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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
    
Location: Kansas | Just wanting to know what BB's find is the best way to treat ulcers....and to also prevent them. Wanting to learn some new information! | |
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 BHW's Lance Armstrong 
Posts: 11134
Location: Somewhere between S@%&# stirrer and Saint | Aah I will let them comment!
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Addicted to Baseball
Location: Where the stars at night are big and bright, TX | We initially treat with Omeprazole, then we put the horse on Succeed. Best product we've ever used. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 816
| Omeprazole or Ranitidine(lower cost) - treatment
Preventative:
Lots of turn out, alfalfa, small frequent feeds, low starch feed, aloe juice, rice bran for energy instead of feeds using sugar as the energy source, give probiotics. | |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| Treatment:
2 L- Glutamine capsules twice a day or dried cabbage (heals gut)
2tsp Slippery Elm Powder twice a day
1tsp Licorice Root Powder twice a day
Prevent:
1tsp Slippery Elm Powder twice a day
1/2tsp Licorice Root Powder twice a day. 1 week on 1 week off & the day of a race. | |
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  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | JRC - 2013-12-12 1:14 PM
Omeprazole or Ranitidine(lower cost) - treatment
Preventative:
Lots of turn out, alfalfa, small frequent feeds, low starch feed, aloe juice, rice bran for energy instead of feeds using sugar as the energy source, give probiotics.
This
Not necessarily alfalfa but constant forage is a must have. And turnout. And low starch QUALITY feed. You can't feed junk & expect good results.
I add THE Ulcer Preventative to my Muscle Mass order every time. I have yet to have an issue with ulcers. Mine are outside 24/7 with a round bale free choice. We haul with hay bags and never let them have an empty stomach. Even the gelding I had with a history of bleeding ulcers had zero issues on our program. He's fat & sassy on GOOD feed with constant turnout. That's the key. As natural as possible. And if you HAVE to grain, choosing a high quality, high fat, high fiber, low starch feed.
Edited by hlynn 2013-12-12 1:03 PM
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | hlynn - 2013-12-12 12:02 PM JRC - 2013-12-12 1:14 PM Omeprazole or Ranitidine(lower cost) - treatment Preventative: Lots of turn out, alfalfa, small frequent feeds, low starch feed, aloe juice, rice bran for energy instead of feeds using sugar as the energy source, give probiotics. This Not necessarily alfalfa but constant forage is a must have. And turnout. And low starch QUALITY feed. You can't feed junk & expect good results. I add THE Ulcer Preventative to my Muscle Mass order every time. I have yet to have an issue with ulcers. Mine are outside 24/7 with a round bale free choice. We haul with hay bags and never let them have an empty stomach. Even the gelding I had with a history of bleeding ulcers had zero issues on our program. He's fat & sassy on GOOD feed with constant turnout. That's the key. As natural as possible. And if you HAVE to grain, choosing a high quality, high fat, high fiber, low starch feed.
I agree with hlynn
how you feed and what you feed can be a great preventative in itself. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 5290
| If your going to use the slippery elm, Licorice root, route, Smooth Run makes a product called Gastrosmooth that has all of that in it. One scoop a day, not need to combine ingredients. I leave grass hay in front of mine 24/7 and also use an acid buffer before I haul and compete. Considering the Aloe Vera juice route but they can become dependent on it I have heard. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 410
| Have a horse that had hind gut ulcers tried the omephrozine (sp?) that the BB on here sells. I did not notice a change. Sorry but its true. Put him on FORCO and he bloomed. Put on weight attitude changed. So I say FORCO and its pretty reasonable priced | |
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A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | RoadToVegas - 2013-12-12 3:39 PM
Have a horse that had hind gut ulcers tried the omephrozine (sp?) that the BB on here sells. I did not notice a change. Sorry but its true. Put him on FORCO and he bloomed. Put on weight attitude changed. So I say FORCO and its pretty reasonable priced
Omeprazole won't heal HIND gut ulcers. You would need a product like EquiShure that is specifically designed for HIND gut acidosis. | |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
Location: Kansas | hlynn - 2013-12-12 1:02 PM JRC - 2013-12-12 1:14 PM Omeprazole or Ranitidine(lower cost) - treatment Preventative: Lots of turn out, alfalfa, small frequent feeds, low starch feed, aloe juice, rice bran for energy instead of feeds using sugar as the energy source, give probiotics. This Not necessarily alfalfa but constant forage is a must have. And turnout. And low starch QUALITY feed. You can't feed junk & expect good results. I add THE Ulcer Preventative to my Muscle Mass order every time. I have yet to have an issue with ulcers. Mine are outside 24/7 with a round bale free choice. We haul with hay bags and never let them have an empty stomach. Even the gelding I had with a history of bleeding ulcers had zero issues on our program. He's fat & sassy on GOOD feed with constant turnout. That's the key. As natural as possible. And if you HAVE to grain, choosing a high quality, high fat, high fiber, low starch feed.
She's on free choice brome/prairie hay and she sits on the bale all day. At races I always make sure she has a hay bag in front of her. She has 24/7 turnout, she was on ultium but I pulled everyone off grain. I'm going to start feeding my weanling, so I will put her back on ultium when I grain daily again. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 410
| hlynn - 2013-12-12 2:41 PM
RoadToVegas - 2013-12-12 3:39 PM
Have a horse that had hind gut ulcers tried the omephrozine (sp?) that the BB on here sells. I did not notice a change. Sorry but its true. Put him on FORCO and he bloomed. Put on weight attitude changed. So I say FORCO and its pretty reasonable priced
Omeprazole won't heal HIND gut ulcers. You would need a product like EquiShure that is specifically designed for HIND gut acidosis.
Thank you for that info! To the OP make sure you know what kind of ulcers your horse has before picking a treatment! | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 410
| My next question is why don't the companies who sell these ulcer medicines say that they will not treat hind gut ulcers. They say everything else in detail other than that fact. | |
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A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | RoadToVegas - 2013-12-12 3:53 PM
My next question is why don't the companies who sell these ulcer medicines say that they will not treat hind gut ulcers. They say everything else in detail other than that fact.
Subclinical acidosis is not the same as EGUS. Gastric ulcers are in the stomach. Hind gut ulcers are due to Lowe pH in the hind gut. So the same treatment will not work. Hind gut or subclinical acidosis is treated by products that get the entire GI tract in better condition. That's why a product like Forco helps. Succeed and EquiShure are designed to help at risk horses keep their gut in optimal health.
Gastric ulcers are treated by dealing with the acid in the stomach. This is why omeprazole has no effect on hind gut issues. It is only designed for stomach issues.
Edited by hlynn 2013-12-12 3:15 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 410
| hlynn - 2013-12-12 3:13 PM
RoadToVegas - 2013-12-12 3:53 PM
My next question is why don't the companies who sell these ulcer medicines say that they will not treat hind gut ulcers. They say everything else in detail other than that fact.
Subclinical acidosis is not the same as EGUS. Gastric ulcers are in the stomach. Hind gut ulcers are due to Lowe pH in the hind gut. So the same treatment will not work. Hind gut or subclinical acidosis is treated by products that get the entire GI tract in better condition. That's why a product like Forco helps. Succeed and EquiShure are designed to help at risk horses keep their gut in optimal health.
Gastric ulcers are treated by dealing with the acid in the stomach. This is why omeprazole has no effect on hind gut issues. It is only designed for stomach issues.
Are they always going to be really prone to getting hind gut ulcers again? Or are you ok fixing them and just keeping an eye on them? | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 410
| hlynn - 2013-12-12 3:13 PM
RoadToVegas - 2013-12-12 3:53 PM
My next question is why don't the companies who sell these ulcer medicines say that they will not treat hind gut ulcers. They say everything else in detail other than that fact.
Subclinical acidosis is not the same as EGUS. Gastric ulcers are in the stomach. Hind gut ulcers are due to Lowe pH in the hind gut. So the same treatment will not work. Hind gut or subclinical acidosis is treated by products that get the entire GI tract in better condition. That's why a product like Forco helps. Succeed and EquiShure are designed to help at risk horses keep their gut in optimal health.
Gastric ulcers are treated by dealing with the acid in the stomach. This is why omeprazole has no effect on hind gut issues. It is only designed for stomach issues.
Also just because I am curious what would you say is the difference between FORCO and Fasttrack? | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 816
| hlynn - 2013-12-12 1:02 PM JRC - 2013-12-12 1:14 PM
Omeprazole or Ranitidine(lower cost) - treatment
Preventative:
Lots of turn out, alfalfa, small frequent feeds, low starch feed, aloe juice, rice bran for energy instead of feeds using sugar as the energy source, give probiotics. This Not necessarily alfalfa but constant forage is a must have. And turnout. And low starch QUALITY feed. You can't feed junk & expect good results. I add THE Ulcer Preventative to my Muscle Mass order every time. I have yet to have an issue with ulcers. Mine are outside 24/7 with a round bale free choice. We haul with hay bags and never let them have an empty stomach. Even the gelding I had with a history of bleeding ulcers had zero issues on our program. He's fat & sassy on GOOD feed with constant turnout. That's the key. As natural as possible. And if you HAVE to grain, choosing a high quality, high fat, high fiber, low starch feed.
Alfalfa has actually been shown to reduce the severity of ulcers. Here is a copy and paste from NCBI. I have also researched this significantly in order to save myself money and stay as natural as possible.
Evaluation of diet as a cause of gastric ulcers in horses.
Nadeau JA, Andrews FM, Mathew AG, Argenzio RA, Blackford JT, Sohtell M, Saxton AM.
Source
Department of Large Animal Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Tennessee, Knoxville 37901-1071, USA.
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
To measure pH, volatile fatty acid (VFA) concentrations, and lactate concentrations in stomach contents and determine number and severity of gastric lesions in horses fed bromegrass hay and alfalfa hay-grain diets.
ANIMALS:
Six 7-year-old horses.
PROCEDURE:
A gastric cannula was inserted in each horse. Horses were fed each diet, using a randomized crossover design. Stomach contents were collected immediately after feeding and 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 12, and 24 hours after feeding on day 14. The pH and VFA and lactate concentrations were measured in gastric juice Number and severity of gastric lesions were scored during endoscopic examinations.
RESULTS:
The alfalfa hay-grain diet caused significantly higher pH in gastric juice during the first 5 hours after feeding, compared with that for bromegrass hay. Concentrations of acetic, propionic, and isovaleric acid were significantly higher in gastric juice, and number and severity of nonglandular squamous gastric lesions were significantly lower in horses fed alfalfa hay-grain. Valeric acid, butyric acid, and propionic acid concentrations and pH were useful in predicting severity of nonglandular squamous gastric lesions in horses fed alfalfa hay-grain, whereas valeric acid concentrations and butyric acid were useful in predicting severity of those lesions in horses fed bromegrass hay.
CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE:
An alfalfa hay-grain diet induced significantly higher pH and VFA concentrations in gastric juice than did bromegrass hay. However, number and severity of nonglandular squamous gastric lesions were significantly lower in horses fed alfalfa hay-grain. An alfalfa hay-grain diet may buffer stomach acid in horses.
Edited by JRC 2013-12-12 3:27 PM
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BHW's Lance Armstrong
Posts: 11134
Location: Somewhere between S@%&# stirrer and Saint | hlynn - 2013-12-12 2:41 PM RoadToVegas - 2013-12-12 3:39 PM Have a horse that had hind gut ulcers tried the omephrozine (sp?) that the BB on here sells. I did not notice a change. Sorry but its true. Put him on FORCO and he bloomed. Put on weight attitude changed. So I say FORCO and its pretty reasonable priced Omeprazole won't heal HIND gut ulcers. You would need a product like EquiShure that is specifically designed for HIND gut acidosis.
True Omeprazole will not heal hind gut ulcers! | |
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A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | RoadToVegas - 2013-12-12 4:16 PM
hlynn - 2013-12-12 3:13 PM
RoadToVegas - 2013-12-12 3:53 PM
My next question is why don't the companies who sell these ulcer medicines say that they will not treat hind gut ulcers. They say everything else in detail other than that fact.
Subclinical acidosis is not the same as EGUS. Gastric ulcers are in the stomach. Hind gut ulcers are due to Lowe pH in the hind gut. So the same treatment will not work. Hind gut or subclinical acidosis is treated by products that get the entire GI tract in better condition. That's why a product like Forco helps. Succeed and EquiShure are designed to help at risk horses keep their gut in optimal health.
Gastric ulcers are treated by dealing with the acid in the stomach. This is why omeprazole has no effect on hind gut issues. It is only designed for stomach issues.
Are they always going to be really prone to getting hind gut ulcers again? Or are you ok fixing them and just keeping an eye on them?
I would always have them on something to prevent it. AND make sure my program was the best possible to prevent any flare ups. Ulcers/acidosis are ugly and can flare up at the drop of a hat. You have to be diligent and know want you're doing and be smart in order to keep them away.
Low starch, high fat feed. As much good forage as possible. And a good supplement never hurts. The hind gut stays healthy as long as the foregut stays healthy. Forage acts as a buffer, and the amount of saliva produced when munching hay provides a good buffer to the acid. And it stays in the gut longer, unlike feed. Small meals and constant feed and minimal stress. Those are the keys | |
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A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | JRC - 2013-12-12 4:26 PM
hlynn - 2013-12-12 1:02 PM JRC - 2013-12-12 1:14 PM
Omeprazole or Ranitidine(lower cost) - treatment
Preventative:
Lots of turn out, alfalfa, small frequent feeds, low starch feed, aloe juice, rice bran for energy instead of feeds using sugar as the energy source, give probiotics. This Not necessarily alfalfa but constant forage is a must have. And turnout. And low starch QUALITY feed. You can't feed junk & expect good results. I add THE Ulcer Preventative to my Muscle Mass order every time. I have yet to have an issue with ulcers. Mine are outside 24/7 with a round bale free choice. We haul with hay bags and never let them have an empty stomach. Even the gelding I had with a history of bleeding ulcers had zero issues on our program. He's fat & sassy on GOOD feed with constant turnout. That's the key. As natural as possible. And if you HAVE to grain, choosing a high quality, high fat, high fiber, low starch feed. Evaluation of diet as a cause of gastric ulcers in horses. Nadeau JA, Andrews FM, Mathew AG, Argenzio RA, Blackford JT, Sohtell M, Saxton AM. Source Department of Large Animal Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Tennessee, Knoxville 37901-1071, USA. Abstract OBJECTIVE: To measure pH, volatile fatty acid (VFA ) concentrations, and lactate concentrations in stomach contents and determine number and severity of gastric lesions in horses fed bromegrass hay and alfalfa hay-grain diets. ANIMALS: Six 7-year-old horses. PROCEDURE: A gastric cannula was inserted in each horse. Horses were fed each diet, using a randomized crossover design. Stomach contents were collected immediately after feeding and 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 12, and 24 hours after feeding on day 14. The pH and VFA and lactate concentrations were measured in gastric juice Number and severity of gastric lesions were scored during endoscopic examinations. RESULTS: The alfalfa hay-grain diet caused significantly higher pH in gastric juice during the first 5 hours after feeding, compared with that for bromegrass hay. Concentrations of acetic, propionic, and isovaleric acid were significantly higher in gastric juice, and number and severity of nonglandular squamous gastric lesions were significantly lower in horses fed alfalfa hay-grain. Valeric acid, butyric acid, and propionic acid concentrations and pH were useful in predicting severity of nonglandular squamous gastric lesions in horses fed alfalfa hay-grain, whereas valeric acid concentrations and butyric acid were useful in predicting severity of those lesions in horses fed bromegrass hay. CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: An alfalfa hay-grain diet induced significantly higher pH and VFA concentrations in gastric juice than did bromegrass hay. However, number and severity of nonglandular squamous gastric lesions were significantly lower in horses fed alfalfa hay-grain. An alfalfa hay-grain diet may buffer stomach acid in horses.
I know this. But some can't afford to feed $15 bales of alfalfa. So I'm saying that ANY forage is better than none. Alfalfa is the best, since the calcium acts as a buffer, just like a Tums would for you. But constant forage of any kind is better than none. | |
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