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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
  
| Looking at some older Circle Y's for my backup horse.
Per the serial number they all have tree code 01, semi QH bars.
One is a 1997 NBHA edition
One is a 2004 Proven
One is a 2003 Marlene McRae
I've not seen any of them in person, the tack shop just sent me pictures and serial numbers.
Since the numbers are all tree #1 am I safe to assume all are on the same tree? I know Marlene's are now on a flex tree (and made by reinsman but Circle y did the flex trees for her for awhile, and owns Reinsman?), but I don't think they were in '03?
The horse I'm looking for is a race bred QH with a decent amount of wither. We have a 2005 Martin trophy rope saddle that fits him very well if that helps anyone out. The full tree Triple Creek is too wide in the gullet for him.
I plan to go up to the tack shop later this week and pick one up so my chiropractor can look at it this weekend as well, just need to figure out which one I should grab - prices ranges are all in budget, the proven and Marlene seat sizes would work for sure, the NBHA I'd have to sit in to see if the seat would work or be too small. | |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
 
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I have no ideal as I dont own any Circle Y's, but maybe pm IRunOnFaith or maybe she will see this, shes got some knowledge on saddles so maybe she can answer your questions for you.  | |
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6437
Location: Montana | Okay, here's my experience:
The NBHA edition and the proven are almost identical, IMHO. My proven had the NBHA conchos on it, so they are pretty much the same saddle. I only had the wide tree, but I've only had wide horses with the exception, too, so I can't give you any help on fit. The bar angles fit very nicely, though, on the wide tree. I had a colt that was very race bred that an old rope saddle fit on (old JC Higgins) and I would think the semi-qh bars would work well on him. I'll attach a picture of him.
The Marlene McRae is a VERY different tree, at least on the Reinsman. Marlene McRae trees are a flex tree and fit like a wide fit/full qh bars. I think if you have a horse with high withers, it would be too wide with no gullet clearance. The Circle Y may be different, but to my knowledge Marlene took her tree with her with each saddle maker she went to.
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| mtcanchazer - 2017-05-16 11:03 AM
Okay, here's my experience:
The NBHA edition and the proven are almost identical, IMHO. My proven had the NBHA conchos on it, so they are pretty much the same saddle. I only had the wide tree, but I've only had wide horses with the exception, too, so I can't give you any help on fit. The bar angles fit very nicely, though, on the wide tree. I had a colt that was very race bred that an old rope saddle fit on (old JC Higgins) and I would think the semi-qh bars would work well on him. I'll attach a picture of him.
The Marlene McRae is a VERY different tree, at least on the Reinsman. Marlene McRae trees are a flex tree and fit like a wide fit/full qh bars. I think if you have a horse with high withers, it would be too wide with no gullet clearance. The Circle Y may be different, but to my knowledge Marlene took her tree with her with each saddle maker she went to.
Totally agree about the marlene tree if they were putting flex trees in them in 2003? The serial numbers indicate the same tree in all the saddles, that's why I was asking. The gal at the shop did not see any indication that it was a flex tree.
I actually had one of the reinsman Marlene's on him with the flex tree and it fit very well, the leather and craftsmanship was just a total piece of junk. | |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Other googling has found flex trees as far back as 99 so I'm going to assume that it is...I asked circle y to confirm.
They'll let me take it for trial so I'm leaving towards trying that one first if all appears to be sound. It is well within the budget so that's pretty sweet. | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | The 2003 Marlene would be her flex tree and it would not be wide. Her saddle looks like a treed saddle. | |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Giving this a bump back up for some more thoughts for the OP | |
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Your leather is going to be about the same quality that far back as with the Reinsman you were complaining about in an above reply.
It is very thick and very stiff. They are tanned very differently than most saddles.
If I was you, I would go with the Marlene McRae. Why? The resell value on this saddle will be higher than the NBHA or Proven. I would not pay more than $500 for either of those two saddles in EXCELLENT condition. The Marlene has a retail value of about $800 in a retail setting in excellent condition. For that simple reason I would choose the Marlene.
I would however be very wary of the McRae because it DOES have the Flex Tree in it. However, the flex trees back then were not perfected. Today, the tree moves not even 1/8" in either direction and hold its original shape very well. This keeps the tree from cracking or breaking under stress. It is not designed to "Flex" to the horses back. BACK THEN, the trees could become loose and even be more like a treeless than a treed saddle.(with the nose touching the cantle in extreme situations) They were not designed to flex this much and will sore your horse very quickly if they are loose. If this saddle moves more than 1/8" in either direction when you check the tree for soundness, run.
As far as fit is concerned, It DOES fit like a semi quarter bar. It does NOT fit like a tree #5. These older saddles had very little variation from Semi or Wide. If it says it is semi, it is semi. If it says it was wide, it was wide. Nowadays is a different story.
Each of these trees will fit exactly the same simply because they were made so far back. However, think of your resell value, your leather quality, and your mileage on those saddles. The 2003 is your youngest saddle and it turned 14 years old this year... Putting a new tree in a saddle will cost you $350 with labor and materials and is not guaranteed to fit like it did with the new tree recovered. Older saddles are like used cars. You will have maintenence and if these saddles even have the slightest hair line fracture in the tree they are ticking time bombs. Your Marlene is your best bet should anything major need replaced.
Also, keep in mind, each maker in produciton saddles determines their own bar spread and thie own definition of what semi or wide means. If a semi does not fit your horse it doesn't mean a semi from another maker will not fit your horse. There in lies the problem with the saddle industry.
Hope this helped.
Edited by IRunOnFaith 2017-05-16 3:24 PM
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Thanks for the bump!
Leaning towards the Marlene to start with since I had tried a new reinsman Marlene on him and liked the fit. Hopefully this one has better construction, it looks to be in good shape for 15 years old aside from needing a good cleaning. | |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | I have a 98ish eddelman and i have used it darn near everyday and on a variety of horses..i bought it new and it is by far the best saddle i have ever bought....m | |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| IRunOnFaith - 2017-05-16 3:20 PM
Your leather is going to be about the same quality that far back as with the Reinsman you were complaining about in an above reply.
It is very thick and very stiff. They are tanned very differently than most saddles.
If I was you, I would go with the Marlene McRae. Why? The resell value on this saddle will be higher than the NBHA or Proven. I would not pay more than $500 for either of those two saddles in EXCELLENT condition. The Marlene has a retail value of about $800 in a retail setting in excellent condition. For that simple reason I would choose the Marlene.
I would however be very wary of the McRae because it DOES have the Flex Tree in it. However, the flex trees back then were not perfected. Today, the tree moves not even 1/8" in either direction and hold its original shape very well. This keeps the tree from cracking or breaking under stress. It is not designed to "Flex" to the horses back. BACK THEN, the trees could become loose and even be more like a treeless than a treed saddle.(with the nose touching the cantle in extreme situations) They were not designed to flex this much and will sore your horse very quickly if they are loose. If this saddle moves more than 1/8" in either direction when you check the tree for soundness, run.
As far as fit is concerned, It DOES fit like a semi quarter bar. It does NOT fit like a tree #5. These older saddles had very little variation from Semi or Wide. If it says it is semi, it is semi. If it says it was wide, it was wide. Nowadays is a different story.
Each of these trees will fit exactly the same simply because they were made so far back. However, think of your resell value, your leather quality, and your mileage on those saddles. The 2003 is your youngest saddle and it turned 14 years old this year... Putting a new tree in a saddle will cost you $350 with labor and materials and is not guaranteed to fit like it did with the new tree recovered. Older saddles are like used cars. You will have maintenence and if these saddles even have the slightest hair line fracture in the tree they are ticking time bombs. Your Marlene is your best bet should anything major need replaced.
Also, keep in mind, each maker in produciton saddles determines their own bar spread and thie own definition of what semi or wide means. If a semi does not fit your horse it doesn't mean a semi from another maker will not fit your horse. There in lies the problem with the saddle industry.
Hope this helped.
Thanks!
Totally agree about checking the stability of the tree in the Marlene. My chiropractor is also going to double check the fit with me. I feel the Marlene is reasonably priced and the other 2 are over priced, the proven especially. The reinsman leather was like plastic and did not appear as though it would hold up - that this saddle has already held up for 15 years makes me feel a bit better, but yes knowing it has a flex tree makes me a little worried.
I had an NBHA for a while and was never a huge fan of how it rode anyway.
Totally feel you on the different tree makers and semi/full differences - preach it every time I sell a saddle and people only care about finding a 9" gullet because they think their appendix QH is a small elephant... /sarcasm.
I'm not in any huge hurry to find a saddle for him as he's a backup and I have no problem letting him just be roped off of for a while. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | OhMax - 2017-05-16 4:38 PM IRunOnFaith - 2017-05-16 3:20 PM Your leather is going to be about the same quality that far back as with the Reinsman you were complaining about in an above reply.
It is very thick and very stiff. They are tanned very differently than most saddles.
If I was you, I would go with the Marlene McRae. Why? The resell value on this saddle will be higher than the NBHA or Proven. I would not pay more than $500 for either of those two saddles in EXCELLENT condition. The Marlene has a retail value of about $800 in a retail setting in excellent condition. For that simple reason I would choose the Marlene.
I would however be very wary of the McRae because it DOES have the Flex Tree in it. However, the flex trees back then were not perfected. Today, the tree moves not even 1/8" in either direction and hold its original shape very well. This keeps the tree from cracking or breaking under stress. It is not designed to "Flex" to the horses back. BACK THEN, the trees could become loose and even be more like a treeless than a treed saddle.(with the nose touching the cantle in extreme situations) They were not designed to flex this much and will sore your horse very quickly if they are loose. If this saddle moves more than 1/8" in either direction when you check the tree for soundness, run.
As far as fit is concerned, It DOES fit like a semi quarter bar. It does NOT fit like a tree #5. These older saddles had very little variation from Semi or Wide. If it says it is semi, it is semi. If it says it was wide, it was wide. Nowadays is a different story.
Each of these trees will fit exactly the same simply because they were made so far back. However, think of your resell value, your leather quality, and your mileage on those saddles. The 2003 is your youngest saddle and it turned 14 years old this year... Putting a new tree in a saddle will cost you $350 with labor and materials and is not guaranteed to fit like it did with the new tree recovered. Older saddles are like used cars. You will have maintenence and if these saddles even have the slightest hair line fracture in the tree they are ticking time bombs. Your Marlene is your best bet should anything major need replaced.
Also, keep in mind, each maker in produciton saddles determines their own bar spread and thie own definition of what semi or wide means. If a semi does not fit your horse it doesn't mean a semi from another maker will not fit your horse. There in lies the problem with the saddle industry.
Hope this helped. Thanks! Totally agree about checking the stability of the tree in the Marlene. My chiropractor is also going to double check the fit with me. I feel the Marlene is reasonably priced and the other 2 are over priced, the proven especially. The reinsman leather was like plastic and did not appear as though it would hold up - that this saddle has already held up for 15 years makes me feel a bit better, but yes knowing it has a flex tree makes me a little worried. I had an NBHA for a while and was never a huge fan of how it rode anyway. Totally feel you on the different tree makers and semi/full differences - preach it every time I sell a saddle and people only care about finding a 9" gullet because they think their appendix QH is a small elephant... /sarcasm. I'm not in any huge hurry to find a saddle for him as he's a backup and I have no problem letting him just be roped off of for a while.
I have two with 10" Gullets that I am sitting on and will be for a while. I traded saddles with a lady because she realized what a scam Martin played on her with those particular saddles. Well played tho Martin, well played....
Circle Y may use top quality leather in some people's eye but again, their tanning process differs greatly than other production saddle makers. It makes the leather very shiny, very hard, and very plastic like. Most all Circl Y saddles will have this feature about them. If you aren't big on leather quality, or if you are looking for a budget saddle I think older used Circle Y saddles are a fair saddle for the price. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 682
Location: Northwest | I have an old Proven with semi qh bars. It's not junk but it isn't super high end obviously. It's one of the most comfortable saddles I've rode in. I've mostly have just been riding two different Stoney's for the past year and I threw my Circle Y on my mare yesterday. I honestly kind of let out a little sigh.... comfy!
Edited by 07milch 2017-05-16 10:23 PM
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 Regular
Posts: 73
Location: Central Texas | The only one I've had experience with is the Marlene McRae. I had a 1999 Marlene Eddleman by Circle Y. It had the SQHB flex tree with 6 3/4" gullet and was very narrow which is why I had to sell it. It was super comfortable for myself, just didn't fit anything I had in the barn. | |
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Regular
Posts: 73
Location: Central Texas | OhMax - 2017-05-16 11:25 AM mtcanchazer - 2017-05-16 11:03 AM Okay, here's my experience:
The NBHA edition and the proven are almost identical, IMHO. My proven had the NBHA conchos on it, so they are pretty much the same saddle. I only had the wide tree, but I've only had wide horses with the exception, too, so I can't give you any help on fit. The bar angles fit very nicely, though, on the wide tree. I had a colt that was very race bred that an old rope saddle fit on (old JC Higgins) and I would think the semi-qh bars would work well on him. I'll attach a picture of him.
The Marlene McRae is a VERY different tree, at least on the Reinsman. Marlene McRae trees are a flex tree and fit like a wide fit/full qh bars. I think if you have a horse with high withers, it would be too wide with no gullet clearance. The Circle Y may be different, but to my knowledge Marlene took her tree with her with each saddle maker she went to. Totally agree about the marlene tree if they were putting flex trees in them in 2003? The serial numbers indicate the same tree in all the saddles, that's why I was asking. The gal at the shop did not see any indication that it was a flex tree. I actually had one of the reinsman Marlene's on him with the flex tree and it fit very well, the leather and craftsmanship was just a total piece of junk.
My 1999 was a flex tree. It said "Special Effex" on one of the conchos I believe. It also had the carpet skirting vs. fleece. | |
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Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | WinningPaints - 2017-05-19 1:39 PM
OhMax - 2017-05-16 11:25 AM mtcanchazer - 2017-05-16 11:03 AM Okay, here's my experience:
The NBHA edition and the proven are almost identical, IMHO. My proven had the NBHA conchos on it, so they are pretty much the same saddle. I only had the wide tree, but I've only had wide horses with the exception, too, so I can't give you any help on fit. The bar angles fit very nicely, though, on the wide tree. I had a colt that was very race bred that an old rope saddle fit on (old JC Higgins) and I would think the semi-qh bars would work well on him. I'll attach a picture of him.
The Marlene McRae is a VERY different tree, at least on the Reinsman. Marlene McRae trees are a flex tree and fit like a wide fit/full qh bars. I think if you have a horse with high withers, it would be too wide with no gullet clearance. The Circle Y may be different, but to my knowledge Marlene took her tree with her with each saddle maker she went to. Totally agree about the marlene tree if they were putting flex trees in them in 2003? The serial numbers indicate the same tree in all the saddles, that's why I was asking. The gal at the shop did not see any indication that it was a flex tree. I actually had one of the reinsman Marlene's on him with the flex tree and it fit very well, the leather and craftsmanship was just a total piece of junk.
My 1999 was a flex tree. It said "Special Effex" on one of the conchos I believe. It also had the carpet skirting vs. fleece.
Same with mine it was a special effx and carpet bottom...m | |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Thanks! I went and picked it up tonight, yes it is the flex tree and carpet underneath
Seems to be in good condition, tree looks straight and feels smooth.
It seems to sit ok on him, I'll have my chiropractor look at it as well, I think I'm also second guessing myself because I'm SO worried about getting one that fits well. I'll know more when I ride him in it, I can really tell a difference there. | |
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