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 Expert
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Location: Texas | What is your pre and post race protocol for a horse that bleeds? What all do you give, how long before and/or after the race do you administer, which particular products do you use?
I am thinking:
Lasix - 3cc - 3 hours pre race
Ventipulmin - 3 cc - 1.5 hours pre race
Wind Aid or Air Power - 20-30cc (.5-1 oz) 30 minutes pre race
Electrolyte - 2 hours pre race & after cooled out post race (not sure which product, KER Race Recovery?)
Flair Nasel Strips
Any feedback & experiences with particular products, amounts & timing would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks |
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 Expert
Posts: 2335
Location: IL | following |
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Veteran
Posts: 112
| I would think you would want to use one or the other when it comes to ventipulmin and wind aid/power aid. Using both would be too much in my opinion based on what those items are used for. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 494
| Personally I don't know if I'd give both wind aid and Ventipulmin. I'd be concerned with have all that different stuff upsetting their stomach. Maybe a lower dose of wind aid, like 5cc if you decide to give it. I've taken that stuff before and the smallest dose clears you all out lol I see wind aid as more for a horse that has allergies or a cough rather than just a bleeder
Also, feed Electrolytes about 2 days before your weekend race/lasix use. So the body is prepared and has fully built up the electrolytes and hydration. Because your horse will pee the all the paste electrolytes you gave at the same time/day. Plus they are expensive!! I don't see a problem with supplementing with an additional paste maybe very early in the day or afterwards if you decide to not feed an Electrolyte that day.
I get a pelleted electrolyte from smartpak. Fairly cheap to keep them on it 24/7. I'll feed it Monday after I come home but if I don't go anywhere that coming weekend, depending on weather and exercise schedule, I'll pull them off.
I always give my horse a sip or 2 of water after I warm up.
Edited by epoh 2016-05-11 11:39 AM
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Expert
Posts: 2604
Location: Texas | My thinking on using both the ventipulmin and either the wind aid or air power product was that the ventipulmin is a deeper, bronchial dilator, opening up the bronchial in the lungs where the wind aid/air power products soothe the throat & trachia and open up the sinuses.
EOPH - what electrolyte products do you use? Looks like the KER Race Recovery was designed to work with Lasix. KER has done studies on what is excreted when a horse is on Lasix. But it is expensive at $11.45/tube.
Edited by TBone 2016-05-11 11:49 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 2013
Location: Piedmont, OK | For my bleeder I give an electrolyte the night before and the morning of at feeding time (which is In the Zone) in the hot summers. Then I use Lasix 3 hours out. The main thing with a bleeder is you want them in great shape and keep them in great shape. I also keep them on Animal Element Immune Key to help heal any damage to the lungs.
Edited by soonergirl98 2016-05-11 11:54 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 5290
| TBone - 2016-05-11 7:31 AM
What is your pre and post race protocol for a horse that bleeds? What all do you give, how long before and/or after the race do you administer, which particular products do you use?
I am thinking:
Lasix - 3cc - 3 hours pre race
Ventipulmin - 3 cc - 1.5 hours pre race
Wind Aid or Air Power - 20-30cc (.5-1 oz) 30 minutes pre race
Electrolyte - 2 hours pre race & after cooled out post race (not sure which product, KER Race Recovery?)
Flair Nasel Strips
Any feedback & experiences with particular products, amounts & timing would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
I would NOT give electrolytes BEFORE the race if running on Lasix. Since you have to take them off water, giving electrolytes with NO WATER can cause extreme dehydration. I would give electrolytes the day BEFORE the race to get them more hydrated before the lasix. Other than that your plan looks good. I asked a similar question last week when we thought one of mine was a bleeder. As it turns out , he is not.. |
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Expert
Posts: 2604
Location: Texas | VERY good info!!! Thanks for sharing. 
In The Zone does not appear to be an electrolyte. It looks to be more a GI coating & calming product.
Edited by TBone 2016-05-11 12:58 PM
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Regular
Posts: 56
| TBone - 2016-05-11 9:31 AM
What is your pre and post race protocol for a horse that bleeds? What all do you give, how long before and/or after the race do you administer, which particular products do you use?
I am thinking:
Lasix - 3cc - 3 hours pre race
Ventipulmin - 3 cc - 1.5 hours pre race
Wind Aid or Air Power - 20-30cc (.5-1 oz) 30 minutes pre race
Electrolyte - 2 hours pre race & after cooled out post race (not sure which product, KER Race Recovery?)
Flair Nasel Strips
Any feedback & experiences with particular products, amounts & timing would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Lasix- 2-3 hours out depending on horse
NO Ventipulmin!!! (in my experience it makes them bleed worse-- I have also read forums about it)
Oxygen Jailbreak- or- OE Nitro 2 hours out. Sometimes I give Jailbreak before and after running, especially if the horse's tummy is tore up.
Flair Strips are great if you are willing to spend $10 every run and can remember to stock up on them ---these two reasons are why I do not use them anymore lol.
I do like Air Power 30 minutes out but have never tried giving it to a bleeder, I would think it would be fine since it is not as strong as Ventipulmin.
I normally give a scoop of Apple-A-Day by Finish Line in a bucket of water after I run so they will want to drink. My picky horse also gets a big salt rock in his stall at weekend shows. |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| I wouldn't give ventipulmin. Somehow speeding the heart up with lowered blood pressure just sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Every vet you talk to in Texas will tell you to start with 5 ccs Lasix, three to four hours out.
Wind Aid burned the crap out of my mare's mouth. She was peeling for days. I felt so sorry for her.
I bought Air Power to try instead, haven't used it yet, so no opinion.
Electrolytes after the race to help them drink. Make sure you offer water while they're still warm from running, otherwise they might turn their nose up at it. I just use an Apple A Day electrolytes in rice bran. Make sure you get an electrolyte with lots of Potassium in it!
I think Nasal Strips are a great idea for any horse, especially to help with recovery.
I do keep Ventipulmin on hand for my bleeder, but only for after she bleeds and is on antibiotics and rest to help open things up so that the blood and mucous can be more easily expelled. Then after a bleed, she gets two months off, whether I like it or not.
On further searching, we did find collapsing flappers, which could be contributing/causing the issue. Make sure you get full diagnostics done on your horse to check for this, just in case.
Make sure to get the advice of a good performance/race vet that deals with a lot of bleeders. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 421
| Determine why you think you horse is bleeding.
Does it get very nervous/high heart rate before running, severly increasing blood pressure? Treat for ulcers! Unless your horse is SO unconcerned with barrel racing that it is willing to sleep in the alley when it's your turn, treat for ulcers! Before you load your horse, before you get on to warm up and when you get off to change to your completion bit and tighten you saddle. Give ulcer meds. The reason for this is when you are putting your horse in those situations it's causes a release of stomach acids, if they don't have ulcer meds coating their stomach those acids laying on their belly will hurt. Which makes them tense through their mid section, increase blood pressure and chances of bleeding.
Is you horse effected by minor dust particles in hay, bedding, ground from dragging, tractor fumes, being stalled in a ship in barn with poor ventilation? Look into dex, antihistamines, anti inflamitories, steaming hay, keeping your horse away from the pen (dust, tractor fumes) ect. Wind aid does a great job at clearing the funk out.
Does your horse only bleed in pens with deep ground? If so change your conditioning program. Get a round pen, and have a lot of sand put in it, and work in that a day or two a week. This kind of fitness is different than any other.
Access all of these things in addition to legitiment medications. Lasix, Kentucky red, amicar, dex and banamine combinations. |
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Expert
Posts: 2604
Location: Texas | Thanks for everyone's feedback. I appreciate it!
Horse has been off since January. Hasn't been run since last year. He has had lots of time to rest and heal. I have addressed allergies, no longer any coughing (thanks to Curost) (but has a long history of allergy & coughing his whole life), and he is in top physical condition. I have addressed all possible causes. With his long history of allergy issues I believe it has taken it's toll on his 14 year old lungs and just started bleeding late last year. The horse does not have ulcers.
My vet perscribed 3 cc Lasix 3 hours pre race and to start Ventipulmin 5cc 2 x day, starting 2 days before a race! |
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