|
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 928
  
Location: Northern CA | Looking at buying a yearling futurity prospect. I will have navicular radiographs of her front feet, and also want radiographs of her stifles and hocks to rule out OCD. What xray views are going to be the most telling? |
|
| |
|
  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
 
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | when we were trying to see what was wrong with my 6yr old, they wedged the x ray thing up in his flank as high as I could lift it facing his tail and another one as high as we could get it inside his thigh. This was a portable machine and he had to be drugged because he wouldn't hold still for it. Hocks take I think 3 views to get a good idea of what is going on. |
|
| |
|
 Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | why would this be necessary on a yearling????? and if a yearling is that concerning that it leads you down a path of this much evaluation, unless it is some kind of super horse prospect, why bother????? and even then, radiographs really aren't going to tell you much about future prognosis....unless you want to use the results as a bargaining point..??? |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 455
| dhdqhllc - 2013-12-03 10:37 AM
why would this be necessary on a yearling????? and if a yearling is that concerning that it leads you down a path of this much evaluation, unless it is some kind of super horse prospect, why bother????? and even then, radiographs really aren't going to tell you much about future prognosis....unless you want to use the results as a bargaining point..???
agree. |
|
| |
|
 Canine Carryout Queen
Location: Oklahoma | I sold a green broke 3 year old this year and the buyer was adiment about not just an exam but radiographs and all sorts of stuff ... I told her that was fine -- it was her money to spend - x ray every joint if she wanted .... my vet said the same thing -- its her money, but shes never heard of x raying these young ones feet... especially back feet, .... but she was paid and she did it. All went well and she passed with flying colors and horse was sold and they love her! It worked out great for everyone -- just a lot of extra cost for the vet check imo |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 928
Location: Northern CA | dhdqhllc - 2013-12-03 9:37 AM why would this be necessary on a yearling????? and if a yearling is that concerning that it leads you down a path of this much evaluation, unless it is some kind of super horse prospect, why bother????? and even then, radiographs really aren't going to tell you much about future prognosis....unless you want to use the results as a bargaining point..???
Disagree. OCD is somewhat common in performance horses and the signs do not show up until there are of training age and in training. Why would I risk the heart ache of purchasing a prospect, spending the time and money, only to have them come up lame a couple months into training? Xrays will detect about 90% of OCD cases, so a few hundred dollars for a pre-purchase will save me the several thousand in purchase price, the labor of starting a potentially crippled horse, and will give up a good baseline should problems develop down the road. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 928
Location: Northern CA | Runnin < C > - 2013-12-03 10:13 AM I sold a green broke 3 year old this year and the buyer was adiment about not just an exam but radiographs and all sorts of stuff ... I told her that was fine -- it was her money to spend - x ray every joint if she wanted .... my vet said the same thing -- its her money, but shes never heard of x raying these young ones feet... especially back feet, .... but she was paid and she did it. All went well and she passed with flying colors and horse was sold and they love her! It worked out great for everyone -- just a lot of extra cost for the vet check imo
I somewhat agree with the feet, but after having a young mare diagnosed with "navicular disease" I am a bit paranoid, though I could probably forego those. The OCD films on the other hand I feel are very necessary, and stifle and hock joints are the most common for OCD. |
|
| |
|
Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | halter_ego - 2013-12-03 12:18 PM dhdqhllc - 2013-12-03 9:37 AM why would this be necessary on a yearling????? and if a yearling is that concerning that it leads you down a path of this much evaluation, unless it is some kind of super horse prospect, why bother????? and even then, radiographs really aren't going to tell you much about future prognosis....unless you want to use the results as a bargaining point..??? Disagree. OCD is somewhat common in performance horses and the signs do not show up until there are of training age and in training. Why would I risk the heart ache of purchasing a prospect, spending the time and money, only to have them come up lame a couple months into training? Xrays will detect about 90% of OCD cases, so a few hundred dollars for a pre-purchase will save me the several thousand in purchase price, the labor of starting a potentially crippled horse, and will give up a good baseline should problems develop down the road.
Exactly!
I've been down the OCD trail on a colt we didnt vet. After having stifle surgery done we still ended up having to put him down. It was the worst experience ever. We vetted another prospect after that we were looking at and the stifles showed OCD lesions. We passed and that was the cheapest pre-purchase exam EVER compared to what the time and surgery cost us with the previous one. |
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 641
Location: Michigan | I have a yearling that I bred and raised myself. I'm a vet student so I'm paranoid by nature, and had our hay analyzed and had her on a mineral supplement since weaning, and also balanced the grass hay with alfalfa cubes. I did all kinds of calculations and talked with my professors to try to give her the best start possible (and no I was NOT trying to over condition her, I kept just enough of her ribs showing that I was confident I wasn't giving her too much nutrition to grow too quickly).
I noticed that it seemed like she rested one hind leg more than the other and I went back and forth for a couple months trying to decide if I was just being paranoid. There no heat, swelling, or lameness. I came on some extra money and called the vet out for xrays- and he flat out told me she didn't have OCD. Well-- he called me that night and ate his words. She ended up having OCD chips in 3 fetlocks that needed to come out surgically.
You say you want a futurity prospect- I'd definitely get xrays done. You'd rather find out now than before you put all the time and money into training and campaigning one. Having said that- I don't think I would get navicular views done. I think the odds of anything navicular showing up on a yearling would have to be very unlikely. I would consider fetlocks instead of navicular views but that's my experience. My vet charged $120/joint for digital xrays. For 6 joints that would run $720- yes that is a lot of money- but that is less than a month of training at some of the big names. Also- the surgery for getting 3 chips removed before my student discount is $2100- not including hundreds of dollars in bandage changes and $300 for an Adequan series post-op. There's my two cents. |
|
| |
|
Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | i guess maybe i can see that for OCD issues......still can't for nav........i'm curious what bloodlines are more consistantly prone ot OCD?? |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 428
Location: God's country | I would also get X-rays. I had a foal born a month early & the vet said if she hadn't been confined to a stall she would have severe wedging of her hock joints. So when looking at a prospect that you don't know 100% of their history, I would definitely X-ray hocks and stifles. JMO |
|
| |
|
 It Goes On
Posts: 2262
Location: Muskogee, OK | If the money is there and you are willing to spend it I would get the common joints affected by OCD--- fetlock, hock, stifle. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | There are SO MANY variables that contribute to a successful performance horse.........structual soundness, mental soundness, over temperament and CONFORMATION. Then how does this all come together when you add the trainer's expertise, personality, etc.
If I were looking to buy a futurity prospect for any type of performance discipline and would wait until they have been started under saddle either late in their 2yo year or early in their 3yo year. At least you would have a better grasp of what the horse can or can not do not to mention whether you can get along with that horse. All those x-rays can be done at that time as well. Plus, somebody else has taken on the liability of raising and training for another year hoping the horse doesn't get hurt or sick. |
|
| |
|
Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| hotpaints - 2013-12-03 6:21 PM There are SO MANY variables that contribute to a successful performance horse.........structual soundness, mental soundness, over temperament and CONFORMATION. Then how does this all come together when you add the trainer's expertise, personality, etc.
If I were looking to buy a futurity prospect for any type of performance discipline and would wait until they have been started under saddle either late in their 2yo year or early in their 3yo year. At least you would have a better grasp of what the horse can or can not do not to mention whether you can get along with that horse. All those x-rays can be done at that time as well. Plus, somebody else has taken on the liability of raising and training for another year hoping the horse doesn't get hurt or sick. Agree- a yearling is also so much more apt to hurt themselves than a two-year old, let the one who raised him pay the vet bills on the baby- that's my opinion anyway, after having to pay for lots of juvenile catastrophes!
eta: just curious- what is this special yearling?
Edited by trickster j 2013-12-03 8:10 PM
|
|
| |
|
The Expert Expert
Posts: 3455
Location: Western performance horse Hades | More of the top professionals are buying yearlings because they can a) break them how they want them and b) that might be the only age they can afford the top genetics. |
|
| |
|
 Buttered Noodles Snacker
Posts: 4377
Location: NC | zipper - 2013-12-04 8:19 AM More of the top professionals are buying yearlings because they can a) break them how they want them and b) that might be the only age they can afford the top genetics.
Even though it cost more in long run to feed and care for a horse for an extra year, for some people it is easier to pay a little more a month in care, then a much bigger purchase fee.... Also if the horse has everything you want, may not want to wait and see if another like it comes up for sale in your price range at a year older. Also some people may want to try and get one before someone else starts trying to start them undersaddle or put too much pressure on them... |
|
| |
|
Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| zipper - 2013-12-04 7:19 AM More of the top professionals are buying yearlings because they can a) break them how they want them and b) that might be the only age they can afford the top genetics.
Yes- that makes sense. Weanlings and yearlings are cheaper than two-year olds with some education on them. Thanks! :) |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 928
Location: Northern CA |
"There are SO MANY variables that contribute to a successful performance horse.........structual soundness, mental soundness, over temperament and CONFORMATION. Then how does this all come together when you add the trainer's expertise, personality, etc.
If I were looking to buy a futurity prospect for any type of performance discipline and would wait until they have been started under saddle either late in their 2yo year or early in their 3yo year. At least you would have a better grasp of what the horse can or can not do not to mention whether you can get along with that horse. All those x-rays can be done at that time as well. Plus, somebody else has taken on the liability of raising and training for another year hoping the horse doesn't get hurt or sick."
Let me start off by saying, this will be a reined cow horse futurity prospect. We futurity our horses as 3 year olds, which means this filly will have to be started ASAP. Second, I start and train my own. I want to make my own, I do not want to pay someone else to ride my horses. Third, I cannot afford to buy a horse of this breeding after she has been started and fed by someone else for a year. Yes, it may cost me money to keep this filly for a year and feed her, but I will have to pay for it as a 2 year old in her increased purchase price anyway.
I have done my homework. Most performance trainers buy their horses as yearlings, that is why the biggest performance horse (cow horse and cutting anyways) sales are yearling sales. With the breeding and records now a day, it is fairly easy to trace conformation and hereditary soundness, as well as mental soundness and temperment.
Edited by halter_ego 2013-12-04 9:58 AM
|
|
| |
|
Impressive!!
Posts: 1954
Location: Idaho | dhdqhllc - 2013-12-03 9:37 AM why would this be necessary on a yearling????? and if a yearling is that concerning that it leads you down a path of this much evaluation, unless it is some kind of super horse prospect, why bother????? and even then, radiographs really aren't going to tell you much about future prognosis....unless you want to use the results as a bargaining point..???
Most of OCD occur in weanlings to yearlings. If you can find it early on and get the chip out as a yearling, there won't be so much damage when they are older. We just found two OCD chips in my 6 yr old mare. She has been running two years and had a decrease in her performance, xrays showed a chip in each fetlock. I personally xray all my up coming colts from now on. If we would have caught it when she was a yearling, there would be no damage, but she actually did have damage from the chips. So I agree with OP... if you can afford it, DO IT. |
|
| |
|
 "Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | I'll give you some great examples of pre-purchase exams! I spent thousands last year on three seperate exams. Let me start with one I purchased several years ago:
Jug was vetted at 3 1/2 and was sore in left front ankle, but vet chose to only X-ray front ankle that he reacted when flexed. I bought him with a clean ankle X-ray but he was later found to have an OCD lesion in his left stifle. $2700 surgery. X-ray would have been way cheaper, but I probably would not have bought the greatest horse I've ever owned.
Cricket was a superbly bred magic cross DTF/Lanes Leinster yearling that I vetted last year. He ended up having an OCD lesion AND a fractured coffin bone even though he moved and flexed off fine. His vet check cost me around $1500 but he was an $18K investment and I chose to pass.
Charlie was a much cheaper yearling prospect that was bred decent, and spent about $800 on vetting him. Everything came out clean and I purchased, but a month later he broke his leg in the pasture and had to be put down.
Then I vetted a Perks. Master 3 year old a few weeks later. I don't have the time to type all that X-rays found. $700 down the drain but saved me $8500.
Next I decided on Derby, the horse listed in my ad. He was 2 and X-rays were beautiful and we even scoped him for respiratory/flapper issues. Passed with flying colors! Spent about $1000 on vet check but ended up having PSSM Type 2. So, after investing nearly $8K on purchase price and training, I now have a high maintenance gelding that requires more time than I have to keep him feeling good.
These are just some of my experiences with vet checks saving and not saving me money in the long run! LOL Hope you can learn from my experience, but I, myself, will continue to spend a little up front if I can avoid investing time and money into a prospect that won't make it. |
|
| |
Folks on-line