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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
   
Location: South Central Florida | This may have been discussed, but does anyone know if and how they are going to do the drug testing at the NFR?
I'm just curious how it will work. Like every horse every run? Random horses on each run? Winners only on each run?
I would think drawing blood on every run would be a tad taxing on any horse x 10, and some will place just about every run.
Just my mind wandering curious if anyone knows. |
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 Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
 
Location: Way up North | I would think it would be random if they are actually even doing it. I can't see them drawing blood on fifteen horses for ten rounds, especially beings some of those horses will be run all ten rounds. Can you imagine the costs on 150 blood tests? Plus I sure wouldn't want blood pulled on my horse ten days in a row especially if they are also a bleeder and already getting stuck for lasix. (I have no idea if WPRA allows lasix or not, just an example.) |
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Location: Keeping up with the numbers! | I have no idea about testing at the NFR, but I do know they tested at the WPRA finals in Waco. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | BeanCounter - 2013-12-01 5:55 PM
I have no idea about testing at the NFR, but I do know they tested at the WPRA finals in Waco.
Do you know how they did it? I was thinking more about the poor horses being stuck so much even more than the cost. But I also think if your going to test...then test. This would be the main environment I think you would want to know.
I'm not sure I'm a big fan of testing yet. I don't mind the testing, but I don't really like the current rules as I understand them. I don't run in the WPRA, so it's just an observation, but I'm just not sure it's clear or fair. I understand what they are trying to do and eliminate and I like the idea, but not the way they are doing it.
just my opinion. I will be curious about the NFR though and how they are going to implement it.
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 The Non Sky Diver
Posts: 9004
Location: SE Louisiana | It has been talked about here before.... with a lot of squawking.... I bet there would be more squawking if they tested the riders instead of the horses....  |
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Veteran
Posts: 256
| Swannranch - 2013-12-01 5:03 PM
BeanCounter - 2013-12-01 5:55 PM
I have no idea about testing at the NFR, but I do know they tested at the WPRA finals in Waco.
Do you know how they did it? I was thinking more about the poor horses being stuck so much even more than the cost. But I also think if your going to test...then test. This would be the main environment I think you would want to know.
I'm not sure I'm a big fan of testing yet. I don't mind the testing, but I don't really like the current rules as I understand them. I don't run in the WPRA, so it's just an observation, but I'm just not sure it's clear or fair. I understand what they are trying to do and eliminate and I like the idea, but not the way they are doing it.
just my opinion. I will be curious about the NFR though and how they are going to implement it.
Wouldnt they just **** test them? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | Komet - 2013-12-01 6:11 PM It has been talked about here before.... with a lot of squawking.... I bet there would be more squawking if they tested the riders instead of the horses....
 Years ago, I groomed for a top Grand Prix Jumper Rider...........I can say she had way more drugs and booze on board than her horses. Did she win, you bet she did. She got more out of a horse than most people dream of getting! She is still a first class, "get er done" type of horsewoman and I have always had a lot of respect for her. She takes 1st class care of her horses but she does expect 110% from her riders. |
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 Talent Agent 
Location: OK panhandle | My mom got tested at Salinas, it was random, just depended on your number, they've done it at few rodeos this year, all been random, including short go's. I haven't heard anything about NFR, but imagine they will. |
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 Ace Ventura Pet Detective
Posts: 2411
Location: Wisconsin | Wouldnt that be interesting |
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 Colored Jean Queen
Posts: 1282
Location: TX | I've heard from an inside source, there's no way they will be able to get testing done at the NFR |
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 Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country | The drug testing that has been done has shown that there isn't a drug problem in the WPRA. The same people are winning and have tested negative. Im sure USEF will keep taking the money the WPRA keeps throwing away by using their lab for these tests. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | I went back, again, and did a search about the WPRA and drug testing. I can only find 6 threads in the last 2 years, and 2 of them were not really discussions, 1 was a question about the fines and penalties.
I don't really understand what the "dead horse" post meant. No one really answered the few questions asked in the last 2 years and I think it's a relevant subject.
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Swannranch - 2013-12-01 9:30 PM I went back, again, and did a search about the WPRA and drug testing. I can only find 6 threads in the last 2 years, and 2 of them were not really discussions, 1 was a question about the fines and penalties.
I don't really understand what the "dead horse" post meant. No one really answered the few questions asked in the last 2 years and I think it's a relevant subject.
I would've sworn it's been discussed and cussed more than that. It IS a very good question!
Maybe several of the previous threads were zapped into neverneverland? |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | ozcancrasher13 - 2013-12-01 10:18 PM The drug testing that has been done has shown that there isn't a drug problem in the WPRA. The same people are winning and have tested negative. Im sure USEF will keep taking the money the WPRA keeps throwing away by using their lab for these tests.
I hope this is true. I have heard of several positive tests but not what it was positive for, and suspentions and fines...but they were kept quiet. I hope what I heard was not true, but they were in the top jocky's in the nation.
Maybe if they find nothing they will eventually drop it, or change it to just illegal drugs?
But back to my original question. . .I thought I remembered last year that the testing started with the new year, so they announced they would be testing at the NFR, but then they changed it and said the NFR was subject to the '12 rules and it would not happen until '13 NFR. So, I guess we'll never know for sure.
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I've heard enough accounts of people who were notorious for doping their horses, to the extent that it was "common knowledge". I don't know why it's such a controversial topic. It's pretty clear to me that there's a definite role for testing for performance enhancing drugs. This whole matter needs to be cleaned up, particularly at the higher levels of competition. Obviously, it's not feasible to drug test at every small, Podunk rodeo, or every jackpot, but if the WPRA has a policy in place, then it ought to be applied. I don't think every horse needs to be tested every day, as many of the PEDs can be detected for several days after they are ingested. If horses are to be tested, then the collection process should be random, and witnessed. It seems to me that the most challenging aspect of this is determining what constitutes a "performance enhancing drug", and then going from there. If it is considered to be "cheating" when humans use PEDs, then it's cheating when barrel racers dope their horses with the same objective in mind. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | HotbearLVR - 2013-12-02 9:55 AM I've heard enough accounts of people who were notorious for doping their horses, to the extent that it was "common knowledge". I don't know why it's such a controversial topic. It's pretty clear to me that there's a definite role for testing for performance enhancing drugs. This whole matter needs to be cleaned up, particularly at the higher levels of competition. Obviously, it's not feasible to drug test at every small, Podunk rodeo, or every jackpot, but if the WPRA has a policy in place, then it ought to be applied. I don't think every horse needs to be tested every day, as many of the PEDs can be detected for several days after they are ingested. If horses are to be tested, then the collection process should be random, and witnessed. It seems to me that the most challenging aspect of this is determining what constitutes a "performance enhancing drug", and then going from there. If it is considered to be "cheating" when humans use PEDs, then it's cheating when barrel racers dope their horses with the same objective in mind.
I agree with this. My current understanding of the policy as of now, is kind of weird. There are rules about Bute and Banamine and Equioxx, but they stated (from WPRA in old threads I looked up) that they were not looking for that. But if it's in the rules??? How and who gets to decide which drugs you will ignore and which you are going to enforce. Add to that, the rules do state that the penalties and fines are subject to the committee. So does that mean it's not the same for everyone? If illegal drugs are found, why wouldnt they be disqualified and out for the year? I guess I am just not sure of the way it's stated. But I would think the NFR would be the most likely place someone might use something so should be testing there.
Determining what exactally is a PED, to me, is the question. But in large part, that is still a very opinion based decission. For some...everything is a PED, Lasix, Adequan, Bute, Trihist. For others none of those are a problem but the big ones are illegal anyway (I don't even know what most of them are even after it was explained to me).
Some issues should be managed by your personal vet, and youself together, but illegal is ILLEGAL.
I also think posting the findings would be a major deterant. If someone I know was doping, is selling horses, I would like to know that. It would effect my decission. Also publication would assure the rules are being regulated fairly.
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | It seems to me that certain "drugs" such as Legend and Adequan shouldn't be banned. Neither should NSAIDS like Bute or Banamine. In fact, I'm not sure certain bronchodilators should be banned, provided a vet is willing to provide documentation that a horse has reactive airway disease. Clearly, certain stimulants and anabolics have no place, though. |
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Boot Detective
Posts: 1900
| It is my understanding that reasonable amounts of bute, banamine, Lasix, etc.....are allowed provided your vet furnishes them a statement with a few days of being tested. I would love to know who has been tested, fined, and suspended just out of curiosity. I have a feeling I know who one is. It may be purely coincidental but I noticed a couple horses quit performing near as well after the drug testing began. IMO, they should test at the NFR if they are going to test all year long but I doubt they do because of the negative publicity that would result if someone did get suspended or results changed.  |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | HotbearLVR - 2013-12-02 10:41 AM It seems to me that certain "drugs" such as Legend and Adequan shouldn't be banned. Neither should NSAIDS like Bute or Banamine. In fact, I'm not sure certain bronchodilators should be banned, provided a vet is willing to provide documentation that a horse has reactive airway disease. Clearly, certain stimulants and anabolics have no place, though.
I agree with this!!! I don't even know what or how Frog Juice works...even though it was explained to me. It sounds so dangerous. I have also been told that cocaine is common which makes no sense to me. Having never used anything like that, in my mind it would just make a horse run CRAZY, not collected and neat which makes good runs. BUT they are both illegal under any circumstances....so. . . . .
Also, I have seen it argued here that running a horse on bute or banamine is cruel and if the horse needs it, he should not be running. I DISAGREE, but again, it's an opinion. Adequal and Legend seem fine, but in a totally NO PED's environment...they seem like PEDs. I mean, our mare is 12, when she needs her hocks injected....she does not run well...hocks done and adequan back on board...she runs way better. So for some, thats a PED. |
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Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country | I will, again, say no problems have been found when tested. A positive test does not mean a problem.
They tested for everything...legal drugs, illegal drugs or narcotics.
The people accused of winning due to doping, were not when tested, and they are still winning.
Had I been tested, my horse would have tested positive, but NOT OVER THE LEGAL LIMITS, on LEGAL DRUGS. Still, I would have a positive test.
This is what the tests have shown.
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