Mzbradford - 2018-08-15 10:11 AM

Bit gurus come hither please. I would really like to work with my new gelding on getting softer in the bridle. Previous owner had him in a tie down, long shank cervi with a 3 piece mouth. Exercised him in a no hit bit.

I would really like to get him a little softer. He does not break at the pole or round his back and collect very easily. Last night I put him in a short shank cervi and it was not enough at all. Looking for suggestions on what to use to get him softer. I was trying less bit because I think we need to take a step back and learn the basics.

WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2018-08-15 11:16 AM


To soften mine I went all the way back to a loomis. I bitted him back and to the side, in the round pen with it and once I had him giving to himself I got on and got after breaking apart the 5 body parts. I rode him in the loomis for most of the fall and into the winter. Cracked him out this past February and put him in a Jim Edwards Leon. Switched back and forth between that and the loomis for about a month, and then progressed him into a Jim Edwards square port, then backed off to a smaller, shorter shanked square mouth port by an unknown maker. The other day I was thinking I wanted to work on even more softness and pulled out the simplicity, I really like that one. That one really encourages a lot of lateral flexion in my opinion and really helps soften the corner of their mouth.

WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2018-08-15 12:16 PM


To soften mine I went all the way back to a loomis. I bitted him back and to the side, in the round pen with it and once I had him giving to himself I got on and got after breaking apart the 5 body parts. I rode him in the loomis for most of the fall and into the winter. Cracked him out this past February and put him in a Jim Edwards Leon. Switched back and forth between that and the loomis for about a month, and then progressed him into a Jim Edwards square port, then backed off to a smaller, shorter shanked square mouth port by an unknown maker. The other day I was thinking I wanted to work on even more softness and pulled out the simplicity, I really like that one. That one really encourages a lot of lateral flexion in my opinion and really helps soften the corner of their mouth.

mgander - 2018-08-16 9:12 AM I don't have a place to do this, so don't worry I won't be doing it but curiosity gets me. Whenever you bit them to give to themselves, how tight do you make it? I know you have to make it so they'll get relief once they go so far. Do you gradually ask for more flex over weeks?

Tdove - 2018-08-16 9:30 AM A tip that I have learned from being around some great horsemen is that a milder bit doesn't give a softer horse. In reality what we are talking about when a horse is soft in the mouth is that the horse has respect and training for the bit and cueing aids. If a horse has lost a lot of respect, then going to a more severe bit is really the key to softening them up (meaning: gaining their respect). The only issue here is that the horseman at the reins is very important. When a skilled and knowledgable horseman goes up in bit to gain respect, it has a softening effect. The opposite can be true if not done correctly. That is why putting harsher bits in a horses mouth usually will make the horse even harder. So, you have to keep that in mind. Bitting them up can also be good as they will learn that pulling on themselves is a losing proposition. As with anything training related, doing things right is very important.

Tdove - 2018-08-16 10:58 AM

You cannot really pull only on a horse to soften. That is fake collection. So its better then pulling on the bit, but what you really want in softening and collection is shoulders up, rounded back, broke at the poll. All of this is just a means to an end of moving the feet.

To soften a horse and achieve collection, you have to use your hands and your feet at the same time. The feet are more important, as the hands are to really block a horse from pulling against you. Although, pulling and tensioning the bit is also a technique, used properly, to tell the horse to give. The hands say give, the feet say lift and push into the bridle.

Now, you don't want a horse to just give in the face and keep the back hollow. Also, you don't want a horse so soft that you can't have "some" tension either. You want them solid in the face and giving to a certain amount of pressure. Otherwise, your horse will want to hide in the bridle. You do want a horse to give if you do need to actually pull on it. And the release is the most important part of the process.

Mind you, I am not a master of this at all, though I do strive to be the best I can be. Professionals work all of their lives to master the implementation of these things.

Tdove - 2018-08-16 10:58 AM You cannot really pull only on a horse to soften. That is fake collection. So its better then pulling on the bit, but what you really want in softening and collection is shoulders up, rounded back, broke at the poll. All of this is just a means to an end of moving the feet. To soften a horse and achieve collection, you have to use your hands and your feet at the same time. The feet are more important, as the hands are to really block a horse from pulling against you. Although, pulling and tensioning the bit is also a technique, used properly, to tell the horse to give. The hands say give, the feet say lift and push into the bridle. Now, you don't want a horse to just give in the face and keep the back hollow. Also, you don't want a horse so soft that you can't have "some" tension either. You want them solid in the face and giving to a certain amount of pressure. Otherwise, your horse will want to hide in the bridle. You do want a horse to give if you do need to actually pull on it. And the release is the most important part of the process. Mind you, I am not a master of this at all, though I do strive to be the best I can be. Professionals work all of their lives to master the implementation of these things.

Mzbradford - 2018-08-15 10:11 AM Bit gurus come hither please. I would really like to work with my new gelding on getting softer in the bridle. Previous owner had him in a tie down, long shank cervi with a 3 piece mouth. Exercised him in a no hit bit. I would really like to get him a little softer. He does not break at the pole or round his back and collect very easily. Last night I put him in a short shank cervi and it was not enough at all. Looking for suggestions on what to use to get him softer. I was trying less bit because I think we need to take a step back and learn the basics.

r_beau - 2018-08-16 11:45 AM

Softening takes time, time, time and lots of consistency. 

I'm assuming you have already had his teeth done and checked off that list?
I would also have a chiro check him, just to make sure he's not out in the neck or poll.
Of course, it's a training issue, but it's not going to hurt to make sure he's feeling as good as he can.

I have the greatest respect for WYO but I personally am not a fan of tying around. I've tried it in the past and it's not for me. I don't like it because my hands are not there to give-and-take. The horse only has a "solid line" in the sand when you tie them around. I feel like that doesn't really teach them much on what to do when it's my hands, and not a solid object they are trying to pull against. JMO.

I'm also going to agre in part with TDove. You do need to have something in his mouth right now that is going to command his RESPECT. If you do have something in his mouth that makes you need to pull on him to get a response, you will just make him harder in the mouth. While ultimately I believe that every single horse should be capable of riding around in a plain smooth snaffle, you may not be able to start with that in your softening process.

So have something in his mouth that gives respect, but then going forward you need to make sure your hand cues to the horse coincide with what you body is telling him. As WYO said, it's not bad to pull on horse ..... but it is bad if it's only your hands pulling on him and your body is doing nothing else. If you are driving him forward with your seat and your legs and driving him into that bridle, it's okay if you are on his face (so long as he's giving to you).

Do you have a reining trainer near you that can give you a few lessons? Or possibly even hop on him for a ride?

I use the same reining guy that WYO does and it's just super helpful and refreshing to go ride with him a few times a year. Been doing that for years now (and I might cheat every spring and send one of my horses for 30 days to get the winter weight off and get tuned on!).

Then as you make progress with your horse, you will be able to change bits and go smaller and smaller. That is often easier than trying to go to something too small right off the bat that the horse doesn't respect and you have to give them a HUGE cue to get them to respond (which doesn't help you trying to be softer and lighter).
 

Mzbradford - 2018-08-16 1:48 PM Teeth and chiro done. This is a finished horse that has been going to pro rodeos. I understand it takes time- I just was looking for suggestions on what to put on his head because I am not a fan of the long shank cervi or the no hit bit. I put a bit on him by L&W- the 179 lifter with the square mouthpiece and a chain curb. With steady hands and lots of leg, he was much better about rounding his back and breaking at the pole verses acting like a giraffe. Thank you for the detailed reply as well. I know I have a long road to go :) but its a start in the right direction.

Mzbradford - 2018-08-16 1:48 PM Teeth and chiro done. This is a finished horse that has been going to pro rodeos. I understand it takes time- I just was looking for suggestions on what to put on his head because I am not a fan of the long shank cervi or the no hit bit. I put a bit on him by L&W- the 179 lifter with the square mouthpiece and a chain curb. With steady hands and lots of leg, he was much better about rounding his back and breaking at the pole verses acting like a giraffe. Thank you for the detailed reply as well. I know I have a long road to go :) but its a start in the right direction.

clampitt - 2018-08-17 6:56 AM

 Bits are communication devices. You can't push and pull at the same time. Horses work through signals. Clear definite signals. The more you use your reins the less they use their brains. Most all the horses that come here have been pulled on to much to long. The rider braces up against the horse and the horse braces up against the rider. The horse is stiff. Your body positions are important. Your hands are their feet,your chin their chin.Because a horse is an animal of flight. When you do anything that scares,hurts,surprises them,confusion starts and they run. You support your feet with your hands.

clampitt - 2018-08-17 6:56 AM

 Bits are communication devices. You can't push and pull at the same time. Horses work through signals. Clear definite signals. The more you use your reins the less they use their brains. Most all the horses that come here have been pulled on to much to long. The rider braces up against the horse and the horse braces up against the rider. The horse is stiff. Your body positions are important. Your hands are their feet,your chin their chin.Because a horse is an animal of flight. When you do anything that scares,hurts,surprises them,confusion starts and they run. You support your feet with your hands.