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 Veteran
Posts: 224
Location: Southern OK aka God's Country | Since I am not a trainer, I have to use them occasionally for babies/tune ups/etc. What I've noticed over the years is that 1) rates have doubled and 2) 30 days no longer necessarily means 30 rides. For the trainers on here, if you are charging $600-800/month (i.e. 30 days), do you feel that you should get 30 rides in before sending the horse home, whether you have to keep the horse a week or 2 extra, or is it the new normal that you get whatever rides in you can in 30 days regardless of what you get accomplished with the horse? What is normal? (I ask this because I have a colt at a trainer and he's been there 5 weeks and had 10 rides, which seems somewhat under par when the rate is $800/month).
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Location: Philly | from personal experience over the past several years (including this year).
The trainers that seem to charge a little less and may be a little less well known will charge by the 30 ride rule and the trainers that know they will get horses no matter what will charge by the 30 day rule. For the latter you just have to weed through the ones that will ride them as much as possible. |
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
 
| I charge separately for the rides and the feed bill. I have to cover the feed, so they get charged for each day the horse is here. And then I charge for each actual ride. We occasionally send horses to the feed yard, and the guy that rides for us makes sure that we get the number of rides we asked for. He will however tell us if he thinks the horse needs to come home early or needs to stay longer.
Regardless of if they were charging by days or rides, I'd be wondering why my horse only had 10 rides in 5 weeks. I like to ride a minimum of 5 days a week, and on some of these younger ones that are getting shorter rides I'll go more days before giving them a break. But they really aren't doing much for your horse if he's being ridden that sporadically. If the weather is to blame, I can understand. And I know that sometimes life gets in the way, I've been there. But if they weren't ready to put the time into your horse they should have had you wait to send him to them. |
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 Chasin my Dream
Posts: 13651
 
Location: Alberta | Just a thought, have you talked to the trainer about your concerns?
Just a general question (for anyone) doesn't anybody talk to their trainer and ASK questions when you drop the horse off as to what you expect and what the trainers plan will be....and get updates...to plan accordingly with each horse!?
I don't want it to come off as rude, but we see so many threads like this....I seriously want to know....
I never feel bad about shooting the trainer I use a text with an update, he is a great horseman and would straight out say horse needs to stay longer if he knows it's not to the point I need it to be at......
Edited by dream_chaser 2013-12-05 8:50 AM
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Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| dream_chaser - 2013-12-05 8:41 AM
Just a thought have you talked to the trainer about your concerns?
Just a general question (for anyone) doesn't anybody talk to their trainer and ASK questions when you drop the horse off as to what you expect and what the trainers plan will be....and get updates...to plan accordingly with each horse!?
Excellent points. |
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Veteran
Posts: 224
Location: Southern OK aka God's Country | dream_chaser - 2013-12-05 8:41 AM
Just a thought, have you talked to the trainer about your concerns?
Just a general question (for anyone) doesn't anybody talk to their trainer and ASK questions when you drop the horse off as to what you expect and what the trainers plan will be....and get updates...to plan accordingly with each horse!?
I don't want it to come off as rude, but we see so many threads like this....I seriously want to know....
The weather was to blame for at least one week, and we are about to get hit again, so next week is probably a wash. I talk to her about once a week to see how he's progressing, and went and watched her ride him last weekend. When he wasn't to where I expected him to be after 5 weeks, she said he'd only had about 10 rides (which is what it looked like, if that). This is a trainer that I was essentially trying out because she's closer to my area. In comparison to the girl I normally use who moved, there really is no comparison so far because the previous trainer was a hand and would have them doing something the first week. I'm just left trying to decide if it's the horse or the trainer that's inhibiting the progress. She is claiming that she is having to start from scratch with him, and that his temperment is limiting the progress to date, but that once he decides to come around he'll be a really nice horse. She just doesn't want to push him or "get into a fight" with him. While I agree he needed more human interaction when I took him there, from what I could tell he was not a dangerous or ignorant horse, he was just a baby with a little hotter bloodline than I normally ride.
I do realize that they have to charge per day for feed/board, but it would seem that if you charge $800/month for 30 days, then that would include more than 10 rides for that $800. She says that she'll make the money work in the end to get him going, so we'll see. I try not to micromanage people, but I plan be more proactive than what I have been to date (I think the last trainer spoiled me a little, and I'll be going back to her in the spring for sure regardless of the drive). |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| My trainer has been training horses for me for 8 years. He puts 30 rides on, he includes the feed costs in his price which he is still on the cheaper end for the area. Most of the horses he sends home have more buttons and trained better then people who send to different trainers for two months.
Again in your situation I would be asking questions as I am not paying for a months feed when the horse has only been rode 5 times. The trainer better have a good excuse, and I still would object to paying.
I would suggest finding a different trainer ask for references, speak to people in your area and see who they use. The good trainers don't advertise they have to advertise as they have enough business |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
Location: Kansas | I pay per ride, rather than paying for 30-90 days of being at the trainer and only having a certain # of rides. And my trainer comes to my place. |
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 Grandaughter of a Champion
Posts: 2956
Location: left field | We charge by the ride and then daily for feed. Then everyone is happy and all is fair. |
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 Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | i think having to pay $450/month is pricey enough when i need a little catch up....usually ends up being about six weeks to get 30 rides on...things happen though and they are still boarding a horse so that doesn't bother me.....the situation described in this thread would lead to a serious conversation with the trainer and me though.... |
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Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | I expect whatever was agreed to. I would not leave my horse with someone who only puts 10 rides on a horse in a month, though. The last time I had one in for training, she kept him 10 extra days. I offered to pay more for board, but since I had brought my own grain, she didn't charge me anything. |
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 Blaines and Beauty
Posts: 1431
| I put the full 30 rides on one, no matter if we have to keep the horse an extra week or two due to weather conditions, non-horse related functions we have to attend, etc. We charge $650 a month, and that is just for tune up, training on barrels, ranch work, etc., we do not break horses anymore. We supply feed and hay also for that price. It seems like you are getting duped to me. Did you have a contract or anything that you signed with the trainer? Or any information on a website? Most people will list somewhere what their training program is - like worked at least 5 days a week, how much they charge to take a horse to a show, etc. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 816
| 30 days, 6 days on 1 day off and I am covering all the feed. At the end of the month we'll sit down and discuss if the horse needs more time or is ready to be taken home. Every horse progresses differently. Anytime within the 30 days I encourage the owner to come watch and participate. |
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Veteran
Posts: 224
Location: Southern OK aka God's Country | FlyinByU - 2013-12-05 9:33 AM
I put the full 30 rides on one, no matter if we have to keep the horse an extra week or two due to weather conditions, non-horse related functions we have to attend, etc. We charge $650 a month, and that is just for tune up, training on barrels, ranch work, etc., we do not break horses anymore. We supply feed and hay also for that price. It seems like you are getting duped to me. Did you have a contract or anything that you signed with the trainer? Or any information on a website? Most people will list somewhere what their training program is - like worked at least 5 days a week, how much they charge to take a horse to a show, etc.
No contract. An enforceable contract would be hard to draft when there are so many different variables in training a horse, and honestly, I try to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise (except in sale situations where a lot of money is involved, I fully believe in CYA). Contracts are all well and good but they are just a piece of paper unless you go to court to enforce them and that costs a lot of money (usually more than the dispute is even over), and time and headache and the end result is uncertain except for extremely hard feelings on all sides. Reputation goes a long way in the horse world, and she seemed to have a good one, and probably still does to a lot of people in her expertise (which is not barrel horses).
We discussed the gameplan ahead of time (colt rider rides him 1-3 days, then she would take over), and I don't feel like I should be calling her every day and asking if she rode him and why or why not. This is yet another life learning experience, and I was just curious about what goes on elsewhere to make sure I wasn't way off base in being skeptical. At 30 days, I called and talked to her and she expressed that he was not where he needed to be, so I left him another week and then went and watched her ride him. I was not really happy with his progress, but I agreed to leave him another 2 weeks. She seemed to think he was right on the edge of coming around, so we'll see. Hopefully she will stick to her word and make the money relative to the rides/boarding expenses. If not, then she won't get any more business from me. Simple as that. |
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Expert
Posts: 1414
| awest - 2013-12-05 10:20 AM We charge by the ride and then daily for feed. Then everyone is happy and all is fair.
Same here. Works best for everyone. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | 10 rides in 5 weeks???? Before I tell you what I would have to say to your trainer, did you send this colt in knowing he was going to need a lot of handling and ground work before she could put the first ride on him? Or did you send him with a lot of that done and ready to go? There's a big difference if the colt wasn't even halter broke and she now has 10 rides on him in the first 5 weeks and if the colt had lots of ground training, maybe already been saddled, etc before he got there and she's only put 10 rides on. |
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Veteran
Posts: 224
Location: Southern OK aka God's Country | BamaCanChaser - 2013-12-05 10:16 AM
10 rides in 5 weeks???? Before I tell you what I would have to say to your trainer, did you send this colt in knowing he was going to need a lot of handling and ground work before she could put the first ride on him? Or did you send him with a lot of that done and ready to go? There's a big difference if the colt wasn't even halter broke and she now has 10 rides on him in the first 5 weeks and if the colt had lots of ground training, maybe already been saddled, etc before he got there and she's only put 10 rides on.
I bought him as a 2 year old coming 3, and was told that he had had 30 days this spring. I took him straight from the seller's place (who is a friend of mine) where he had been kicked out for several months to the trainer. I told her that he supposedly had 30 days, but warned her when I dropped him off that her "30 days" and what this colt had in 30 days were probably not the same. And I was right on that part--what he had in his initial 30 days must have been just exposure to human beings and maybe being saddled a few times, maybe a couple of buck outs. So she informed me early that she was having to start him pretty much as if he were a fresh 2 with basic groundwork and handling. So I would expect that to take up the first week or 2. But he was not a wild mustang or completely devoid of human interaction, no. |
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Blaines and Beauty
Posts: 1431
| SoonerLawyer - 2013-12-05 10:09 AM
FlyinByU - 2013-12-05 9:33 AM
I put the full 30 rides on one, no matter if we have to keep the horse an extra week or two due to weather conditions, non-horse related functions we have to attend, etc. We charge $650 a month, and that is just for tune up, training on barrels, ranch work, etc., we do not break horses anymore. We supply feed and hay also for that price. It seems like you are getting duped to me. Did you have a contract or anything that you signed with the trainer? Or any information on a website? Most people will list somewhere what their training program is - like worked at least 5 days a week, how much they charge to take a horse to a show, etc.
No contract. An enforceable contract would be hard to draft when there are so many different variables in training a horse, and honestly, I try to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise (except in sale situations where a lot of money is involved, I fully believe in CYA ). Contracts are all well and good but they are just a piece of paper unless you go to court to enforce them and that costs a lot of money (usually more than the dispute is even over ), and time and headache and the end result is uncertain except for extremely hard feelings on all sides. Reputation goes a long way in the horse world, and she seemed to have a good one, and probably still does to a lot of people in her expertise (which is not barrel horses ).
We discussed the gameplan ahead of time (colt rider rides him 1-3 days, then she would take over ), and I don't feel like I should be calling her every day and asking if she rode him and why or why not. This is yet another life learning experience, and I was just curious about what goes on elsewhere to make sure I wasn't way off base in being skeptical. At 30 days, I called and talked to her and she expressed that he was not where he needed to be, so I left him another week and then went and watched her ride him. I was not really happy with his progress, but I agreed to leave him another 2 weeks. She seemed to think he was right on the edge of coming around, so we'll see. Hopefully she will stick to her word and make the money relative to the rides/boarding expenses. If not, then she won't get any more business from me. Simple as that.
Did she have to do a lot of groundwork with the colt first or was he ready to get on and go? If she did several days of something like ground driving or something like that, I would understand. However, if he has been there five weeks, even if she had to ground drive him for a while and get him bit broke better, he should have had way more than just 10 rides. I agree, you shouldn't have to hover over her and see what day she has/hasn't rode the horse. I hope she sticks to her word also because right now, it just sounds like the horse should be much further along, especially for $800.
ETA: You just answered my questions while I was typing this...lol
Edited by FlyinByU 2013-12-05 10:31 AM
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  Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | In my barn 30 days means 30 rides/30 days of working the horse. It may not be 30 rides, especially if the horse is unstarted & needs a lot of ground work done. In some cases 30 days may only be 10 or so rides & it may mean 25 rides, it just depends on the individual colt. Because I do not have anywhere out of the weather to ride it can sometimes take me quite a while to get 30 days in, our ground is clay so if it rains it stays slippery for quit a while & I'm not willing to risk working a colt on slick ground & getting either of us hurt. |
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Veteran
Posts: 224
Location: Southern OK aka God's Country | SaraJean - 2013-12-05 10:36 AM
In my barn 30 days means 30 rides/30 days of working the horse. It may not be 30 rides, especially if the horse is unstarted & needs a lot of ground work done. In some cases 30 days may only be 10 or so rides & it may mean 25 rides, it just depends on the individual colt. Because I do not have anywhere out of the weather to ride it can sometimes take me quite a while to get 30 days in, our ground is clay so if it rains it stays slippery for quit a while & I'm not willing to risk working a colt on slick ground & getting either of us hurt.
Thank you, that helps set some parameters, and that seems to be in line with what I'm getting from her thus far. |
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