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Expert
Posts: 1409
 
Location: Oklahoma | anyone tied their breathing issues to Epm? |
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Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | It’s not uncommon to have flapper issues come up in a horse with EPM. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
   
| There was a lady at my vet's clinic who was having flapper surgery on her horse that had had EPM. Clinic is in Benton LA (Bossier City) and she had driven from Ft Worth. |
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Expert
Posts: 1409
Location: Oklahoma | Liana D - 2018-07-22 8:58 AM
It’s not uncommon to have flapper issues come up in a horse with EPM.
Well funny you say that because that is what I found out the other day! it is a grade 2 , 5 being the worse. Its only on one side. So hoping this will heal after epm medicine but its a wait and see, and of course not sure how long it take if it does heal. Ive been told the last 4-6 years that my horse has copd and Ive treated and went in circles, and I was always told that I had separate problems than just epm. The vet that I'm with now, we both thinking that epm is the culprit. He didn't really fit the copd box but I think that's what I just got told bc of a catch all pretty much. Since I have gotten him on the Driclaruzaril, levamisole and vit e he is so much better! and I have taken him off his resp. supplements so that we could tell exactly if epm. His breathing is not the best but he definitely getting more air and his diaphragm is moving better! and he not hanging in the barn with head hanging, even in the middle of the hot day! But I'm only on day 6, so cant wait to see at the end of 30 days! We will re-scope then. |
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Location: Northeast Texas | Yes! I have a gelding that has occasional DDSP and a mild flapper issue. His breathing became much worse at the same time he was showing signs of EPM. About two weeks into EPM treatment his breathing improved drastically. |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| Turnburnsis - 2018-07-23 8:52 AM
Liana D - 2018-07-22 8:58 AM
It’s not uncommon to have flapper issues come up in a horse with EPM.
Well funny you say that because that is what I found out the other day! it is a grade 2 , 5 being the worse. Its only on one side. So hoping this will heal after epm medicine but its a wait and see, and of course not sure how long it take if it does heal. Ive been told the last 4-6 years that my horse has copd and Ive treated and went in circles, and I was always told that I had separate problems than just epm. The vet that I'm with now, we both thinking that epm is the culprit. He didn't really fit the copd box but I think that's what I just got told bc of a catch all pretty much. Since I have gotten him on the Driclaruzaril, levamisole and vit e he is so much better! and I have taken him off his resp. supplements so that we could tell exactly if epm. His breathing is not the best but he definitely getting more air and his diaphragm is moving better! and he not hanging in the barn with head hanging, even in the middle of the hot day! But I'm only on day 6, so cant wait to see at the end of 30 days! We will re-scope then.
what symptoms besides breathing has your horse had? At what point did you decide to finally test or treat for epm? |
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Veteran
Posts: 286
| A gelding of mine did not have flapper issues when he had EPM but he did have a hard time breathing -- especially catching his breath -- and he also had severely decreased endurance. |
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Expert
Posts: 1409
Location: Oklahoma | WetSaddleBlankets - 2018-07-23 11:33 AM
Turnburnsis - 2018-07-23 8:52 AM
Liana D - 2018-07-22 8:58 AM
It’s not uncommon to have flapper issues come up in a horse with EPM.
Well funny you say that because that is what I found out the other day! it is a grade 2 , 5 being the worse. Its only on one side. So hoping this will heal after epm medicine but its a wait and see, and of course not sure how long it take if it does heal. Ive been told the last 4-6 years that my horse has copd and Ive treated and went in circles, and I was always told that I had separate problems than just epm. The vet that I'm with now, we both thinking that epm is the culprit. He didn't really fit the copd box but I think that's what I just got told bc of a catch all pretty much. Since I have gotten him on the Driclaruzaril, levamisole and vit e he is so much better! and I have taken him off his resp. supplements so that we could tell exactly if epm. His breathing is not the best but he definitely getting more air and his diaphragm is moving better! and he not hanging in the barn with head hanging, even in the middle of the hot day! But I'm only on day 6, so cant wait to see at the end of 30 days! We will re-scope then. what symptoms besides breathing has your horse had? At what point did you decide to finally test or treat for epm?
Bout 4-6 years ago this horse was going downhill and fast! I cant remember which tests I did first. We xrayed his back and he showed mild kissing spines. 2 vets got hung up on kissing spine and said that is why he neurologic. One vet said that I needed a mylo??? where they run the dye thru the neck and needed a 10000.00 surgery and would have to fly in a surgeon! I was devastated and did not feel this was right!
I sent my xrays to 2 other very well known vets and they told me kissing spine was not the reason for the neurologic and a chiro told me the same. I took to another vet and she only one that said he had epm and that we would start treating right away and will go ahead and do the uc davis test just to see. It came back high I don't remember the numbers the Florida test showed he had epm but the first test showed nothing. we treated with IV Driclaruzil for 5 days and I took him home and rehab him for 7 mths. It was not easy!
But then he came back running really nice! I didn't treat for awhile (my time frame memory not the best) bc I was told not to treat unless you see symptoms. I think that he had mild EPM for 2 years prior to the really bad onset bc what was bugging me before that I didn't feel was right was made right. I have been laid off this horse 2 different summers bc of him being really sick and they would scope and he be full of mucus and I would give antiboditics and steroids also would do a trachea wash and was always told COPD. (hind site: I believe the EPM keeping his immune system down and that's why he would get so sick off and on)
So when he didn't do good on steroids the 2nd time around when I looked into natural stuff. It definitely helped him but I felt like I was going in circles! One year he be great on his breathing and the next not. Summers harder than anytime. Seems like every other year. When I went to the vet Wednesday to check on bone cysts and talk to vet bout his breathing. I was gonna scope bc I knew he be full of mucus and starting to get sick on me like before. I had read so much bout copd that he really didn't fit the bill. And when I switched to race today he did so good on it for a couple weeks and then struggling again.
Also, he is not toning up muscle wise like he should be. and when we scoped when we found the flap not working right. and the vet I have now thinks that it is all tied in and it does makes sense just cant explain like he did. And vet also taking into consideration of my hind end issues also. this horse also stands with one hind leg out all the time not always the same side. When we sedated him he really stood with one hind under him and the other way back behind him. He never stood like that before under sedation. So that raised another red flag.
I blame EPM for all this! I wish I was with the vet I have now when all this started in the first place! Tho I am very grateful for the vet that listened to me and treated him and didn't give me a loaded bull like the 2-3 before her! Last year I started hearing talk bout you should treat 2x year and I did last year with rebalance I seen some improvement (not with breathing) but I don't think I treated strong enough. And now that Im giving him Dri, lev, and vit. e I am already seeing a huge difference.
My friend had a client that her horse you could hear him breath loud they treated him for 2 weeks and he started breathing normal. I am so dumb for not connecting the dots sooner and especially after what the clients horse changed! there is a lot more I cant think of everything now, this is my forever horse he never going anywhere. I know it sounds like I never get to run him but I do. And I feel like I am so close on figuring out what this horse needs and the right diagnosis! and how its all tied together. Just praying that the damage is not too bad. but he feels amazing and looks better than he ever has even tho he doesn't have the muscle tone like he should. One more thing I didn't always want to blame the epm bc I didn't want it to be the catch all like COPD was for us. Very hard lesson! Hind site 20/20! there is so many different symptoms of epm that mimics a lot of things! Definitely not black and white! Sorry for misspelled words Im not the best speller. I'm sure I've left out some stuff too.
I pray that what I went through with give someone else a shortcut! Like I said I was always told my breathing issues had nothing to do with epm. I believe different now and especially after Liana said what she said! Thank you! EPM has made me think I am a crazy person! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| Liana D - 2018-07-22 8:58 AM
It’s not uncommon to have flapper issues come up in a horse with EPM.
Exactly
The TB track people closely link breathing issues with EPM. They will treat those that roar or have flapper issues with old school IV EPM treatment that starts with a Z, I'm bad at spelling it and i'm too lazy to look up the correct spelling. We've found it helps with any breathing issue once treated even if EPM isn't in the picture. Some big trainers point blank run it through all 2 yr olds after they come back from being broke. |
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