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 Expert
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| I was having a conversation with my vet about Pain and a horse's reaction to it. It was my understanding that a horse who had been in pain for quite a while had to kind of re learn that something DOESN'T hurt once the problem gets fixed. She was very confident that a horse will only react to pain if they have it in the moment. One of my horses had sore hocks, we fixed the issue. I just happened to mention that it might take a little time and a few runs for him to realize that they no longer hurt. SHe said No, that next time he runs there will be no pain and he will perform as if there is no pain. My field is psychology and basic classical conditioning tells me that if you pair a stimulus ( barrel racing) with Pain, the horse will LEARN that barrel racing causes pain. The way we fix this in humans is COUNTER conditioning. Pair the same painful stimulus with no pain and they get over it.
ANy opinions? I never have to work my finished horses, EVER, and would like to show up at the next race and enter up if the vets theory is correct. Or maybe I should do some work on the pattern to show my horse no pain. lol |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| It took over a year to find my guys issue. He would not work his left turn, whether it was his first or second barrel, he can go either direction. Finally find the issue, out a year to heal, bring him back and he works the left turn beautifully if it is his second barrel, will duck sometimes if it is his first but never miss a beat if I go to the right first. I firmly believe it is in his head. Mine are never worked on the pattern either but I would in this situation.
Edited by rodeomom3 2016-04-21 12:53 PM
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Expert
Posts: 5293
| rodeomom3 - 2016-04-21 10:50 AM
It took over a year to find my guys issue. He would not work his left turn, whether it was his first or second barrel, he can go either direction. Finally find the issue, out a year to heal, bring him back and he works the left turn beautifully if it is his second barrel, will duck sometimes if it is his first but never miss a beat if I go to the right first. I firmly believe it is in his head. Mine are never worked on the pattern either but I would in this situation.
Awesome, thats exactly what I was thinking. Its basic psychology to me! LOL
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
 
Location: 31 lengths farms | It took CC's body about 2 months to figure out and get used to her new normal after she had the bladder stone removed. When we first got her home she was still stretching to urinate several times and then not urinating, again, before we had gotten the go ahead for the surgery she was having to urinate several times a day very small amounts because with the big stone in there her bladder felt full. Then once her body figured it out she still got a little anxious when we would lope at first, again I'd bet because her brain and her body were expecting it to hurt..having a 2.5 inch stone bouncing along in your bladder can't be a whole lot of fun. That took her another 2 months or so to realize.
I know as a human and an ex gymnast that even long after you heal from something, you continue for a while to compensate because your brain is used to that ankle or knee hurting on a landing or a tumbling pass. YOu almost have to relearn the landings again. |
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| I agree with you. Once they associate pain with something they will continue anticipating that even when the pain is gone. For example; a racehorse will work on lasix before entering a race so the horse realizes that he wont bleed when he runs. |
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 Hawty & Nawty
Posts: 20424
| Given that horses have the flight or fight instinct, I would think if they've been ducking a barrel or acting snotty in the alley due to pain, then they've learned the behavior and would have to un-learn it. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Gives you a lot of faith in vets sometimes, huh? 
A horse isn't the brightest animal in the world but even the simplest of creatures learn to forecast stimulus based off of past experience. Sometimes a horse will never go back. This is my classic theory that more veterinarians could benefit from a little more time in the saddle. Anyone that has ever sored a horse up knows that "once bitten, twice shy" is in effect. |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | It is absolutely true that a horse will need to LEARN that something no longer hurts when it did before. They have a memory, and they learn things (good or bad) based on the responses they get (pain, pressure, etc).
Pure common sense!
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | I disagree with your vet. If this was a case a horse would never become head shy, or stay away from electric fencing, or learn not to tick off the herd boss. These are responses to pain and they remember.
I firmly believe if a horse has been in pain they have to learn that it's not going to hurt them. I've had lots of horses for training over the years where they have learned that something hurts when they do it so we have to fix the pain issue and then slowly bring them back so they know it doesn't hurt them.
If it was me I'd make one run at home just to let your horse know that his pain issue has been eliminated.
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Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | I guess I'm on the fence on this one. Say, they make their first run back pain free - isn't that the first lesson that it doesn't hurt? How many more lessons do they need? I highly doubt a year's worth.
I had a hot auto-waterer, horse wouldn't drink out of it because it shocked him. So, he would associate pain with the waterer. After we got it fixed, how long did it take for him to unlearn this association? Same day!
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Expert
Posts: 5293
| Thanks for all the responses, not to mention the differences in PERSONALITY from horse to horse or animal to animal. Some horses are sensitive and others are tough and stoic! LOL |
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Folks on-line