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 Half-Eaten Cookies
Posts: 2076
 
Location: Fort Worth / Springtown | I think there is something going on with the horse, causing pain, as well. Back? Swishing tail. Hollowed back. I know the guy looked unbalanced in the video, but I also have been on a horse that was getting pinched by saddle and they will be "wobbly" - like a wet noodle - and throw your balance off. It feels odd and it is hard to keep them collected. I hope it gets figured out. Really nice horse. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
  
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas |
I just watched this video, WOW is all I can say, the man should have just pulled up this horse and stoped the course, a good horseman would have known that this was not going to go well and that theres something going on with this horse. Seems to me that this man was trying to prove something and it back fired on him.. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| want2chase3 - 2017-06-28 11:23 AM
stayceem - 2017-06-28 10:15 AM
I guess I find it a bit dramatic to call it disturbing. It wasn't pretty that is for sure but I think the horse got frazzled after the first jump. By continuing, I don't think the horse is abused but I don't think it was productive. If you watch other jumpers, a lot of them are heavy in the bit and they look like they're wrestling them the whole time. I think a ban is excessive. He clearly patted the horse at the end, I don't think there was malicious intent.
You do wrestle them and you have to place them right where you need to be, they are big, strong athletes... I took me forever to adjust to not keeping one "in the bridle" the trainer I started working with after my jumping career would only let me ride his horses in a light hackamore lol! Now I'm very light handed but I'm constantly staying aware of it!
That was kind of my point. I think that's normal. I grew up with a lot of 3 day eventers and once you get into the high levels, you see this more. Naturally I watch a lot of jumpers and noticed this style. |
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Southtxponygirl - 2017-06-28 1:49 PM I just watched this video, WOW is all I can say, the man should have just pulled up this horse and stoped the course, a good horseman would have known that this was not going to go well and that theres something going on with this horse. Seems to me that this man was trying to prove something and it back fired on him..
I think this is the point the Federation is arguing.  |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | IRunOnFaith - 2017-06-28 2:06 PM Southtxponygirl - 2017-06-28 1:49 PM I just watched this video, WOW is all I can say, the man should have just pulled up this horse and stoped the course, a good horseman would have known that this was not going to go well and that theres something going on with this horse. Seems to me that this man was trying to prove something and it back fired on him..
Even the people in the crowd were not pleased in what he was doing, you can see that he was saying something back to them, yep he should have stoped instead of going on with the course, I think he would have been respected for stoping this ride.. |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | JMO - but the ban was warranted. That was freakin awful! I grew up riding hunter/jumpers and cannot imagine why he didn't stop. He didn't just hit the first jump, he demolished it. His balance is off and he's hitting the horse in the mouth on a lot of jumps and causing rails. No wonder the poor sucker has had enough. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | He just looks like he is blown up. Whether it's mental or physical, he hates what he is doing.
Much of that needed to be addressed in training. I understand that you have to address some issues in competition, but the rider looked like his only game plan was to keep pushing. I never once saw a correction that looked like "nooo, remember this from training" while repeating the movement. It looked like an awful war of wills and the horse has it figured out that they ain't gonna make him do what he don't want to do.
Looks like they paid over a million dollars for the horse. You can't MAKE them work. It just doesn't work that way. Ever. |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| IRunOnFaith - 2017-06-28 8:21 AM
All of these are very interesting points of view.
Griz: Wouldn't it be nice if the person in the warm up arena that's going the opposite direction, plowing through people while running could be banned for a bit? LOL!!!! I think if we had this rule implemented it would be interesting to say the least.
Ya darned sure have a point!!  |
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 Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | I have never done show jumping, but I have participated in lower levels of stadium jumping in 3 day events and nothing more then 2'6" in hunter jumper growing up, so with the little experience I have I can tell you that that horse needs another job for a while, I think dressage would do him well for a year or so, just flat work and take him off of jumps. He's rushing his jumps really bad and is VERY unhappy. Show jumpers get hot and strong just like barrel racing, it is a timed event but with speed they need collection also. He is actually a beautiful jumper, he tucks and doesn't hang his front feet, and when he does it correct it's very pretty but I see a blown up Sour horse and continuing to show him is probably not going to help right now.
As far as the rider goes, he isn't helping the horses confidence by hanging on his face, I can see he's trying to control him from running off but this horse probably needs a quieter trainer, or better hand. Show jumping doesn't judge the rider, just the horse so in this case the riders ability doesn't matter, but yes, he should have pulled him up after the first few bad jumps. Those rails do hurt!
I'm waiting for Bibiliafarms response to this as well!
Edited by RnRJack 2017-06-29 7:46 AM
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | RnRJack - 2017-06-29 7:45 AM I have never done show jumping, but I have participated in lower levels of stadium jumping in 3 day events and nothing more then 2'6" in hunter jumper growing up, so with the little experience I have I can tell you that that horse needs another job for a while, I think dressage would do him well for a year or so, just flat work and take him off of jumps. He's rushing his jumps really bad and is VERY unhappy. Show jumpers get hot and strong just like barrel racing, it is a timed event but with speed they need collection also. He is actually a beautiful jumper, he tucks and doesn't hang his front feet, and when he does it correct it's very pretty but I see a blown up Sour horse and continuing to show him is probably not going to help right now. As far as the rider goes, he isn't helping the horses confidence by hanging on his face, I can see he's trying to control him from running off but this horse probably needs a quieter trainer, or better hand. Show jumping doesn't judge the rider, just the horse so in this case the riders ability doesn't matter, but yes, he should have pulled him up after the first few bad jumps. Those rails do hurt! I'm waiting for Bibiliafarms response to this as well!
I've been waiting for that response as well. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
| Here is a fine example of buying a nice horse with a poor rider. At first I thought it was a joke/practice run. I think the rider needs to step off that horse and get a few lessons. I dont think he needs to be banned, just not allowed to jump at those heights. It would be nice to see a few barrel racers banned for a few months for beating their horses or running them into the ground. One thing I wish would be implemented at races is disqualification. Usually on the entry fee it states disqualification for animal abuse. Yet, I see riders slap their horses in the face with wipes or spur the crap out of them until they bleed. Just once, I want to hear the announcer tell someone like that they are disqualified from the race.  |
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 Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| I'm gonna share a story... about my grand prix horse, the last big time horse I owned... aquired him when I was just getting into my junior year he was definitely a step up horse.. huge 18plus hand pure black warmblood, he was 13 when we bought him, very much been there done that experienced horse I need to build confidence. He did just that for me... we cleaned up on the west coast... we were an amazing team. The very end of my junior career we had one last big show, the fences seemed to get higher and wider.. I was scared but I knew the guy would take care of me, like he always did... we entered the arena for the finals... came to our last triple which looked ENORMOUS , I felt him suck back and my heart sank because I knew he was tired and was probably hurting, he was 18 and just tired of the 6 foot plus fences... I always had to hold him back and this time he just quit.. he refused going into the triple... never ever had this horse refused a fence... I knew right then and there he was threw... I tipped my hat to the judges and calmly walked out of the arena... boy... I got an earful from my trainers who were LIVID I didn't MAKE him finish that triple .. I blew the finals, my last finals of my junior year.. even my own mother told me how disappointed she was I did that... but you know what ... I didn't care, I knew I did right by old RC that evening. .. we sold him to a barn that taught up and coming little riders how to jump... 3ft max... he retired sound and happy until he died of old age... I think about that big black sucker everyday and how much he taught me! He will forever have a place in my heart.
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| want2chase3 - 2017-06-29 11:14 AM
I'm gonna share a story... about my grand prix horse, the last big time horse I owned... aquired him when I was just getting into my junior year he was definitely a step up horse.. huge 18plus hand pure black warmblood, he was 13 when we bought him, very much been there done that experienced horse I need to build confidence. He did just that for me... we cleaned up on the west coast... we were an amazing team. The very end of my junior career we had one last big show, the fences seemed to get higher and wider.. I was scared but I knew the guy would take care of me, like he always did... we entered the arena for the finals... came to our last triple which looked ENORMOUS , I felt him suck back and my heart sank because I knew he was tired and was probably hurting, he was 18 and just tired of the 6 foot plus fences... I always had to hold him back and this time he just quit.. he refused going into the triple... never ever had this horse refused a fence... I knew right then and there he was threw... I tipped my hat to the judges and calmly walked out of the arena... boy... I got an earful from my trainers who were LIVID I didn't MAKE him finish that triple .. I blew the finals, my last finals of my junior year.. even my own mother told me how disappointed she was I did that... but you know what ... I didn't care, I knew I did right by old RC that evening. .. we sold him to a barn that taught up and coming little riders how to jump... 3ft max... he retired sound and happy until he died of old age... I think about that big black sucker everyday and how much he taught me! He will forever have a place in my heart.
Thanks for sharing. I think it is great that you loved him so much that you did the best thing for him, despite what other people thought.  |
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Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| I guess my point was that if I forced him thru that triple I probably would have looked like that fella and my amazing horse would have ended up hating his job.. luckily he went on at a much easier level and he truly enjoyed those youngsters on his back... he earned it! |
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| lots of good comments but to me several things videos are not really fhere we don/t know the horse or rider tail wring i hate that same thing something wrong but it is also a nervose hadbit like bitting fingernails
?either or we don./t know mike smith or jocks will tell u if that horse want to go he is goning to and u human are not going to stop him no bit can
?ever crashed a barrel you not going to stop it horses have good and bad days just like us
?yep that guys balance was off your would be to on that ride that was a wreck
this is kind like 20/20 hindsight
ypou all jump in that saddle on that horse go for it |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| vjls - 2017-06-29 12:10 PM
lots of good comments but to me several things videos are not really fhere we don/t know the horse or rider tail wring i hate that same thing something wrong but it is also a nervose hadbit like bitting fingernails
?either or we don./t know mike smith or jocks will tell u if that horse want to go he is goning to and u human are not going to stop him no bit can
?ever crashed a barrel you not going to stop it  horses have good and bad days just like us
?yep that guys balance was off   your would be to on that ride that was a wreck
this is kind like 20/20 hindsight
ypou all  jump in that saddle on that horse go for itÂ
You bet my balance would have been off on that ride. I probably wouldn't have forced that ride, though. I am betting it was a train wreck in the warm up pen. When a horse is acting that badly either he is mentally not there that day ( and hasn't been for a while)and it is better to bow out and try another day, or his is hurting and doesn't need to go, or my riding is so off that day that I need to pack it up for the day. That guy had the heck beat out of him earlier in the year and I bet he hasn't recovered enough to be strong enough for that horse. Now, he may be fried and good to no one, all to satisfy his ego. |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | want2chase3 - 2017-06-29 11:14 AM
I'm gonna share a story... about my grand prix horse, the last big time horse I owned... aquired him when I was just getting into my junior year he was definitely a step up horse.. huge 18plus hand pure black warmblood, he was 13 when we bought him, very much been there done that experienced horse I need to build confidence. He did just that for me... we cleaned up on the west coast... we were an amazing team. The very end of my junior career we had one last big show, the fences seemed to get higher and wider.. I was scared but I knew the guy would take care of me, like he always did... we entered the arena for the finals... came to our last triple which looked ENORMOUS , I felt him suck back and my heart sank because I knew he was tired and was probably hurting, he was 18 and just tired of the 6 foot plus fences... I always had to hold him back and this time he just quit.. he refused going into the triple... never ever had this horse refused a fence... I knew right then and there he was threw... I tipped my hat to the judges and calmly walked out of the arena... boy... I got an earful from my trainers who were LIVID I didn't MAKE him finish that triple .. I blew the finals, my last finals of my junior year.. even my own mother told me how disappointed she was I did that... but you know what ... I didn't care, I knew I did right by old RC that evening. .. we sold him to a barn that taught up and coming little riders how to jump... 3ft max... he retired sound and happy until he died of old age... I think about that big black sucker everyday and how much he taught me! He will forever have a place in my heart.
And your story sums up one thing about you---what an amazing and truly caring person does for their horse. They give us their all, and we owe it to them to always take care of them. A lot of people I know could take a lesson from you
I love a big black horse, so I think he was gorgeous! |
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 I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| Not a hunter jumper but it seems to me that if you want him punished for continuing then the judges should also be fined for not stopping the "run".
What I saw in the video was a VERY strong horse who was going through the bit and taking control. Maybe pain, maybe spoiled, maybe burnt out. You know I surely would have had trouble staying centered and balanced with all of that going on. It also occurred to me that perhaps this horse HAD been soured before this and this guy was trying to ride him through it. Y'all know the type? Fine in the practice pen but sour in the arena? Maybe he was trying to show this horse that he could not get away with stuff just because in was in the show arena. I have fixed a few barrel horses that have been soured and sometimes you have to sacrifice a few runs to let them know that they are NOT going to get away with stuff and if FB and videos were as common then as they are now, I imagine I would have been subject to attack too. I saw no real "abuse" and do NOT know why he chose to finish the course. Far be it for me to judge. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | I agree with the ban. As a professional rider at an international level he should have excused himself from the round. This wasn't a schooling show and as such should not be treated that way. It was obvious the horse was not having a good round so pull up, excuse yourself and go back to working on it at home.
I can't see how being yanked around and crashing through fenced would give that horse any extra confidence. This was a poor display of horsemanship and the ban is justified. |
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