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  Champ
Posts: 19623
   
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Just some information to make your judgements on. ALL horses are not created equal in any manner. Even in their mouth and their sensitivity there. I've never used a mule bit on a horse but I did have an appendix mare I broke and trained from day one that just wouldn't respond with a normal snaffle bit. She didn't like leverage bits or hackamores either. What I finally hung on her that she liked and responded well to was a twisted wire snaffle with a mouth piece of two wires wrapped that were the size of a #2 pencil lead. I mean small. That was something I could be very gentle with her and she would listen. I NEVER had to get rough with her to get her attention like I did in a regular bit I would have LOVED to use on her.
Her mother had the lightest most responsive mouth of any horse I've ever ridden. I ran her in next to nothing and barely touched her with it. But the daughter by a TB did NOT get that from her. If you have good hand and seat that you're not jerking or tearing on their mouth on the barrels then I have no problem with someone using any type of bit. I see many people running barrels who do NOT have good hands or seat. They are all over the place. That's cruel no matter what bit is in their mouth. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | OregonBR - 2015-08-20 1:58 PM I see many people running barrels who do NOT have good hands or seat. They are all over the place. That's cruel no matter what bit is in their mouth.
Amen to that |
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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| OregonBR - 2015-08-20 11:58 AM Just some information to make your judgements on. ALL horses are not created equal in any manner. Even in their mouth and their sensitivity there. I've never used a mule bit on a horse but I did have an appendix mare I broke and trained from day one that just wouldn't respond with a normal snaffle bit. She didn't like leverage bits or hackamores either. What I finally hung on her that she liked and responded well to was a twisted wire snaffle with a mouth piece of two wires wrapped that were the size of a #2 pencil lead. I mean small. That was something I could be very gentle with her and she would listen. I NEVER had to get rough with her to get her attention like I did in a regular bit I would have LOVED to use on her.
Her mother had the lightest most responsive mouth of any horse I've ever ridden. I ran her in next to nothing and barely touched her with it. But the daughter by a TB did NOT get that from her. If you have good hand and seat that you're not jerking or tearing on their mouth on the barrels then I have no problem with someone using any type of bit. I see many people running barrels who do NOT have good hands or seat. They are all over the place. That's cruel no matter what bit is in their mouth. True that not ALL horses are created equal, and with that being said, we can also say that not ALL trainers are created equal...
eta: I know the type of twisted wire bit you are talking about- it's not anything like a bike chain, there is no comparison there-
Edited by trickster j 2015-08-20 2:32 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
 
Location: Gainesville, TX | OregonBR - 2015-08-20 1:58 PM Just some information to make your judgements on. ALL horses are not created equal in any manner. Even in their mouth and their sensitivity there. I've never used a mule bit on a horse but I did have an appendix mare I broke and trained from day one that just wouldn't respond with a normal snaffle bit. She didn't like leverage bits or hackamores either. What I finally hung on her that she liked and responded well to was a twisted wire snaffle with a mouth piece of two wires wrapped that were the size of a #2 pencil lead. I mean small. That was something I could be very gentle with her and she would listen. I NEVER had to get rough with her to get her attention like I did in a regular bit I would have LOVED to use on her.
Her mother had the lightest most responsive mouth of any horse I've ever ridden. I ran her in next to nothing and barely touched her with it. But the daughter by a TB did NOT get that from her. If you have good hand and seat that you're not jerking or tearing on their mouth on the barrels then I have no problem with someone using any type of bit. I see many people running barrels who do NOT have good hands or seat. They are all over the place. That's cruel no matter what bit is in their mouth.
You are talking about something similar to this:
This is not a kind bit, fairly prone to pinch. But I would not argue with you putting it on a horse so hard. I can see some purpose to it.
But a bike chain bit or a screw bit:
Are much nastier with sharper edges that are MEANT to cut and poke. The double twisted snaffle would not be comfortable but you are going to have to pull or seesaw to create lacerations. There is no such thing as 'light hands' with a bike chain or screw bit. The horse can sit at the trailer with the **** thing on and cut their tongue simply by mouthing at it--no hands involved. Anything that automatically hurts their mouth without even riding should not be put in it. Heck even a war bonnet tie down only engages if the horse actually bumps their head up high enough or drops it to buck. The horse can give themselves some release. There is no release from sharp metal points on your tongue, palette and bars. |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | No. It was finer and not double. Double is less severe than a single. These never show up as live links. But this is as close as I could find. Mine has a simple O ring. I also have a mouthpiece with short shanks which is more severe yet. But all you have to do is touch it. http://www.smithbrothers.com/don-dodge-twisted-weld-wire-snaffle-bit/p/X3-010390/ |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | OregonBR - 2015-08-20 4:24 PM
No. It was finer and not double. Double is less severe than a single. These never show up as live links. Â But this is as close as I could find. Â Mine has a simple O ring. I also have a mouthpiece with short shanks which is more severe yet. Â But all you have to do is touch it. Â Â http://www.smithbrothers.com/don-dodge-twisted-weld-wire-snaffle-bit/p/X3-010390/
Still nowhere near as bad as the bike chain . . . |
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | OregonBR - 2015-08-20 4:24 PM
No. It was finer and not double. Double is less severe than a single. These never show up as live links. Â But this is as close as I could find. Â Mine has a simple O ring. I also have a mouthpiece with short shanks which is more severe yet. Â But all you have to do is touch it. Â Â http://www.smithbrothers.com/don-dodge-twisted-weld-wire-snaffle-bit/p/X3-010390/
Live link http://www.smithbrothers.com/don-dodge-twisted-weld-wire-snaffle-bi...
Bit...
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 bit.jpg (17KB - 219 downloads)
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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| komet. - 2015-08-20 4:10 PM OregonBR - 2015-08-20 4:24 PM No. It was finer and not double. Double is less severe than a single. These never show up as live links. But this is as close as I could find. Mine has a simple O ring. I also have a mouthpiece with short shanks which is more severe yet. But all you have to do is touch it. http://www.smithbrothers.com/don-dodge-twisted-weld-wire-snaffle-bit/p/X3-010390/ Live link http://www.smithbrothers.com/don-dodge-twisted-weld-wire-snaffle-bi... Bit...
This is the bit that Oregon has compared to the bike chain? |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| I don't think she was comparing the bits, just saying it was surprising what some horses tolerate that others won't. At least that's how I read her post. |
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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| GLP - 2015-08-20 6:11 PM I don't think she was comparing the bits, just saying it was surprising what some horses tolerate that others won't. At least that's how I read her post.
OK- thanks! I apparantly can't keep up with this thread!  |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| trickster j - 2015-08-20 10:21 PM
GLP - 2015-08-20 6:11 PM I don't think she was comparing the bits, just saying it was surprising what some horses tolerate that others won't. At least that's how I read her post.
OK- thanks! Â I apparantly can't keep up with this thread! Â Â
Isn't it interesting how different we perceive the same thing? I could be wrong in my interpretation. I think that is one of the things that makes this site so interesting. I know I have been misunderstood on here and also misunderstood other people, too, especially on a long thread like this one.  |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | OregonBR - 2015-08-20 2:24 PM
No. It was finer and not double. Double is less severe than a single. These never show up as live links. Â But this is as close as I could find. Â Mine has a simple O ring. I also have a mouthpiece with short shanks which is more severe yet. Â But all you have to do is touch it. Â Â http://www.smithbrothers.com/don-dodge-twisted-weld-wire-snaffle-bit/p/X3-010390/
A double twisted snaffle is MUCH more severe than a single twisted wire snaffle. |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | svincent - 2015-08-20 8:48 PM OregonBR - 2015-08-20 2:24 PM No. It was finer and not double. Double is less severe than a single. These never show up as live links. But this is as close as I could find. Mine has a simple O ring. I also have a mouthpiece with short shanks which is more severe yet. But all you have to do is touch it. http://www.smithbrothers.com/don-dodge-twisted-weld-wire-snaffle-bit/p/X3-010390/ A double twisted snaffle is MUCH more severe than a single twisted wire snaffle.
The more area a mouthpiece on a bit covers the less severe it is. That's why the thin mouthpiece on the snaffle I posted I consider more severe than the double twisted that was posted. It may be interpretation. I've never owned a double twisted wire. It seems right up the ally of a tom thumb; a bit that is poorly designed and doesn't have the effect I want. I've tried some bits on horses I thought they would like and they didn't. Yet other horses did. So it's partially trial and error. |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | OregonBR - 2015-08-21 8:48 AM
svincent - 2015-08-20 8:48 PM OregonBR - 2015-08-20 2:24 PM No. It was finer and not double. Double is less severe than a single. These never show up as live links. Â But this is as close as I could find. Â Mine has a simple O ring. I also have a mouthpiece with short shanks which is more severe yet. Â But all you have to do is touch it. Â Â http://www.smithbrothers.com/don-dodge-twisted-weld-wire-snaffle-bit/p/X3-010390/ A double twisted snaffle is MUCH more severe than a single twisted wire snaffle.
You're totally right about the double mouthpiece being poorly designed and misused. I've never ridden in one, and never plan to. Nothing about them does anything good for a horse.
I misunderstood your statement about the severity. I totally agree, all other things equal, the thin mouthpiece is harsher than a thick one. :) |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | if this is the best way you have to deal with a horse, I feel sorry for you. Let me rake this through your mouth and see what you won't do!
Edited by komet. 2015-08-23 5:18 PM
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | Bike chains go on bikes, not in horses mouths. There is absolutely no reason on this earth to use an abusive bit of this sort. If you think your horse, you are absolutely nobody ever has or ever will NEED this bit. Can some people use it as a crutch to make up for lack of training or riding skills? Absolutely. It is not possible to use one of these gently. They are by the nature of their construction, harsh, cruel bits. Show these to any English rider and you will be laughed out if their barn. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
| I had a horse about 40 years ago that had been mishandled before I bought him. Everyone recommended that I use different bits and they got tougher and tougher. The horse got worse and worse. He ran away with me one day and I got rid of him the next week. I learned a lot from that bad arse son of a gun. Not just about bits. The thing that I did learn about bits is that less is more. If I had taken the time (and had the knowledge) to start him over with a light bit, I would have had a top notch horse because he certainly had the ability. He did not fight the bits, he just did not respond to them. I am just passing along a little knowledge that I wish I had known back then.
Just a funny reflection here---- I was at Joseys up in the trophy room. I leaned back on the bench I was sitting on and my head hit an old bridle that Martha used to use. It had a bit with shanks that were about 8 inches long. I used to use the same bit way back when. I had to laugh because the older I have gotten the shorter shank I use. My main got to bit is a Jr Cowhorse and its shanks are about 3 inches long.
Less is more folks. |
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