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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 374
 
| How many of you know what degrees your horses are shod at? I have had the same horseshoer for 5 years now and you could not find one more dependable, on time and truly concerned. BUT the last shoeing (May) I think he had a brain fart and just like most men would not accept the fact that the they just werent right. He says he always shoes them at 53 degrees but from the day he did them they we all stumbling , clicking really bad. I have never had this problem and today when he came I asked him to go to 55 degrees all around and they look much better. I just wondered how many of you pay attention to that kind of stuff? |
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 Exceptional Baseball Mom
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Location: Wisconsin | All of mine are between 55-56. My farrier is always putting the guage on them. But, it's not always the case, some need to be set at steeper or lower angles depending on their confirmation or soundness issues. 55 is not written in stone. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 374
| What about ones that forge real bad. My ex-racer has such a long stride that even at 55 degrees he still clicks because his back feel will reach up under his front and click the shoes. He has Never overreached and drawn blood. ANy experience with this? |
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Exceptional Baseball Mom
Posts: 6753
Location: Wisconsin | Originally written by Justmeandmy3 on 2004-06-15 1:17 PM What about ones that forge real bad. My ex-racer has such a long stride that even at 55 degrees he still clicks because his back feel will reach up under his front and click the shoes. He has Never overreached and drawn blood. ANy experience with this? Square his back toe off and set that shoe back a little bit. Where is farrierlady when you need her??? |
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 Expert
Posts: 2790
Location: Gainesville, TX | I agree with squaring the toe and setting the show back just a little bit. I have had a horse shod this way that was interferring and this stopped that problem. However, I was at a clinic and asked the big name clinician about doing this. She discouraged it and said she would never have this done because if shortened the horses stride. When I talked to my farrier about it, he said she should stick to training horses and quite trying to theoretically shoe them. He says the quickest way for a horse to STOP working is to hit himself. |
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  Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Originally written by alittleuntwisted on 2004-06-15 2:18 PM
I agree with squaring the toe and setting the show back just a little bit. I have had a horse shod this way that was interferring and this stopped that problem. However, I was at a clinic and asked the big name clinician about doing this. She discouraged it and said she would never have this done because if shortened the horses stride. When I talked to my farrier about it, he said she should stick to training horses and quite trying to theoretically shoe them. He says the quickest way for a horse to STOP working is to hit himself. The attitude sucks.  I do agree with the second thing he says. Horses are not all built the same...therefore the angles that are right for them are not all the same. Most of mine are set up at 55* in front but NOT the rear. If you really step back and look...you will see that most horses hind pasterns are not as steep as the front...some are. So you have to set them up to match themselves...not some arbitrary number.  |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 321
Location: Michigan | What would you do in the case where the back pasterns are not as steep as the front? Can you shoe the back at a lower angle than the front on a horse that really, really gets up under himself? Would you have a problem with overreaching and pulling shoes? I have a horse like I'm describing. We still don't have him shod right and I'm not an advocate of squaring his back feet off. We may try to set those shoes back some and see if that helps. Thanks for the post and the replies on this. |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Originally written by RockinH on 2004-06-15 1:55 PM Originally written by Justmeandmy3 on 2004-06-15 1:17 PM What about ones that forge real bad. My ex-racer has such a long stride that even at 55 degrees he still clicks because his back feel will reach up under his front and click the shoes. He has Never overreached and drawn blood. ANy experience with this? Square his back toe off and set that shoe back a little bit. Where is farrierlady when you need her??? I don't square the horse's foot I just square the shoe off. It works the same. When a horse is set too low in the heels on the hind foot, they will come farther under themselves and catch the front foot before it can break over and get out of the way. So making sure the hind foot is at the proper angle is the first thing I do...if that doesn't work the next is to square off the shoe. |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Originally written by Zoom on 2004-06-15 2:38 PM What would you do in the case where the back pasterns are not as steep as the front? Can you shoe the back at a lower angle than the front on a horse that really, really gets up under himself? Would you have a problem with overreaching and pulling shoes? I have a horse like I'm describing. We still don't have him shod right and I'm not an advocate of squaring his back feet off. We may try to set those shoes back some and see if that helps. Thanks for the post and the replies on this. Overreaching is caused by a timing problem. If the timing of the front foot leaving the ground and the hind foot reaching the most forward part of the stride happen an instant too late (the front) and too soon (the hind) you will have interference. If my horse overreaches (I have quit using bell boots for all but making a barrel run) the first thing to check are angles....front then hind. Many shoers don't stand a horse up to match their pastern angles. This the major reason for overreaching. IMO  |
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Blessed 
Location: Here | Originally written by RockinH on 2004-06-15 1:55 PM Originally written by Justmeandmy3 on 2004-06-15 1:17 PM What about ones that forge real bad. My ex-racer has such a long stride that even at 55 degrees he still clicks because his back feel will reach up under his front and click the shoes. He has Never overreached and drawn blood. ANy experience with this? I would be care Square his back toe off and set that shoe back a little bit. Where is farrierlady when you need her??? I would be careful of doing this as it can cause hock soreness. I have found if you increase the breakover of the front then you don't have to worry about it. Angle will depend on what your horse's confirmation dictates. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 321
Location: Michigan | How do you increase the breakover of the front? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 374
| I talked to my vet who is also a farrier. He told me that most horses feet are at different angles to begin with, exactly what my horseshoer told me, and that you do have to experiment with different degrees. I am going to try 55 all the way around and see if that helps. He said on a horse like mine, first you have to get the front feet out of the way then work on the back. 55 on the back seems to work the best on all of mine and it looks right. Its hard to tell your horseshoer what "looks" right when all he can talk is angles and that it should be 3 inches from the hairline to tip of shoe. He even busts out his little ruler. Can I go to horseshoeing school now? |
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 Happy Go Lucky
Location: Illinois | The pastern angles are what we look at. Also, 2/3 tip of frog to back of foot and 1/3 from tip of frog to front of foot. Usually the back feet are at a slightly lower angle than the front; however I agree with "getting the front feet out of the way" if a horse tends to reach way under with its hind feet. It really depends on the horse's conformation and having a horse on too steep an angle is just as bad as having too low an angle. |
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Blessed
Location: Here | Originally written by Zoom on 2004-06-15 2:53 PM
How do you increase the breakover of the front? There are alot of different methods including different types of shoes you might try www.farrierfocus.com for more help and maybe a shoer recommendation. |
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 Potato Soup Queen
Location: Alabama | Farrier school's standard answer is: Speed up the front, or slow down the rear. I choose the same method as Oregon BR and Rockin H stated, when I shoe a horse that has that tendency. I square the shoe, not the hoof, and set it back slightly. I also, then rasp upwards from the bottom instead of downward on the dorsal wall. So far, it's worked every time. Debi |
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 Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Phenix City, AL | To increase break over set the shoe back and roll the toe. Some shoes are beveled at the toe to help with breakover if the shoe your farrier uses is not beveled he can easily do this with a grinder and roll the toe of the shoe. On a horse with underrun or low heels I always try to increace the break over. But if you increase it on the front you have to do the same on the back and vise versa. On angles the horse needs to be set to its conformation, then do the rest by modifing the shoes and the breakover point. The back feet will be a few degrees higher than the front. |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Originally written by McElweeFarrier on 2004-06-15 5:03 PM
To increase break over set the shoe back and roll the toe. Some shoes are beveled at the toe to help with breakover if the shoe your farrier uses is not beveled he can easily do this with a grinder and roll the toe of the shoe. On a horse with underrun or low heels I always try to increace the break over. But if you increase it on the front you have to do the same on the back and vise versa. On angles the horse needs to be set to its conformation, then do the rest by modifing the shoes and the breakover point. The back feet will be a few degrees higher than the front. Hi MEF, it's great to have another voice on the board.  Can you clarify the sentence in bold above? I think it depends on the pastern angle...I have had horses that are higher/lower/the same in the hind pastern vs the front.  |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Originally written by Ridafatappy on 2004-06-15 4:49 PM
The pastern angles are what we look at. Also, 2/3 tip of frog to back of foot and 1/3 from tip of frog to front of foot. Usually the back feet are at a slightly lower angle than the front; however I agree with "getting the front feet out of the way" if a horse tends to reach way under with its hind feet. It really depends on the horse's conformation and having a horse on too steep an angle is just as bad as having too low an angle. 
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Phenix City, AL | I guess I should have said usually instead of making it seem it will always be higher. I thought about the way I worded it right after I sent it. Every horse is different and you have to approach every foot with a clear head. What works for one horse will not always work for the other. But it all falls back to the basics. Level foot with the proper angles.Bryan |
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