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 "Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
  
Location: Iowa, LA | I knew that I wasn't crazy! Had to pay several hundred dollars for muscle biopsies to confirm my suspicions, but I was right! Two of my horses have PSSM Type 2 ( both graded as "Moderate"). BOTH hair tested negative for PSSM Type 1.
Please people! Do your research and learn about this DOMINANT GENETIC disorder! There is currently a hair test you can do to identify Type 1, but you HAVE to muscle biopsy for Type 2!
These horses get bad raps for being difficult, broncs, lame, stiff, lazy, hot, crazy, cinchy etc etc etc. They are really HURTING! They don't always tie up, but certainly can. Trainers will say these horses "need a job" or "need to be ridden every day". That is because daily exercise keeps them from hurting....so if given one or two days off, their muscles begin to cramp and hurt.
I will be building a webpage to help inform others of this disorder as I have spent thousands in vet bills and not ONE vet ever mentioned that this could be my horses' problem. It can appear as stifle or hock issues, back issues, sensitive skin issues, etc etc and I believe it is quite common.
Again, your horse does not have to have an actual episode of tying up. Diet and exercise are the key to managing, but some are harder to manage than others. Neither of mine can have grass without showing symptoms! Neither of mine can have any type of "grain" such as corn, oats, and barley. |
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| Have you found any specific bloodlines that are more prone to PSSM? |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | Jenbabe - 2013-07-05 12:35 PM Have you found any specific bloodlines that are more prone to PSSM?
It's pretty much everywhere, but there are certainly some common denominators. You can find out more on the PSSM Facebook Forum. People are adding their pedigrees as they have them tested. |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
Location: Kansas | What is the difference between type 1 and type 2? |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | Here are my two horses' pedigrees that tested positive:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ima+mighty+patriot
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/derby+day+rain
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | hoofs_in_motion - 2013-07-05 12:59 PM
What is the difference between type 1 and type 2?
I will try to link or copy/paste the paperwork from U of M, but not a whole lot. They both can tie up and both need low sugar/starch diets along with daily exercise.
Is there a way to upload a PDF file from my iPhone email? |
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Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| annemarea - 2013-07-05 12:52 PM
Jenbabe - 2013-07-05 12:35 PM Have you found any specific bloodlines that are more prone to PSSM?
 It's pretty much everywhere, but there are certainly some common denominators. You can find out more on the PSSM Facebook Forum. People are adding their pedigrees as they have them tested.
Thanks, I'll go take a look.
So, what are you feeding your PSSM horses? We have one that we suspect is PSSM because he tied up several times under different conditions, was muscle stiff, and is an easy keeper. We pulled him from sweet feed when this started happening, and we haven't had any more episodes of tying up. He is fed alfalfa, because we grow it, and he was on Strategy but now is not getting any grain. The research I saw said alfalfa was a good forage, and that we needed to increase his fat. For awhile we were adding additional fat to his diet per these recommendations, but he seems to be doing just as good if not better with alfalfa only. |
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 Strong Willed Woman
Posts: 6577
Location: Prosser, WA | Â So what made you decide to do the biopsy? |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | Jenbabe - 2013-07-05 1:53 PM annemarea - 2013-07-05 12:52 PM Jenbabe - 2013-07-05 12:35 PM Have you found any specific bloodlines that are more prone to PSSM? It's pretty much everywhere, but there are certainly some common denominators. You can find out more on the PSSM Facebook Forum. People are adding their pedigrees as they have them tested. Thanks, I'll go take a look. So, what are you feeding your PSSM horses? We have one that we suspect is PSSM because he tied up several times under different conditions, was muscle stiff, and is an easy keeper. We pulled him from sweet feed when this started happening, and we haven't had any more episodes of tying up. He is fed alfalfa, because we grow it, and he was on Strategy but now is not getting any grain. The research I saw said alfalfa was a good forage, and that we needed to increase his fat. For awhile we were adding additional fat to his diet per these recommendations, but he seems to be doing just as good if not better with alfalfa only.
Dr Kellon has developed a diet plan for those who can't handle the high fat. You give them ALCAR instead of oils/fat. When I was troubleshooting my mare, all I fed was alfalfa pellets soaked and free choice Bermuda hay. Within a week and a half she was a different horse. Since then I've added natural Vitamin E, flax, and sugar free electrolytes (she had been getting ones with sugar added). I'm waiting to have my next load of hay tested to add anything else besides the oil for now. As far as "feed" she now gets Purina WellSolve L/S. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 705
Location: Weatherford, TX | Thank you for posting this. I too have thought is a much, much bigger problem than QH or Barrel people realize. We diagnosed our horse 9 years ago. It was a huge difference once we fed him different.
Again, thank you for raising awareness. :)
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Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| annemarea - 2013-07-05 2:08 PM
Jenbabe - 2013-07-05 1:53 PM annemarea - 2013-07-05 12:52 PM Jenbabe - 2013-07-05 12:35 PM Have you found any specific bloodlines that are more prone to PSSM? Â It's pretty much everywhere, but there are certainly some common denominators. You can find out more on the PSSM Facebook Forum. People are adding their pedigrees as they have them tested. Thanks, I'll go take a look. So, what are you feeding your PSSM horses? We have one that we suspect is PSSM because he tied up several times under different conditions, was muscle stiff, and is an easy keeper. We pulled him from sweet feed when this started happening, and we haven't had any more episodes of tying up. He is fed alfalfa, because we grow it, and he was on Strategy but now is not getting any grain. The research I saw said alfalfa was a good forage, and that we needed to increase his fat. For awhile we were adding additional fat to his diet per these recommendations, but he seems to be doing just as good if not better with alfalfa only.
Thanks so much for sharing. I'll look into those products. |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | kakbarrelracer - 2013-07-05 2:01 PM
 So what made you decide to do the biopsy?
For the mare it was mere formality and wanting to help researchers identify the Type 2 gene. For the gelding, I was pretty sure after the change I saw from the diet, but his was a slower progress. Again, I wanted to know I wasn't just imagining things and anything I can do to help researchers identify the Type 2 gene, I wanted to do. I submitted blood samples with each biopsy in order for them to have the horses' DNA on file along with their pedigrees. I guess I'm so passionate about it because I saw the HUGE difference it makes in their behavior and they can be so misunderstood because of it. |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | Gator Bug - 2013-07-05 2:13 PM
 Thank you for posting this. I too have thought is a much, much bigger problem than QH or Barrel people realize. We diagnosed our horse 9 years ago. It was a huge difference once we fed him different.Â
Again, thank you for raising awareness. :)
Â
Thanks! It is an absolute shame to ignore those little symptoms that all come from this. With the mare it was mostly a "lameness" issue. She would trip or "step in a hole" in her rear and we treated her back end with everything known to man. Taking her off grass was finally the key. She was also very cinchy and would try to lay down when saddling when she hurt her worst. She only tied up on me once in 5 years. She would turn barrels as though her hocks were bothering her....bunny hopping and stiff.
With the gelding, he, like the mare, was not crazy about being groomed or touched. He, like the mare, dreaded getting saddled and would start getting ancy as soon as he saw me coming with it. He was getting bad reviews from the trainer who started him because of him wanting to buck. I noticed him seeming lazy or short strided when I asked him to trot and he did not want to lope (common sign).
Both of these horses have tummy/ulcer/colic-like issues when hurting. |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | Ok...I have started building the webpage. There is a link to very informative info sent to me by the U of M. I am not finished, but it will give you a general idea. And please, if anyone has any suggetions or corrections that need to be made, let me know. I am too tired to finish it tonight, but will try to complete it this weekend.
You can see it at http://www.twobadgerranch.com/pssm.html
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 Night Watchman
Posts: 5516
Location: Central Montana | How does alfalfa hay play into the diet? |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | GoinJettin - 2013-07-05 11:27 PM How does alfalfa hay play into the diet?
Alfalfa hay will be highest in NSC while Alfalfa cubes will be the next lowest, followed by Alfalfa pellets. Some horses can handle the hay, while I've heard others cannot. Here is a great chart for the Standlee cubes/pellets that you can purchase at TSC. It will show the NSC of all of their cubes/pellets to give you an idea. Ideally you would like to keep the NSC around 10-12% for these horses. You can fudge those numbers some, depending on the amount of work they are given and their individual sensitivities to starch/sugar.
http://www.standleehay.com/FAQ.aspx
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | This post makes me sad. I sold a horse very cheap for "lack of performance" that would fit neatly into the symptoms discussed here. To a Tee. I'm going to send a link to this discussion to his new owners because I'd bet $1000 this is his problem. I had the grain right, but never took him off grass. |
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Night Watchman
Posts: 5516
Location: Central Montana | annemarea - 2013-07-05 10:42 PM GoinJettin - 2013-07-05 11:27 PM How does alfalfa hay play into the diet? Alfalfa hay will be highest in NSC while Alfalfa cubes will be the next lowest, followed by Alfalfa pellets. Some horses can handle the hay, while I've heard others cannot. Here is a great chart for the Standlee cubes/pellets that you can purchase at TSC. It will show the NSC of all of their cubes/pellets to give you an idea. Ideally you would like to keep the NSC around 10-12% for these horses. You can fudge those numbers some, depending on the amount of work they are given and their individual sensitivities to starch/sugar.
http://www.standleehay.com/FAQ.aspx
Thanks for the information.
I was curious, we have always fed Alfalfa hay, as close to as 100% alfalfa as possible. We do not feed free choice........depending on the horse they get between 18-22 pounds of it a day. We have personally never had issues with high protein or attitude changes with it. Maybe no attitude changes because they are always on it and don't get switched back and forth from grass/grass hay/alfalafa. |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | Three 4 Luck - 2013-07-06 9:30 AM This post makes me sad. I sold a horse very cheap for "lack of performance" that would fit neatly into the symptoms discussed here. To a Tee. I'm going to send a link to this discussion to his new owners because I'd bet $1000 this is his problem. I had the grain right, but never took him off grass.
Both of mine did somewhat improve while still on grass, but made major headway once taken off of pasture. That seemed to make the biggest difference. Again, with grasses the sugar levels will greatly fluctuate with seasons, drought, etc. Early morning grass will have its lowest NSC, while late evening grass will have its highest NSC. I tried using a grazing muzzle and even 1-2 hour/day turnout for my mare , but her symptoms would return. I finally just built her a pen to dry lot her with free choice hay. When I put the gelding in with her, he finally began to stand still to be groomed and saddled. So, I know my grass must be pretty high in NSC's. |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | GoinJettin - 2013-07-06 9:44 AM
annemarea - 2013-07-05 10:42 PM GoinJettin - 2013-07-05 11:27 PM How does alfalfa hay play into the diet? Alfalfa hay will be highest in NSC while Alfalfa cubes will be the next lowest, followed by Alfalfa pellets. Some horses can handle the hay, while I've heard others cannot. Here is a great chart for the Standlee cubes/pellets that you can purchase at TSC. It will show the NSC of all of their cubes/pellets to give you an idea. Ideally you would like to keep the NSC around 10-12% for these horses. You can fudge those numbers some, depending on the amount of work they are given and their individual sensitivities to starch/sugar.
http://www.standleehay.com/FAQ.aspx
Â
I was curious, we have always fed Alfalfa hay, as close to as 100% alfalfa as possible.  We do not feed free choice........depending on the horse they get between 18-22 pounds of it a day. We have personally never had issues with high protein or attitude changes with it. Maybe no attitude changes because they are always on it and don't get switched back and forth from grass/grass hay/alfalafa.Â
I think maybe protein got the blame for turning horses into idiots when it was actually the sugars? That's just my experience, but feel free to share yours! LOL I know when my mare was on Vitality, she was a blithering idiot. However, grass and lack of exercise can make her that way, also. I would love to have help videoing her so that others can see the huge difference it makes. She will be a hot crazy beeyatch bronc.... Change her diet and she settles WAY down and no more humping up and wound up... Put her back on the sugars and within 24 hours she becomes symptomatic! This mare had gotten so bad she really would scare me. She is SO much more pleasent now.
When I bought the gelding he was super skittish as though he dreaded anything touching or coming into contact with him. Even after 4 months with a trainer, that never went away. Got him back and he was just so wound up and didn't move in a relaxed manner when I worked him. He hated to be brushed! Took him off grain (Strategy Healthy Edge which really isn't super high in NSC's but these horses need lower) and one day I noticed he was coming up to me in the stall instead of standing in the corner avoiding contact. Then I noticed he wasn't so jumpy about anything coming near him. Then he began to WANT me to rub him and I couldn't get his stall cleaned because he was bugging me for some lovin' the whole time I was in there! I noticed he began to carry his head lower when I would work him in the roundpen and he was moving relaxed instead of looking as though something was chasing him. Then one day he stood still for me to saddle him instead of me chasing him with it. Now this was all slow progress... One day he stood still for me to brush him until I got to his hindquarters and then he began to move away, so it was one area of improvement at a time. |
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