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  Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7617
   
Location: Dubach, LA | Blake Russell - 2016-03-23 3:53 PM The primary proof would be the science behind DNA tests that demonstrate the point. However, most phenotypic traits are the result of a genetic x environment interaction. That is why identical twins can have the same breeding value while still having a few noticeable differences in phenotype. The cloned stallion is passing along only a genetic contribution which is also all that the original could pass along. The environment is the rest and varies from conception forward - that impacts individual performance but not breeding value. I apologize for jumping on this thread, but saw Clayton and hoped to catch up.
English please. Phenotypes are not genetic? I thought science had attributed many things to straight DNA - from obesity to addiction to height to sexual preference. Wrong?? |
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 Extreme Veteran
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Location: run2win land | I have also enjoyed this discussion. I was always suspicious of cloned stallions...were you getting the original or not so it seems there are small differences. I have two friends who bred mares to Clayton. One is a yearling and is quite the built little man. Build wise he reminds me of Scamper. The other hasnt foaled yet but this mama was a gritty super nice barrel mare. I hope both of them turn out great but it seems everytime you breed its a throw of the dice. I remember Scampers brother and he was a flop. |
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 Expert
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Location: Texas | Interesting reading these posts! I know the man Virgil Lawson, who owned Scampers Daddy. His son told me in a conversation that they were surprised at what he had gotten done because in his words "That Stud was no count". I also know the Mare's owners, Buddy and Jeri Draper also from Wetmore Colorado. They are as straight up people as they can be. I believe that Scamper was a production of environment. He was tough, gritty and had the right balance of speed and turn. He was a top dog in his day due to his consistance, and limited comparable competiton. I honestly don't believe that he would achieve the same record against the horses of today. He was a true Legand of his time.
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Veteran
Posts: 112
| rockette - 2016-03-23 1:52 PM
I haven't heard anything about Another Shot either.
I think I saw on facebook where he is with the Steinhoff's now? They have a handful of babies by him, I remember seeing Tanya post pictures often of a baby out of a mare she rode as a kid. |
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 Expert
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Location: Kansas | Blake Russell - 2016-03-23 2:53 PM
The primary proof would be the science behind DNA tests that demonstrate the point. However, most phenotypic traits are the result of a genetic x environment interaction. That is why identical twins can have the same breeding value while still having a few noticeable differences in phenotype. The cloned stallion is passing along only a genetic contribution which is also all that the original could pass along. The environment is the rest and varies from conception forward - that impacts individual performance but not breeding value. I apologize for jumping on this thread, but saw Clayton and hoped to catch up.
Don't apologize! I think we all value your input. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 788
| Cowjazz - 2016-03-23 9:19 PM
Interesting reading these posts! I know the man Virgil Lawson, who owned Scampers Daddy. His son told me in a conversation that they were surprised at what he had gotten done because in his words "That Stud was no count". I also know the Mare's owners, Buddy and Jeri Draper also from Wetmore Colorado. They are as straight up people as they can be. I believe that Scamper was a production of environment. He was tough, gritty and had the right balance of speed and turn. He was a top dog in his day due to his consistance, and limited comparable competiton. I honestly don't believe that he would achieve the same record against the horses of today. He was a true Legand of his time.
I have thought this exact thing to myself! I didnt want to throw that out there lol I know it will step on some peoples toes but its true! Today there is so many horses running that both of their parents were great barrel horses. Which makes the chance of that horse being even greater multiply.(dont remember the scientific terms) The competition today is really tough compared to what it was 20 or 30 years ago.  |
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"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10794
Location: Kansas | horsiace1025 - 2016-03-24 9:06 AM Cowjazz - 2016-03-23 9:19 PM Interesting reading these posts! I know the man Virgil Lawson, who owned Scampers Daddy. His son told me in a conversation that they were surprised at what he had gotten done because in his words "That Stud was no count". I also know the Mare's owners, Buddy and Jeri Draper also from Wetmore Colorado. They are as straight up people as they can be. I believe that Scamper was a production of environment. He was tough, gritty and had the right balance of speed and turn. He was a top dog in his day due to his consistance, and limited comparable competiton. I honestly don't believe that he would achieve the same record against the horses of today. He was a true Legand of his time.
I have thought this exact thing to myself! I didnt want to throw that out there lol I know it will step on some peoples toes but its true! Today there is so many horses running that both of their parents were great barrel horses. Which makes the chance of that horse being even greater multiply. (dont remember the scientific terms ) The competition today is really tough compared to what it was 20 or 30 years ago.
Started to post the same thing the other day but was afraid BHW would think I was diminishing Scamper which I would never do. Don't forget he was also carrying a youngster, weightwise always an advantage.
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