's strong and sound. She's had a full bet check when I bought her and other issues I addressed, this is why I didn't want to post the video. Plus it's easy to point things out when you're not the one doing it yourself.
I understand I have a lot to learn still but I've come this far and I'm not stopping now, so thank you to those of you who have helped and encouraged and pointed out things I need to change about my riding.
A vet check is only as good as the person doing it.
The vet check is also only as good as that moment, if you have had the horse for 6 months and has been using her, if you were to check her now things may be different.
I also know people who have vet checked horses clean then after 3 months of fitting the horse up the horse can't pass a vet check to save their life.
I pay special attention to my horses, the vet is the first person I go to not chiro, and when chiro checks my horses out, they generally don't have to be adjusted.
Since this is a mare yes she may be sound, but she is uncomfortable, she is wringing her tail, she may be wind sucking, and may need sutured closed (sorry I can't remember the name)
Grin and bear it, I do the same thing as you, if my horse does something wrong once, I reflect back on what I am doing, seat, hands, and legs. I have spent countless nights reviewing runs on video and in my head to figure a horse out.
I do find there are quite a few people who actually can't tell their horse is sore till they are head bobbing lame, I don't know the op, and I am not making any assumptions one way or another. I also had my horses humble me, as there were days I thought it was a training issue, or a behaviour issue, when it actually was a medical issue. Nobody knows everything, especially on the forum, you know your horses the best, you can pick and choose what you listen to.
As for watching the rider in the video I watched, the image was too far away, and too blurry for me to make and comments.
From looking at the two barrel pictures, it looks like she is front end heavy, not driving from the hind end, again this can be a sign on hock problems, or training problems.
Your horse may be rating herself for the barrels, but she may be doing it incorrectly, I had one do this, I showed Ed wright a video, and immediately said your horse is dumping on his front end, after that problem was fixed, his times sped up.
As for bits, they are tools, from the one picture when you are pulling on the horse, both the direct and indirect rein are tight, personally I don't like doing that at that point at the barrel as it can cause a horse to slow down, evade the bit, or ignore it.
I also believe a person can never be light enough on the bit, this is something I continually work with.
As for a bit, I do have one horse who is a little front endy, I spoke to dutton bits in December, he suggested trying his gag bridle. My horse is no longer front endy (she actually conformationally is front end heavy), you may try this, but this bit you do need to feel your horse, as you can pull forever without it stopping. | |
| | |
 Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | I've often wondered about the suturing myself that is one thing I've never done nor had I heard of it until a friend of mine did it to her mare.
If I start injecting hocks now isn't that something that you continually have to do until they can't be injected anymore?
And as far as ovaries go, she pretty much acts the same when she comes in season then she does at any other given day.
I know I'm not the perfect rider like I said before I used to have an easy going take care of me super honest gelding I ran for years, this is my step up horse only I can't afford to buy a step up horse so I got a 2 year old and trained her myself. We obviously have a long road ahead of us and im willing to do anything I can do improve.
Thanks for the advice, I'll check into some of those things | |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | Here is my other horse. May as well take the cat out of the bag and ahow you all
She's young as well and hasn't been on the pattern long but I feel like I can ride her much much better because she's smoother in her turns.
Am I doing the same things on both horses?
http://youtu.be/M3jL_wQbIrQ
http://youtu.be/pEAxwcHuj1E
Edited by RnRJack 2015-02-27 9:41 PM
| |
| | |
 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | So answer this....if you don't inject her hocks (if she truly needs injections) how long do you think she will last?? I don't think you caused this but if the horse is hurting you sure aren't helping her. From experience with making bad decisions, don't ruin a good horse because of your preconceived ideas. If you believe that once you inject you always will or that it has some detriment to your horse you really need to do some research and visit with several vets. I will take an injected horse any day over a gate fighting sour sob. Maybe she just needs a little time off. | |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | LMS - 2015-02-27 9:38 PM
So answer this....if you don't inject her hocks (if she truly needs injections) how long do you think she will last?? I don't think you caused this but if the horse is hurting you sure aren't helping her. From experience with making bad decisions, don't ruin a good horse because of your preconceived ideas. If you believe that once you inject you always will or that it has some detriment to your horse you really need to do some research and visit with several vets. I will take an injected horse any day over a gate fighting sour sob. Maybe she just needs a little time off.
Wait a minute here, it's not a preconceived idea, I have injected hocks before when it was absoutely necessary. I just feel like a lot of issues are constantly blamed on hocks when there are other underlining issues going on.
I really don't feel like my 4 year old needs her hocks injected BUT I'm not opposed to doing it if it's what she needs to feel better, as I have had cortizone injections in my wrist after breaking it 3 times.
I just don't want to start something that's unnecessary or just do it to do it | |
| | |
Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | Ok I'm done annoying you, I wish you well with your horse. I really did try to help even though you may not see that. | |
| | |
 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 304
Location: Up and over to the right | Ok I'll give it a go -
In the second video coming out of the 1st barrel you toppled behind your horse and when she tried to get her hind end underneath to power herself forward you bumped her in the mouth, she leapt forward because you are keeping her off balance.
Going into second you leaned forward way too early, again throwing the mare off balance. Again around the back she loses balance because you are being left behind. Same with third.
You are being bounced all over the place and it's not the fault of the mare. You need to do some core strengthening exercises and unlock your hips so you aren't getting left behind and then jarring her back as she's trying to gain speed coming out of the barrels.
I looked at a few other videos and there is a lot of bouncing going on. Your hands aren't disconnected from your body so every time you bounce, your hand catch her in the mouth, that would cause evasion FAST. Your saddle bounces on her back as well, tighten that rear cinch when you get on!
My recommendation is get off barrels for a while and find yourself a trainer of any discipline (dressage/wp/hunter jumper even) to work on your seat and hands. Your mare is 4… why push her when you know things aren't working out between you two at the moment. | |
| | |
Worlds Greatest Laugh
Location: North Dakota | ChasingCans04 - 2015-02-28 6:52 AM
Ok I'll give it a go -
In the second video coming out of the 1st barrel you toppled behind your horse and when she tried to get her hind end underneath to power herself forward you bumped her in the mouth, she leapt forward because you are keeping her off balance.
Going into second you leaned forward way too early, again throwing the mare off balance. Again around the back she loses balance because you are being left behind. Same with third.
You are being bounced all over the place and it's not the fault of the mare. You need to do some core strengthening exercises and unlock your hips so you aren't getting left behind and then jarring her back as she's trying to gain speed coming out of the barrels.
I looked at a few other videos and there is a lot of bouncing going on. Your hands aren't disconnected from your body so every time you bounce, your hand catch her in the mouth, that would cause evasion FAST. Your saddle bounces on her back as well, tighten that rear cinch when you get on!
My recommendation is get off barrels for a while and find yourself a trainer of any discipline (dressage/wp/hunter jumper even) to work on your seat and hands. Your mare is 4… why push her when you know things aren't working out between you two at the moment.
I agree about getting off barrels for some time and going back to more foundation work for both you and the horse. As you are working with a qualified instructor, you will soon discover whether your mare is hock sore, body sore, needs a caslicks or any of the other recommendations. Its a win win. Believe me, as you progress through simple tasks, the soreness will present itself big time and you wont have to question. Sometimes when they arent stitched up, it presents as a soreness.
I think with a little instruction you can do this and have alot of fun and success. :)
| |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 1611
| Ignore my other post...she is not any of he things I orhonally thought. Please try the recommendations given you mare is hurting somewhere, the tail wringing is only one clue and she might just be gritty but her avoiding the bit and hopping around the barrels is the biggest lameness indicators. You might need to travel a good distance to find a vet that can spot the problem. | |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | Did anyone even watch the other video I posted of my other mare???? I feel like my little red horse is not as smooth and I can't sit on her as well, for whatever reason I can ride my roan mare much better and I don't feel like I bounce at all. I may not have the best seat but I have very strong legs and I ride 4-6 days a week. I grew up riding hunter jumper, I've always rode my forward (in my two point) I quit that and took dressage lessons a few years ago which helped my seat a lot BuT to me it's way different running around barrelas then it is doing slow dressage work and at work.
Bilblafarm have you ever ran barrels??? Have your dressage skills helped you??
Im not skinny but I'm not fat and im very strong, I'm working as hard as I can to loose more weight and get in better shape. I really feel like ya'll have picked me apart, guess that's what I get but I am only a weekend warrior out to have fun and I'm advancing as much as I can.
And my other videos are pretty old, I am looking into a performance vet a few hours from me to look my horse up and down. Thanks everyone.
| |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | Oh and is there anything anyone sees that im doing right or am I worlds worst barrel racer lol
Edited by RnRJack 2015-02-28 12:03 PM
| |
| | |
  Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | Don't beat yourself up. You are doing the right thing by asking for help. Everyone sees things different, there are some really great people here giving you excellent advice. I know it's hard not to but don't take it personal, they're truly trying to help. 
I'm going to throw something out there that I didn't see anyone else mention....try a different saddle. I watched the video's of both horses & they're both throwing you behind as you come out of the barrel. It just looks like you have no room to move in the saddle you are using so it either throws you forward or out the back, not allowing you to stay centered. I'm 125 lbs and prefer to ride a 15" saddle, anything smaller & I feel trapped. I bought a 14" a few years ago because it was really comfy & I figured the small seat would be nice as I was starting a lot of colts at the time & I figured it'd "hold' me in place....WRONG!!!! I got piled out of that saddle repeatedly on spooks & bucks that I would have had no issue riding in my bigger seated saddles. But with the small seat I'd hit the cantle once or twice & get launched. | |
| | |
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| For the injecting hocks.
Yes once you start injecting, you will continue to inject, because you wouldn't be injecting unless they need it.
Personally I don't inject hocks, I go straight to surgery especially with young horses, cost analysis if my horse is still running at 12-15, the surgery is way cheaper then injecting hocks.
Injections generally only last 3 months, people who say they did it once, are ignoring their horses communication, lying, or got very lucky when they started injecting they were almost finished fusing.
I re watched the video, of the 4 yr old, and to me she looks sore in the hind end. I would be curious to see where chiro keeps adjusting as this is also a tell tale sign if they are in pain, lower back, hips, and pelvis generally mean hind end pain and they are compensating therefore throwing themselves out.
Withers, saddle fit, etc.
I watched you on the other horse, the video is too far away for me to say anything definite, but I do see you do get left behind.
You say the 4 yr old is harder to ride, is she smaller, and more compact? If she is I find these horses have more instant acceleration then my longer horses. I had one horse who would leave his barrels so hard he would actually give me whiplash, he is a 1d horse, and his new owner can ride him better then me.
If she has the same build as the other, then she may be harder to ride or choppy due to pain, due to a training issue, or a balance issue.
As people have already said you may look at strengthening your core, planking works well, sit ups, legs ups, flipping a tractor tire over and over outside is the best if you have access. I know even from transitioning from colts, to fast horses, I have to work on my core every year.
Also there are a variety of saddles out there, some saddles will throw you more forward, if you can try a few different saddles different seat sizes and get a feel of what you like and don't like. A Martha Josey saddle may be one to try as these saddles seem to help people who are too far forward.
To me barrel racing is supposed to be fun, and training a barrel horse is time consuming and very humbling. If this is your first, you have done a good job so far, my suggestion do something else with her as well, mounted shooting, trail class, working cow. Also learn about your horses body, everyday I go over my horses with my eyes and hands even if I am not riding them to see if everything looks or feels the same, I also watch them walk, trot, run in the pasture, I look for signs of lameness my vet has told me to look for, you learn a lot from watching their behaviour in their natural environment.
Also do you have her on a supplement for joints? | |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | Great response and thank you Cheryl, and of course I'm getting left begind I've never rode two mares of this caliber, I'm clocking bottom of 2D and top of 3D on both mares in bigger shows, I may look like crap but I'm doing much better and learning to adjust to both horses. , I just made the transition from riding my trusty old gelding who was a solid 3/4D easy to ride horse to these two mares.
If they get any faster and leave me behind I'll be wearing a sissy seat soon
As far as her soreness I will call my vet monday and have a different chiropractor look at her this week and go from there.
I do lots of other things with my horses besides barrels, I only ever walk and trot the pattern at Home, I leave running for shows or timed exhibitions. We have cattle at the house, we work cows and amazingly I can rope (not posting anymore videos of my awesome skills sorry).
Oh and I started cross fit again but it's hard to do since I had a shoulder injury
I actually set up cavalettis as well as I feel like it helps my horses pick up their feet and we are in the middle of no where so we trail ride a LOT.
Edited by RnRJack 2015-02-28 6:09 PM
| |
| | |
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| RnRJack - 2015-02-28 6:06 PM
Great response and thank you Cheryl, and of course I'm getting left begind I've never rode two mares of this caliber, I'm clocking bottom of 2D and top of 3D on both mares in bigger shows, I may look like crap but I'm doing much better and learning to adjust to both horses. , I just made the transition from riding my trusty old gelding who was a solid 3/4D easy to ride horse to these two mares.
If they get any faster and leave me behind I'll be wearing a sissy seat soon
As far as her soreness I will call my vet monday and have a different chiropractor look at her this week and go from there.
I do lots of other things with my horses besides barrels, I only ever walk and trot the pattern at Home, I leave running for shows or timed exhibitions. We have cattle at the house, we work cows and amazingly I can rope (not posting anymore videos of my awesome skills sorry).
Oh and I started cross fit again but it's hard to do since I had a shoulder injury
I actually set up cavalettis as well as I feel like it helps my horses pick up their feet and we are in the middle of no where so we trail ride a LOT.
So what can you do at home to learn how to hustle up in the saddle.
Can you bring a steer into the arena or round pen and chase it around?
I find gymkhana events especially pole bending gets me up and hustling
I'll also put up pylons in funnels, etc and will run through those to work on my timing.
You will need to do high speed things at home to get the feel and timing as well.
Don't call yourself a crappy rider, focus on the positive, you said you have improved, great.
Instead of trying to change everything about you at once, work on one or two at a time, set realistic goals.
If you can find some YouTube Ed wright videos, he talks about soul in riding, and talks about moving your arms in rhythm of the horse, this will help you disengage your hands from your body. | |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | Well I say I'm improvong I think I am but I'm not in as great of shape as I ised to be, as I look at older pictures (I've had quite a few horses throughout the years) im a lot heavier then I was, guess I need to put cross fit at the top of my list again!!! Getting older sucks, since this thread is semi about me (lol) im going to share some of my previous pics and horses
This is my fillys first show when I first got her
This is an Eddie Stinson 3 year old
This is an old Jet Deck gelding who was only 14.2
This is skip a friends horse
This is ?Jake, my rugged lark/two eyed jack gelding who I accomplished everything on
This is my dash for cash gelding
And my doc bar mare im running niw
I've learned a lot from all these horses and I will continue to ride as many as I can and get better!!!!!
| |
| | |
 Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | Look like amazing pictures!!!!! | |
| |
| |
Folks on-line