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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
   
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | winwillows - 2017-03-24 2:18 PM We had a good conversation about this horse. I think we are on the right track, and I look forward to seeing how the next few weeks go. Win
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | winwillows - 2017-03-24 1:16 PM Renew Gold does have more calories than grain based feeds. 1700 per pound. I suspect that is not the issue with this horse, as it sound like plenty of total calories are being fed when the entire current diet is considered. They just are not being used. If you will give me a call I would be happy to help without adding a bunch of products that will not help without getting the system fully functional. Win
that's pretty great,
and since your average Barrel Horse is going to require about 25,000 calories a day. Ima go out on a limb and say that you're not going to get there with 1.5lbs of renew gold.
i'm not knocking your supplement. Just stating fact.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| I tried feeding renew gold to a whole herd broodmares, babies, performance etc... Bottom line the "reccommended" feeding isn't enough. Ultimately you have to feed 2-4x more to maintain. I quit feeding grain about 3 years ago and put my horses on alfalfa, enrich, rice bran and grazing and or Bermuda hay. I switched out my enrich/rice bran for renew gold and my horses all lost weight. The "solution" was feed more. That got EXPENSIVE fast. I switched back to my program they all thrived, zero issues. The base ingredient for RG is rice bran. Not knocking RG but it's the new trendy feed.
Edited by iloveequine40 2017-03-24 5:26 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | iloveequine40 - 2017-03-24 5:19 PM
I tried feeding renew gold to a whole herd broodmares, babies, performance etc... Bottom line the "reccommended" feeding isn't enough. Ultimately you have to feed 2-4x more to maintain. I quit feeding grain about 3 years ago and put my horses on alfalfa, enrich, rice bran and grazing and or Bermuda hay.
If you needed 2 to 4 times the recommended feeding of Renew Gold to maintain your horses something else was going on. Likely the issue would be inadequate hay calories in the roughage, or an system inability to process it. We literally have no (as in zero) known customers that are feeding Renew Gold at that rate, and do not recommend it. While safe, there is just no need to do that if hay quality is good, there is plenty of it, and your horses system is not disrupted by other feed. Our long time customers will tell you that. While there is Stabilized Rice Bran (which I invented) in Renew Gold, it is much more than that. Sorry it did not work for you. But not working in a whole herd while it works at the recommended rate for so many others would be highly unusual. As for trendy. I am too old for trendy. I have been in this business for over thirty years.
Edited by winwillows 2017-03-24 5:38 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | 1DSoon - 2017-03-24 2:43 PM
winwillows - 2017-03-24 1:16 PM Renew Gold does have more calories than grain based feeds. 1700 per pound. I suspect that is not the issue with this horse, as it sound like plenty of total calories are being fed when the entire current diet is considered. They just are not being used. If you will give me a call I would be happy to help without adding a bunch of products that will not help without getting the system fully functional. Win
that's pretty great,
and since your average Barrel Horse is going to require about 25,000 calories a day. Ima go out on a limb and say that you're not going to get there with 1.5lbs of renew gold.
i'm not knocking your supplement. Just stating fact.
Actually, when we talked I changed some other things that the OP was doing and said that I felt that she would be able to drop the Renew Gold to 1.5 pounds from the 2 pounds that she was feeding. There are ways to better get to a target calorie goal without more concentrate. Proper function in the hind gut does wonders. Adding more concentrate can reach a point where you disrupt that. More concentrate than can be digested fairly high in the small intestine becomes a road block and a lot of the roughage calories end up on the ground behind the horse. If we capture those instead of wasting them, target goals become much easier to reach. We feed a lot of high effort horses with no calorie sources except Renew Gold and good quality hay. Sheri Cervi feeds 1.5 pound total of RG and hay. Ivy Conrado feeds 1.5 pound of RG and hay, Dena Kirkpatrick feeds 1 pound of RG and hay. None of these high stress horses are fed more or other concentrate feeds. |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | winwillows - 2017-03-24 6:52 PM 1DSoon - 2017-03-24 2:43 PM winwillows - 2017-03-24 1:16 PM Renew Gold does have more calories than grain based feeds. 1700 per pound. I suspect that is not the issue with this horse, as it sound like plenty of total calories are being fed when the entire current diet is considered. They just are not being used. If you will give me a call I would be happy to help without adding a bunch of products that will not help without getting the system fully functional. Win that's pretty great,
and since your average Barrel Horse is going to require about 25,000 calories a day. Ima go out on a limb and say that you're not going to get there with 1.5lbs of renew gold.
i'm not knocking your supplement. Just stating fact.
Actually, when we talked I changed some other things that the OP was doing and said that I felt that she would be able to drop the Renew Gold to 1.5 pounds from the 2 pounds that she was feeding. There are ways to better get to a target calorie goal without more concentrate. Proper function in the hind gut does wonders. Adding more concentrate can reach a point where you disrupt that. More concentrate than can be digested fairly high in the small intestine becomes a road block and a lot of the roughage calories end up on the ground behind the horse. If we capture those instead of wasting them, target goals become much easier to reach. We feed a lot of high effort horses with no calorie sources except Renew Gold and good quality hay. Sheri Cervi feeds 1.5 pound total of RG and hay. Ivy Conrado feeds 1.5 pound of RG and hay, Dena Kirkpatrick feeds 1 pound of RG and hay. None of these high stress horses are fed more or other concentrate feeds.
but what you are either purposely omitting or obtusely not wanting to say is they also feed 20-30 lbs a day of alfalfa which is what the OP was told she needed to do
again, your supplement is not a problem. But it's not a feed.
Edited by 1DSoon 2017-03-24 6:21 PM
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Expert
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Location: Willows, CA | I omit nothing. I do not recommend straight alfalfa. Anyone on this site who I have talked to about their horses diet will confirm that I have never once recommended that they feed straight alfalfa. Nor did I do so to the OP of this thread. Straight alfalfa is not necessary in the program and the vast majority of our customers do not feed straight alfalfa. Nor do I myself. As to what the rodeo riders I sited feed, I am sure you know that there is probably no group of professional horse owners in the country that feed more different kinds of hay than a rodeo competitor does. You feed the best you can find as almost no one who hauls for a living can take enough hay with them to avoid buying hay on the road. In most cases the best that they can get is a mixed hay. I am always asked what the best addition to a feeding program is, and I always say better hay. As to the term feed or supplement. Yes, it is a feed or a supplement. I guess a feed replacement is a better term, though even that term is better suited to Stabilized Rice Bran. Renew Gold has a number of other functions in the system that result in efficiency changes from the mouth back. Simply a different deal than just calories or grain replacement. We have the great fortune to feed some of the best horses in the world. Next time you see one of those people ask them yourself. In any case, you are always better off to make as much of the needed energy from roughage digested in a fully functional digestive system than by adding disruptive calories from concentrate when more is fed than can be digested properly. Helping do that is the main purpose of Renew Gold. It is clearly not for everyone, but, for those who use it as intended the satisfaction rate has been all I could ever ask for. By the way, I did not tell the OP to feed more of anything. Just worked to fix what was not working. Also have never told anyone to feed more than around 20 pounds of roughage, which is the basic nutrition everyone should base their program upon anyway.
Edited by winwillows 2017-03-24 7:17 PM
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | winwillows - 2017-03-24 6:53 PM
I omit nothing. I do not recommend straight alfalfa. Anyone on this site who I have talked to about their horses diet will confirm that I have never once recommended that they feed straight alfalfa. Nor did I do so to the OP of this thread. Straight alfalfa is not necessary in the program and the vast majority of our customers do not feed straight alfalfa. Nor do I myself. As to what the rodeo riders I sited feed, I am sure you know that there is probably no group of professional horse owners in the country that feed more different kinds of hay than a rodeo competitor does. You feed the best you can find as almost no one who hauls for a living can take enough hay with them to avoid buying hay on the road. In most cases the best that they can get is a mixed hay. I am always asked what the best addition to a feeding program is, and I always say better hay. As to the term feed or supplement. Yes, it is a feed or a supplement. I guess a feed replacement is a better term, though even that term is better suited to Stabilized Rice Bran. Renew Gold has a number of other functions in the system that result in efficiency changes from the mouth back. Simply a different deal than just calories or grain replacement. We have the great fortune to feed some of the best horses in the world. Next time you see one of those people ask them yourself. In any case, you are always better off to make as much of the needed energy from roughage digested in a fully functional digestive system than by adding disruptive calories from concentrate when more is fed than can be digested properly. Helping do that is the main purpose of Renew Gold. It is clearly not for everyone, but, for those who use it as intended the satisfaction rate has been all I could ever ask for. By the way, I did not tell the OP to feed more of anything. Just worked to fix what was not working. Also have never told anyone to feed more than around 20 pounds of roughage, which is the basic nutrition everyone should base their program upon anyway.
I truly appreciate that you always take time to answer questions and comment on this forum. That you will take and return calls is just icing on the cake. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| winwillows - 2017-03-24 5:33 PM
iloveequine40 - 2017-03-24 5:19 PM
I tried feeding renew gold to a whole herd broodmares, babies, performance etc... Bottom line the "reccommended" feeding isn't enough. Ultimately you have to feed 2-4x more to maintain. I quit feeding grain about 3 years ago and put my horses on alfalfa, enrich, rice bran and grazing and or Bermuda hay.
If you needed 2 to 4 times the recommended feeding of Renew Gold to maintain your horses something else was going on. Likely the issue would be inadequate hay calories in the roughage, or an system inability to process it. We literally have no (as in zero ) known customers that are feeding Renew Gold at that rate, and do not recommend it. While safe, there is just no need to do that if hay quality is good, there is plenty of it, and your horses system is not disrupted by other feed. Our long time customers will tell you that. While there is Stabilized Rice Bran (which I invented ) in Renew Gold, it is much more than that. Sorry it did not work for you. But not working in a whole herd while it works at the recommended rate for so many others would be highly unusual. As for trendy. I am too old for trendy. I have been in this business for over thirty years.
Sorry, you're wrong. The only change I made was the RG, same forage. Prior to that horses were fat/healthy. Teeth were all done, worming regular vet care. Just like all diets don't work for all people, all feeds are not a one size fit all. I returned to feeding rice bran/enrich and they all returned to their previous weight. I'm not saying it's a bad product it just didn't work for me. |
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Expert
Posts: 1409
Location: Oklahoma | OP if you are close to the henryetta ok area I can get you in touch with someone that has awesome alfalfa hay that comes from Arizona. You will not be disappointed!!! |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 501
Location: Oklahoma | Turnburnsis - 2017-03-27 1:17 AM OP if you are close to the henryetta ok area I can get you in touch with someone that has awesome alfalfa hay that comes from Arizona. You will not be disappointed!!!
I am not! But thank you very much! But I did find some of the omnis cubes this weekend and very happy with those! |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Oklahoma | thanks everyone for the comments and assistance! I did talk to Win- he made some recommendations and I did find some omnis cubes by Danco in my area! They do seem to be really good quality. He likes them so that is great news. I have upped the cubes to 9-10lbs daily right now. Left the Renew Gold at the 2#'s right now and will be adding Forco this week.
He does have 24 access to good bermuda grass hay as well. Plus the grass is coming in- so that will help.
Hoping this helps him! Thanks again!
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Expert
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Location: Willows, CA | runningfree123 - 2017-03-27 7:56 AM
thanks everyone for the comments and assistance! I did talk to Win- he made some recommendations and I did find some omnis cubes by Danco in my area! They do seem to be really good quality. He likes them so that is great news. I have upped the cubes to 9-10lbs daily right now. Left the Renew Gold at the 2#'s right now and will be adding Forco this week.
He does have 24 access to good bermuda grass hay as well. Plus the grass is coming in- so that will help.
Hoping this helps him! Thanks again!
I would think that you will be able to back the Renew Gold back to 1.5 pounds total per day (perhaps even less) on that diet once he is carrying the condition you want. There are a lot of calories going in when your coastal is considered. The alfalfa cubes should slow the hind gut to help the coastal be used. Please keep me informed. |
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 Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | I have a horse that is a hard keeper due to basically IBS in his small intestine, along with ulcers as a result...
I feed him a full scoop of FORCO probiotic, 3/4 lb of Renew Gold, 2# of Equine Senior, a flake of 1st cutting alfalfa and 2 great big flakes of really nice brome. TWICE a day. He's actually coming off of a month of stall rest from a major injury and infection and he looks AWESOME.
The FORCO is what is helping him get the best out of the rest of what he's eating. With the IBS he was basically not able to absorb most of the nutrients out of the tons of feed I was trying to feed him. I really like the Renew Gold for it's muscle building protein, which this horse needed bad last summer when we started replacing a little of his Senior with RG. I kept him on the senior for the good fat and digestibility (plus he really likes it) and he gets the alfalfa for the cal-phos ratio correction and because it helps with stomach issues and weight gain. |
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Veteran
Posts: 233
| Turnburnsis - 2017-03-27 1:17 AM
OP if you are close to the henryetta ok area I can get you in touch with someone that has awesome alfalfa hay that comes from Arizona. You will not be disappointed!!!
Coalton road still has alfalfa? Least time I picked up a bale it was good stuff. |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| BamaCanChaser - 2017-03-24 8:41 AM
I agree with increasing his alfalfa. 6 pounds is not very much at all.
My feed program is similar to yours. 1lb of rice bran am/pm and a vitamin/mineral supplement. Plus 24/7 turnout on good pasture. My horses eat 2 flakes of alfalfa each am and pm. Weighed it equals 15-20 pounds per day per horse.
You're on the same program as me. Mine look and feel fabulous.
I agree, more alfalfa! If the OP is in Oklahoma, be sure to check out HayRite, there's several dealers across the state and it isn't too bad to get it shipped directly via FedEx if you need to. I really really like the Complete pellets and of course the cubes. |
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Expert
Posts: 1409
Location: Oklahoma | Coalton road still has alfalfa? Least time I picked up a bale it was good stuff.
Hannahbug Im not talking bout coalton's The alfalfa is way better than theirs! I cant remember where coalton gets theirs but it is not from Arizona. And you get more bang for the buck! These are 3 strings bale. I have friends that has fed alfalfa pretty much forever and has switched to this guy that gets it from Arizona. There is such a difference! |
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Location: Big Blue Skies | I'm really liking the Omnis cubes. My horse is at the correct weight and looks good and has more energy. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 317
Location: MS | I have two of mine on Renew Gold. One is an easy keeper. The other is very high energy and has a sensitive stomach.
He was getting muscle sore on Nutrena Pro Force Fuel and ****y all the time. We pulled blood and he had several labs that were way off.
Switched him to Renew Gold and he's a different horse. No stomach issues, no muscle soreness. After 2 months we pulled blood and everything was normal.
It's really settled him down. He also gets as much good quality hay as he can eat. He's probably getting around 2 pounds of Renew Gold a day.
They're all different. I'm glad I found something he does great on. I won't change a thing.
I don't think Renew Gold is the new trendy thing. It's been around for a long time. |
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Veteran
Posts: 233
| Turnburnsis - 2017-03-28 9:22 PM
Coalton road still has alfalfa? Least time I picked up a bale it was good stuff.
Hannahbug Im not talking bout coalton's The alfalfa is way better than theirs! I cant remember where coalton gets theirs but it is not from Arizona. And you get more bang for the buck! These are 3 strings bale. I have friends that has fed alfalfa pretty much forever and has switched to this guy that gets it from Arizona. There is such a difference!
Dang, that makes me wish I needed some now. I was thinking when I start hauling I would get some alfalfa for the tummy buffering effects. We feed a lot of it in pellets and cubes, but those aren't hay bag friendly. |
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