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 Can You Hear Me Now?
  
Location: When you hit the middle of nowhere .. Keep driving | I skimmed through it in the America's Horse magazine a few days ago and have thought a lot about it since. We are heavily breeding certain lines because they sell better then others due to a few performers (in some cases a lot of performers). We don't give unknown lines as much of a chance to prove themselves... What do you think AQHA might do to combat this? If anything... As the gene pool decreases more issues and illnesses might arise too. Thoughts?
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 Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | As it is becoming harder and harder to find the older sucessful running bloodlines that I like. I worry about it. Who will we out cross on when all we have are DFC, FWF, FG's
Edited by equussynergy 2013-11-23 3:03 PM
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 Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
 
Location: ND | don't worry....we will have plenty of clones.... |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | dhdqhllc - 2013-11-23 2:47 PM
don't worry....we will have plenty of clones....
Result =  |
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  Ms. Potato Head
Posts: 9162
Location: BFE, Idaho | I am no longer in the breeding business(and when I was small scale around 8 broodmares).
The style of horse and working type are a dying breed.
I got out when it was change to AI frozen or cooled and then embryo and on and on.
I remember about 13 years ago I stopped for an overnight stop at a former AQHA presidents facility in TX, it was not a minute after I unloaded my mare that he came over and walked around her, took her leadrope and asked, you from one of those hidden pockets in ID or WY. I said from Idaho he said humm, not many real quarter horses left. You guys guard them so well, hope you keep guarding them when we need some decient blood to save the breed.
I think we are close to this day, and so many of the old breeders out here I knew are done and gone. A BIG JMO of course. |
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Can You Hear Me Now?
Location: When you hit the middle of nowhere .. Keep driving | Idaho - 2013-11-23 4:20 PM
I am no longer in the breeding business(and when I was small scale around 8 broodmares).
The style of horse and working type are a dying breed.
I got out when it was change to AI frozen or cooled and then embryo and on and on.
I remember about 13 years ago I stopped for an overnight stop at a former AQHA presidents facility in TX, it was not a minute after I unloaded my mare that he came over and walked around her, took her leadrope and asked, you from one of those hidden pockets in ID or WY. I said from Idaho he said humm, not many real quarter horses left. You guys guard them so well, hope you keep guarding them when we need some decient blood to save the breed.
I think we are close to this day, and so many of the old breeders out here I knew are done and gone. A BIG JMO of course.
I agree with you. It just sucks that people will only pay for the popular bloodlines and those who make a living of it have to either switch or suffer.
I read an article where they were talking about other breeds that they might introduce to help the breed, it sucks that it has gotten to this point because we have a nice mix of bloodlines in the past that people aren't breeding anymore.
Edited by ndiehl 2013-11-23 4:35 PM
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Can You Hear Me Now?
Location: When you hit the middle of nowhere .. Keep driving | dhdqhllc - 2013-11-23 3:47 PM
don't worry....we will have plenty of clones....
Lets not open this can of worms again... If they lose I will be switching to Appy's |
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 Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | They will likely outcross on cow/working lines that are popular. I don't think you really can get people to stop wanting to breed popular lines to other popular lines because they sell well and win a lot and at the end of the day that is what rates pretty high on the list like it or not. I think there are some nice cow horses that can run that will cross well on running breds that people will try down the road. |
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 Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | Idaho - 2013-11-23 3:20 PM I am no longer in the breeding business(and when I was small scale around 8 broodmares).
The style of horse and working type are a dying breed.
I got out when it was change to AI frozen or cooled and then embryo and on and on.
I remember about 13 years ago I stopped for an overnight stop at a former AQHA presidents facility in TX, it was not a minute after I unloaded my mare that he came over and walked around her, took her leadrope and asked, you from one of those hidden pockets in ID or WY. I said from Idaho he said humm, not many real quarter horses left. You guys guard them so well, hope you keep guarding them when we need some decient blood to save the breed.
I think we are close to this day, and so many of the old breeders out here I knew are done and gone. A BIG JMO of course.
I totally agree with you. You are one of my heros. |
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | this is what the market has demanded from the breed.....it's a high performance specific environment......the days of the actual working environment are mostly gone....those still involved need the hot bloodlines to make a business out of it.....or a lot of money to get their bloodline noticed....there will always be pockets....although even those are slowly becoming a concentrated amount of genetics on their own.....honestly, you can thank what a lot of folks run down as back yard breeders with horse that haven't 'proven' anything for still maintaining some genetic diversity.... |
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 Saint Stacey
| I have a hard time buying the Bottleneck breeding. Main reason being is look at the way breeding was done back in the 1800's. The gene pool was much smaller back then and the breed has thrived and grown. Case and point... Leo.
My mom has saved the Speedhorse Stallion Registers since they started doing them. Back in the early to mid 80's EVERYTHING was Dash For Cash, Special Effort and Easy Jet. You look in those books and think wow.... the breed has no out source and is bottlenecking.
Guess what? You look at the register today and everything is Corona Cartel and First Down Dash. The DFC, SE and EJ is getting further and further back and it looks like a bottleneck once again, but it really isn't because 3 or 4 hot young sires will pop up that will have an impact and those "bottlenecked" bloodlines will get further and further back.
The other thing to think about is we have more sires now and the ability to breed to them then ever before.
Go back far enough in just about every horses pedigree and you know what you will find? That even back in the 1800's with the likes of Peter McCue, Steel Dust and those old TB sprinting bloodlines that all pretty much trace back to Eclipse himself ... there appears to be a bottlenecking problem. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 540
Location: My own little world :) | I also worry about this. I think we are getting far too specialized for each event that we participate in and therefore we breed for what does best. Back in the day it seemed like horses were used more for the all around rather than just a specialized area. For example, Zan Parr Bar was a halter horse but was also very athletic and good at roping. And if you look at pictures of him he looked super athletic! I'd like to see the halter horses of today go rope. But it seems like we breed for the consumer and the consumer wants performance and hot bloodlines. I agree with bloodlines to a degree and think that there are for sure proven bloodlines but sometimes I think that people should be more willing to take a chance on a no namer. You never know what could happen. How did all the big shots start out? But I also understand the financial gamble associated with that. I am facing that with a filly I have. I would like to futurity her and she is bred decently well but not with anything that is super hot right now. But she is super smart and super good looking! I think in this day and age we could use going back to judging a horse more on their conformation and individual abilities rather than what their mommas or daddies did. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I think the comments are too narrow minded, not all the horses are big race horse bloodlines, the ones I look at yes as I want the best possible chance to have a winning barrel horse.
Look at Sunfrost, he is not a barrel sire, he was working cow, and he produced bozo, Frenchmans guy and dinero
Peptoboonsmal horses are also starting to show their barrel potential in Canada
I also think there are going to be many barrel performers with highbrow cat bloodlines
Then we also have the show world which I have no knowledge of, I am guessing they are not breeding DFc, FDD, etc. didn't shining spark start out in western pleasure classes, and he has crossed over.
With the appendix registries and the option to get aqha papers with an si or points, I can't see aqha having too much of an inbreeding problem as there will always be a thoroughbred thrown into the mix |
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | cheryl makofka - 2013-11-24 12:00 AM I think the comments are too narrow minded, not all the horses are big race horse bloodlines, the ones I look at yes as I want the best possible chance to have a winning barrel horse. Look at Sunfrost, he is not a barrel sire, he was working cow, and he produced bozo, Frenchmans guy and dinero Peptoboonsmal horses are also starting to show their barrel potential in Canada I also think there are going to be many barrel performers with highbrow cat bloodlines Then we also have the show world which I have no knowledge of, I am guessing they are not breeding DFc, FDD, etc. didn't shining spark start out in western pleasure classes, and he has crossed over. With the appendix registries and the option to get aqha papers with an si or points, I can't see aqha having too much of an inbreeding problem as there will always be a thoroughbred thrown into the mix
i think that's a really good set of points..... |
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Ms. Potato Head
Posts: 9162
Location: BFE, Idaho | Yes, AQHA is deversified but to far.
They need to almost have different registries types,
I.E. Quarter horse/ Hunter Type
Quarter horse/ Racing
Quarter horse/ Ranch Type
Quarter horse/Western Show type
Quarter horse/Conformation type(halter)
We are there already just have to stamp the types on papers.
There are exceptions to the rule in all of the above but the standards are already in place. You do not see many 17.2 hh hunter types switching to roping........Not saying good or bad just the way it has become. You would get a more acurate breed type by seperating it at this point. |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I'm not too worried. Look what Blazin Jetolena has done for the barrel horse gene pool- opened it way up. You can outcross FG, DTF, FWF, OTMR, just about any race bred mare to him and not get too much overlap.
Slick By Design is a Designer Red out of Dreams of Blue- hello outcross again!! Same deal.
Confederate Leader- threw in some hellacious racing blood into the barrel horse world. Yet another stallion who can outcross on all the FGs, DTFs, FWFs, etc…
I have a friend who buys horses by that Seven S Sparks Gold horse. I think that's his name. All their horses are super nice. here's another outcross that's working.
Tres Seis has opened up diversity to the barrel pen as well… so has Ivory James. I think we are going to have more and more options if we just look for them. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Agree. With the addition of TB blood possible... I would not worry. That alone allows for plenty out outcrossing. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Idaho - 2013-11-24 11:36 AM
Yes, AQHA is deversified but to far.
They need to almost have different registries types,
I.E. Quarter horse/ Hunter Type
Quarter horse/ Racing
Quarter horse/ Ranch Type
Quarter horse/Western Show type
Quarter horse/Conformation type(halter)
We are there already just have to stamp the types on papers.
There are exceptions to the rule in all of the above but the standards are already in place. You do not see many 17.2 hh hunter types switching to roping........Not saying good or bad just the way it has become. You would get a more acurate breed type by seperating it at this point.
I have to disagree with you, what you are proposing would just be a money grab.
We already have too much politics in the breeding industry why would we want more |
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 Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
Location: That part of Texas | Zanadoo88 - 2013-11-23 11:01 PM I also worry about this. I think we are getting far too specialized for each event that we participate in and therefore we breed for what does best. Back in the day it seemed like horses were used more for the all around rather than just a specialized area. For example, Zan Parr Bar was a halter horse but was also very athletic and good at roping. And if you look at pictures of him he looked super athletic! I'd like to see the halter horses of today go rope. But it seems like we breed for the consumer and the consumer wants performance and hot bloodlines. I agree with bloodlines to a degree and think that there are for sure proven bloodlines but sometimes I think that people should be more willing to take a chance on a no namer. You never know what could happen. How did all the big shots start out? But I also understand the financial gamble associated with that. I am facing that with a filly I have. I would like to futurity her and she is bred decently well but not with anything that is super hot right now. But she is super smart and super good looking! I think in this day and age we could use going back to judging a horse more on their conformation and individual abilities rather than what their mommas or daddies did.
I just want to say that both Zan Parr Bar and Impressive were awesome roping horses. I think that gets lost in their records and history at times. I have a friend with studs from both of them that breeds horses for mainly ranch work and roping and it shows up in the pedigrees from each and how the horses perform. I agree though -- are there any top halter horses winning today that are crossing over into roping or ranch work? You could take both of those well-known sires, win in the show ring and be roping on them the next day. It's sad to me that we are not breeding for the all-around horse as much anymore. |
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | casualdust07 - 2013-11-24 11:58 AM I'm not too worried. Look what Blazin Jetolena has done for the barrel horse gene pool- opened it way up. You can outcross FG, DTF, FWF, OTMR, just about any race bred mare to him and not get too much overlap. Slick By Design is a Designer Red out of Dreams of Blue- hello outcross again!! Same deal. Confederate Leader- threw in some hellacious racing blood into the barrel horse world. Yet another stallion who can outcross on all the FGs, DTFs, FWFs, etc… I have a friend who buys horses by that Seven S Sparks Gold horse. I think that's his name. All their horses are super nice. here's another outcross that's working. Tres Seis has opened up diversity to the barrel pen as well… so has Ivory James. I think we are going to have more and more options if we just look for them.
blazin jetolena, slick by design, and maybe treis seis are decent examples....
ivory james, confederate leader and Seven s are not.......
TB genetics help......but the overall quarter horse percentages are getting tighter.......just due to continued decline in breeder diversity and overall general use of the horse.....diversity of genetics grew as the original breed grew and accepted horses and declines as the opposite occurs........
what hasn't been thrown in is the decrease in quality diverse genetics....it's one thing to have diverse genetics but a different to have quality genetics that are diverse.... |
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