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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
   
Location: Kansas | There must be rate in the water at my house because even my off the track horse has too much of it, so I'm looking for drills to free him up. I know part of my problem is that I sit down too soon a lot of times and I quit kicking too soon a lot of the time, but there has to be a way to teach him to run clear to his spot no matter what. Lord knows my two older horses will take that extra step and cover up my mistakes! Any suggestions?
Second barrel is our biggest challenge - I think we have hit it 4 of the last 5 runs we've made. He has a ton of talent if we can ever start making clean runs consistently but its absolutely maddening hitting a barrel to pull a 1D check so many times. I'm trying to upload our last two videos where we hit the 2nd barrel both times but those are going to be a while. |
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Itchy Boobs
Posts: 360
| Get out in a field and let him run and stretch out |
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 Fred
Location: LEFPD | Have you tried taking him past the barrels straight to the fence? |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | Here's a recent video - have one more from last Saturday uploading now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHqj02EM4GA&feature=youtu.be
I think my biggest problem is that he's so fast that it's hard to DO anything between 1st & 2nd barrels. Everything happens so quickly on him that I don't have time to make adjustments - he is beating me across the pen mentally every time. Honestly I'm scared to death to take him out in a field and breeze him. The sucker ran on the track and his jockey told the owner that he was faster than their horse that ran a 101 speed index.
I've tried going clear to the fence, loping big circles around the barrels, kicking an extra time with spurs/without spurs, using a hand whip on his shoulder midway across the pen, and so far I'm having zero luck getting by that 2nd barrel. I don't know if I just need to keep doing big circles around a barrel to get him convinced that he doesn't have to be right on top of it or if there's something else that would help. When he commits to turn, he turns and doesn't screw around. I have a really nice 1D/rodeo horse in the pen with him and Clifford is significantly more talented than him, so if we can ever get our act together, I might have to take the plunge and get my permit. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1092
Location: OK | At the 12 sec mark on the video, when he starts to get ready, you do too, your left hip drops just a hair. If you put your mouse on the part of the video where the little thing moves across the screen as the video plays and if you click that over and over, it will keep moving the video back to that one place, and you can see it. It's just barely, but I think it's about 2 full strides before you get to the second.
Now, I'm not sure what you should do exactly, but some people step into their outside stirrup at that point and it helps keep him a little straighter a little longer. Some people look over his outside ear.
Someone helped me once on a horse who didn't need much room ,but just a little. She said lifting your hand will get you nowhere, but if in the place in the turn where you need that extra room, instead of lifting up with your inside hand try pulling his nose in, pulling your hand straight to your own hip, it will send his ribs out a hair, which may be just enough to let you get by. Very had to make myself do, but it does work. |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | jojammer - 2013-11-21 11:57 AM At the 12 sec mark on the video, when he starts to get ready, you do too, your left hip drops just a hair. If you put your mouse on the part of the video where the little thing moves across the screen as the video plays and if you click that over and over, it will keep moving the video back to that one place, and you can see it. It's just barely, but I think it's about 2 full strides before you get to the second. Now, I'm not sure what you should do exactly, but some people step into their outside stirrup at that point and it helps keep him a little straighter a little longer. Some people look over his outside ear. Someone helped me once on a horse who didn't need much room ,but just a little. She said lifting your hand will get you nowhere, but if in the place in the turn where you need that extra room, instead of lifting up with your inside hand try pulling his nose in, pulling your hand straight to your own hip, it will send his ribs out a hair, which may be just enough to let you get by. Very had to make myself do, but it does work.
I remember seeing that I caused that barrel to go down by dropping my outside rein too soon. I wish I had more videos but about 2/3 of the time I run 3 horses and Matt runs 2 so its hard to get them split enough to tape each other, and Clifford seems to be the one we miss the most.
I'm confused about stepping into the outside stirrup when he's shutting down. Seems like that would send him even harder into the barrel. 
Did I do the same thing in this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFrFM8LTiE0&feature=youtu.be |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1092
Location: OK | You didn't look the same there, he did just get really short, watching his stride, he got just really ratey. I think you went to the horn about a stride? out.
You might just not need to drop your outside until your leg is even with the barrel.
I'm not sure about stepping in the outside stirrup either, I don't ride that way, but I've had it recommended to me several times, and I've seen some good riders in runs look like they are leaning to the right when heading to the second barrel.
Personally, I just like to be in the middle, but it must work if so many do it....
I have the same problem right now and before I started working him out of it, I decided to take him to the vet. Turned out, his hocks were mega sore. He was trying to save himself I guess. So now that he's injected and better, I'll start again. |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | You need to read ALL of this, I see you are doing what I was doing on my second barrel, too wide going in! Give them too much room and they will get it for sure, lots of great suggestions in this thread!
http://forums.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=440093&posts=48&mid=6861407&highlight=&highlightmode=1&action=search#M6861407 |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | jojammer - 2013-11-21 12:16 PM You didn't look the same there, he did just get really short, watching his stride, he got just really ratey. I think you went to the horn about a stride? out. You might just not need to drop your outside until your leg is even with the barrel. I'm not sure about stepping in the outside stirrup either, I don't ride that way, but I've had it recommended to me several times, and I've seen some good riders in runs look like they are leaning to the right when heading to the second barrel. Personally, I just like to be in the middle, but it must work if so many do it.... I have the same problem right now and before I started working him out of it, I decided to take him to the vet. Turned out, his hocks were mega sore. He was trying to save himself I guess. So now that he's injected and better, I'll start again.
I have thought several times that there could be a soreness problem with him for various reasons - never getting short at the 2nd barrel though - and have had him vet checked twice this year looking for a physical problem. Both times the vet has found nothing wrong with him, nothing at all. My vet is a big Clifford fan and asks about him even when I take either of my other horses in. |
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  Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4553
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | Go 2 handed until your almost past the barrel. If you feel him getting ready to soon ask him to move away and straighten with your right leg that should keep him straight till your ready for the turn. your holding his nose in to long allow him to straighten between barrels. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 668
Location: MN | I was told a horse moves away from pressure, so stepping to the outside would send him into the barrel. I have the same problem with my horse. I ride 2 handed longer, carry a whip on the inside, and by finishing my first and getting lined up better. Less room going in to the barrel will help too. Good Luck!! |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | all3up - 2013-11-21 2:54 PM
I was told a horse moves away from pressure, so stepping to the outside would send him into the barrel. I have the same problem with my horse. I ride 2 handed longer, carry a whip on the inside, and by finishing my first and getting lined up better. Less room going in to the barrel will help too. Good Luck!!
When someone says to step to the outside on a horse like this, it can and does work. The thing of it is, you have to basically "hang yourself out into nothing". It's not a matter of putting your weight into your outside foot, which would cause your outside beat bone to move your horse in. You literally have to move yourself to a spot where the horse is already moving away from you and you find yourself almost stepping off into the abyss. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 306
| A drill that worked best for me was riding straight past the second to the fence in slow work. Stopping. Roll back away from the barrel and circle the first barrel again. Repeat 2 or 3 times and then circle the second being sure to make them step past a little wider on that second. I also did this with a friends gelding who had issues bowing off the second and third because he wasn't giving himself enough room coming in. He wraps them tight now.
But alot of it is the rider sitting too early in a run.....I'm Guilty! lol |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| Young horses are tattle-tales. If they are doing something wrong, there's a good chance the rider is telling them to do it. Looks like you need to ride two handed longer. Don't even worry about kicking past. Just lean forward and make sure he is really running between your hands. Looks like he wants to move out anyway, so I would be mainly concerned with guiding him to the correct spot before asking for the turn. Then when you get all the way to the barrel drop the outside rein and ask for the turn. Shorter reins will make it eaiser to accomplish this. In both videos, you move and then so does he. It is really important you ride the same way every time, otherwise they can start second guessing and create a whole mess of other problems. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 816
| 3Kis**** - 2013-11-21 3:15 PM
A drill that worked best for me was riding straight past the second to the fence in slow work. Stopping. Roll back away from the barrel and circle the first barrel again. Repeat 2 or 3 times and then circle the second being sure to make them step past a little wider on that second. I also did this with a friends gelding who had issues bowing off the second and third because he wasn't giving himself enough room coming in. He wraps them tight now.
But alot of it is the rider sitting too early in a run.....I'm Guilty! lol
This ^^^ works really well, just repeat the exercise until you can feel that he's not anticipating and dropping in. I also agree with making your pocket smaller. When you have a horse that has hit the same barrel multiple times we tend, or I at least I do, stop pushing them to the barrel because I want to try to control them, I start shifting my weight then, raising my hands up, instead of riding them into the turn and using their own momentum to clear it and carry them around.
Edited by JRC 2013-11-21 3:28 PM
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 I"m Jealous!
Posts: 1737
Location: Benton City, WA | I just watched the second video ...Wow he looks like he is really coming along nicely! Very exciting!
I notice a change in your body posture just prior to the second barrel, you go into a "defensive" mode and it looks like you kinda take ahold of your inside rein, and pray, lol.
Stepping into the outside stirrup thing...has helped me a ton. I learned it a couple years ago from a master at it (Lance Graves). But before you would do that at a run, first you have to teach the horse to follow your weight. He calls it weight broke. So if I lean back, horse slows down. Lean forward, speed up. Hit inside stirrup is step around to the inside . Outside stirrup is step to the outside. Its just another cue that you teach them to respond to in a run. I'm sure it also works how Wrapsnap describes, I just don't do it that exaggerated, I would probably fall off.
Every one of my horses gets taught in their slow work and everyday riding to pick up their shoulder and move to the outside going into the barrel if I ask with my body weight. That way if you need to get an extra step in your run, you have an easy/effortless way to communicate that to your horse, without having to use a inside spur or bat.
It works for me, but I'm probably doing a poor job explaining it...I think Clifford looks awesome though!!!! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1092
Location: OK | If you think if it like weight on your own shoulders, and someone was sitting on you and leaned to the inside, you have to step to the inside to stay balanced. and yes, Lance is a good one to watch to get this theory. |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | jojammer - 2013-11-21 9:57 AM Someone helped me once on a horse who didn't need much room ,but just a little. She said lifting your hand will get you nowhere, but if in the place in the turn where you need that extra room, instead of lifting up with your inside hand try pulling his nose in, pulling your hand straight to your own hip, it will send his ribs out a hair, which may be just enough to let you get by. Very had to make myself do, but it does work. Going along with what you said, I thought of this video of Danyelle Campbell...I saw this the other day...
go to 6:40.
http://youtu.be/sGg1DopSuFk
Edited by hammer_time 2013-11-22 12:26 AM
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Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | It looks like you need to sit on your butt going to the second. Almost lean back. You get really up and over and he stiffens up. |
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Veteran
Posts: 133
| Try looking at a spot on fence past the barrel you look to me like you might be looking at the barrel i had the same problem.Just drive him to that spot he looks like he's gonna turn just push and don't look down at barrel he's going to go where your looking.I learned this at a josey clinic. |
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