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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
  
Location: Hogwarts | I just want to preface this with, this is not meant to be antagonistic post but instead an opening for casual debate and trying to understand. What makes you believe in the Bible and everything in it when so much has been found that proves a lot of it to be false? What keeps you believing there is a God? Do you take the Bible literally (like Noah's Flood, Genesis, etc) or a loose interpretation? I just got done taking a class that we discussed the evolution of religion and science and it makes me wonder. I was going to ask some of my religious friends but its finals week, everyone is studying and stressed, so not exactly the best time to have deep in depth conversations about faith and religion haha. Again, not meant to be antagonistic so please no fighting just pleasant conversation/debate. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
 
Location: Midwest | interesting topic | |
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 The Comeback Kid
Posts: 1564
Location: lost in missouri | It is a choice you make to believe or not. I think i choose to believe for a couple of reasons I will give the less serious of them. One being it keeps me in line and out of trouble cause if there is a he!! i dont want to find out the bad way like when i show up on its steps. I dont bible thump and i dont preach to people. I take a loose interpretation
Edited by redracinmo 2013-12-17 10:29 AM
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| For me it is very personal, not a casual conversation. I think a person must find out for themselves and once they know there is no denying it. There may be some loosely intrepreted "scientific" clues that may try to disprove religion, but there are also significant facts that prove religion and God are real. Do you really want to know if it is real or or do you want to know that it isn't? | |
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 Purveyor of unconventional wisdom
Posts: 17112
Location: CA | Many years ago I was on here in a debate with a few folks about the reality of reincarnation, pyschics and such. For every thing I brought up De had an answer. For every question I asked, she had an answer, for every fear i brought up, she had an answer. She got all those answers from the Bible. I am not a big bible reader, I will admit that first off, but I am strong in Jesus. I could tell you stories you would not beleive, but if not for my Lord and Savior, I wouldn't be here right now. My coming out party was quite ummmm exciting. lol Never did she push me, or tell me I was wrong, she would just have the answer. She takes no credit, and gives the glory to the Holy Spirit and God, but I think because of her heart and love of Christ she took me on, and saved my ass. :)
To understand the bible you have to be a history scholar and speak either latin or greek. Our versions aren't quite translated right and the more modern translations aren't even close. Do I believe in the miracles.... :) **** straight I do. I see them here once in a while.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
Location: Hogwarts | That's one of the things we discussed. If religion is completely taken out of the world and atheism strengthened, would their still be morals? I think there would be because I'm an atheist and I believe in the golden rule of do unto others that you would do unto you. But then I'd start to think and I feel on the other hand there are people who really need that looming idea of a greater punishment to stay fairly well on the straight and narrow (not implying you do but the general population as a whole). I don't know. This topic interests me a lot. Religion fascinates me, which is weird because I don't believe in it haha. | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | There are a lot of mistakes in the Bible, but that doesn't diminish my Faith. Humans are imperfect and so what else could you expect from a document that has been copied, edited, and interpreted so many times over the centuries? I know God exists with every cell in my body. Look around at our world--there is nothing random here. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Della&bubba - 2013-12-17 10:31 AM That's one of the things we discussed. If religion is completely taken out of the world and atheism strengthened, would their still be morals? I think there would be because I'm an atheist and I believe in the golden rule of do unto others that you would do unto you. But then I'd start to think and I feel on the other hand there are people who really need that looming idea of a greater punishment to stay fairly well on the straight and narrow (not implying you do but the general population as a whole). I don't know. This topic interests me a lot. Religion fascinates me, which is weird because I don't believe in it haha.
From a science perspective, yes, I believe there would be "morals" or moral code. From an evolutionary standpoint, it is neccessary for human survival, and it is beneficial from a survival standpoint. I am an agnostic, for the record. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 307
Location: Florida | I guess that's what makes it faith and "believing," instead of knowing :)
I have a hard time believing this world WASN'T created, ya know- there's a saddle because there's a saddle maker, there's a house because there's a builder, etc. they didn't just "happen."
I have a lot of friends that believe the Big Bang theory but to my knowledge explosions cause chaos not order, we blow things up to destroy, not create... So I can't get with a theory that essentially claims "There was nothing, then it all blew up and became an organized everything." Lol
im not meaning to sound like I'm talking down either, I'm just saying, in my short years of experience I've never seen something created without a creator, and throughout life, learning and trying to get closer to God I've just become somehow more and more sure :)
My mom always says, yes we believe and we could be wrong and after we die we just die; BUT, what if we're right and nonbelievers are wrong and find themselves standing before God... Now that's a scary "what-if!" | |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| rach.k - 2013-12-17 10:41 AM I guess that's what makes it faith and "believing," instead of knowing :)
I have a hard time believing this world WASN'T created, ya know- there's a saddle because there's a saddle maker, there's a house because there's a builder, etc. they didn't just "happen."
I have a lot of friends that believe the Big Bang theory but to my knowledge explosions cause chaos not order, we blow things up to destroy, not create... So I can't get with a theory that essentially claims "There was nothing, then it all blew up and became an organized everything." Lol
im not meaning to sound like I'm talking down either, I'm just saying, in my short years of experience I've never seen something created without a creator, and throughout life, learning and trying to get closer to God I've just become somehow more and more sure :)
My mom always says, yes we believe and we could be wrong and after we die we just die; BUT, what if we're right and nonbelievers are wrong and find themselves standing before God... Now that's a scary "what-if!"
First of all I like your response. In regards to the highlighted portion...I do know! I also know that others can know as well. | |
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 Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | What makes me believe? Certainly not the theories and writings of men. Honestly, I have had God in my heart, always. I never questioned his existance because I have felt his presence since I was a small child. God and religion are two seperate things. Religion is man's way to God, and some try to make it seem very complicated. The bible is God's textbook on life, his gift of a manuscript designed to guide the people he created in having the life he created them to have. Its perfect. Every question that you could ever have about the foundation of life can be found in the Bible. You just have to look for it, and seek the answers.
Men have been trying to disprove the facts of the Bible for years, but still it endures. If not divinely inspired, how could it have stood the test of time all these years? If just a book written by men, why would it not been thrown out years ago as hogwash? If Jesus Christ were just a man, wouldn't he have been forgotten about long ago?
I have a difficult time understanding how some do not believe in God. Look at the wonders of his creation. How complex we are as human beings, the different animal and plant species - each designed with a specific purpose in the food chain. The oceans, the desert, the Grand Canyon, etc., etc., etc. I feel sorry for those who make it their life's work to try and disprove God's existance, when to embrace him and the teachings of his word (the bible) is what leads to a fulfilling and happy life.
And, I wondered reading your post, what exactly has been found that proves the bible to be false? | |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Hollywood's Fan - 2013-12-17 10:57 AM
What makes me believe? Certainly not the theories and writings of men. Honestly, I have had God in my heart, always. I never questioned his existance because I have felt his presence since I was a small child.  God and religion are two seperate things. Religion is man's way to God, and some try to make it seem very complicated.  The bible is God's textbook on life, his gift of a manuscript designed to guide the people he created in having the life he created them to have. Its perfect. Every question that you could ever have about the foundation of life can be found in the Bible. You just have to look for it, and seek the answers.Â
Men have been trying to disprove the facts of the Bible for years, but still it endures. If not divinely inspired, how could it have stood the test of time all these years? If just a book written by men, why would it not been thrown out years ago as hogwash?  If Jesus Christ were just a man, wouldn't he have been forgotten about long ago? Â
 I have a difficult time understanding how some do not believe in God.  Look at the wonders of his creation. How complex we are as human beings, the different animal and plant species - each designed with a specific purpose in the food chain. The oceans, the desert, the Grand Canyon, etc., etc., etc.   I feel sorry for those who make it their life's work to try and disprove God's existance, when to embrace him and the teachings of his word (the bible) is what leads to a fulfilling and happy life.Â
And, I wondered reading your post, what exactly has been found that proves the bible to be false?
The book, "Misquoting Jesus", has a lot of good info about purposeful changes, and mistakes in our present version of the Bible. There is no question there are mistakes, and that's why you can't take a verse out of context and base a religion on it. However, I do think that taken overall, it's an excellent message in where we came from and how we should live. Just because I don't believe that it is infallible and in the original form of divine inspiration doesn't lessen my Faith one iota. | |
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 Hawty & Nawty
Posts: 20424
| There is a book, "The Case For Christ." written by someone in your shoes who set of to disprove Christ only to realize.... | |
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Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | Three 4 Luck - 2013-12-18 10:07 AM Hollywood's Fan - 2013-12-17 10:57 AM What makes me believe? Certainly not the theories and writings of men. Honestly, I have had God in my heart, always. I never questioned his existance because I have felt his presence since I was a small child. God and religion are two seperate things. Religion is man's way to God, and some try to make it seem very complicated. The bible is God's textbook on life, his gift of a manuscript designed to guide the people he created in having the life he created them to have. Its perfect. Every question that you could ever have about the foundation of life can be found in the Bible. You just have to look for it, and seek the answers.
Men have been trying to disprove the facts of the Bible for years, but still it endures. If not divinely inspired, how could it have stood the test of time all these years? If just a book written by men, why would it not been thrown out years ago as hogwash? If Jesus Christ were just a man, wouldn't he have been forgotten about long ago?
I have a difficult time understanding how some do not believe in God. Look at the wonders of his creation. How complex we are as human beings, the different animal and plant species - each designed with a specific purpose in the food chain. The oceans, the desert, the Grand Canyon, etc., etc., etc. I feel sorry for those who make it their life's work to try and disprove God's existance, when to embrace him and the teachings of his word (the bible) is what leads to a fulfilling and happy life.
And, I wondered reading your post, what exactly has been found that proves the bible to be false? The book, "Misquoting Jesus", has a lot of good info about purposeful changes, and mistakes in our present version of the Bible. There is no question there are mistakes, and that's why you can't take a verse out of context and base a religion on it. However, I do think that taken overall, it's an excellent message in where we came from and how we should live. Just because I don't believe that it is infallible and in the original form of divine inspiration doesn't lessen my Faith one iota.
I don't believe there are mistakes in the bible. Again, I would like to hear specifics. I do believe that people pick and choose a verse here and there and take it out of context, and I don't pretend to understand it all. But God gives me understanding everytime I open the pages, and its funny how it is given at a time when I need it. I can read the same passage over and over and then one day, he opens my understanding to something I was struggling with. | |
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 Wide Darn Open
Posts: 2141
| First off let me say I don't believe because I'm afraid of punishment or hell. I didn't decide to be a Christian just in case there's a god. I believe because I had become aware of my need for a savior and sought out the promises He has made us in His Word. The bible says if we seek Him we will find Him. Those who don't find are those who aren't looking and don't want to find it. He will not force himself on anyone but says if we open the door He will come in.
Religion really has nothing to do with my faith. Religion can be based on anything. We don't get much in this world without going after it so when I read the bible I pray and ask for understanding and so many things have become clear that I didn't understand before. The bible is very true and real and what I have chosen to put my trust in. Faith isn't based on feelings just as love is not. We choose to love even when we don't "feel" that feeling towards someone all the time.
I think non belief is rooted in pride. We as humans sometimes think we have all the answers and control when oftentimes we can't even exercise self control. There is no doubt a power greater than us and our beings cannot be explained by science alone. We are spiritual beings and not just flesh and blood.
I think if you're looking to prove or disprove God you won't get the answers you're looking for. It's like trying to fix an illness with the wrong medicine. Faith is of the heart and not something someone is going to show you in a science lab. Our relationship with God is just like our relationship with others. It only grows stronger and you only grow closer by actively seeking and working toward that closeness and by spending time getting to know that person...seeking out who they are. When you know Him you'll see the manifestations in your life and He will become very real to you. I'm sorry I'm not that good with words but I'm glad you brought this discussion to the board it's the most important thing we can discuss!  | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1409
| Wanting to find ultimate, spiritual truth in religion will never happen.
Following Jesus is not a religion or denomination. Religion is man's inventions of different denominations, different rules, sects, different interpretations, man's different ways and ideas to know about God, and different ways to worship God. To know the truth all of this must be thrown out and search out Jesus only.
Truly knowing Jesus is a deep desire to know Him, His ways, His teachings, His truths. Knowing Him and not just about Him. If someone asks me the questions you have posted or even a well intentiond weekly church goer I point them to Jesus only not any "church" or denomination. Not saying there is not good teachers out there. I say if truth is what you are after then a diligent heart you must have. To truly want to know you have to be willing to lay down any pre conceived ideas or thoughts or any comparing of Jesus to what you might know about a "church" or other so called "christians"
Begin to ask God if He is real then please reveal this to your innermost being and be prepared to do this more than once and as long as need be. Begin to read the words in red in a Bible. A truly humble heart that truly wants to know will not be disappointed. So many people do this for a couple of weeks then say well nothing happened so God must not be real..... if you are not truly humble and ready to TRULY know then you will not know.
If all your wanting to know about is religion then you can GOOGLE away and find out just about anything. But truly knowing Jesus is a radical relationship with your Creator and a life changing moment in one's life.
There have been some other great posts!
Edited by TyE 2013-12-17 11:49 AM
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 Chasin my Dream
Posts: 13651
Location: Alberta | Della&bubba - 2013-12-17 9:31 AM That's one of the things we discussed. If religion is completely taken out of the world and atheism strengthened, would their still be morals? I think there would be because I'm an atheist and I believe in the golden rule of do unto others that you would do unto you. But then I'd start to think and I feel on the other hand there are people who really need that looming idea of a greater punishment to stay fairly well on the straight and narrow (not implying you do but the general population as a whole). I don't know. This topic interests me a lot. Religion fascinates me, which is weird because I don't believe in it haha.
Even if said "religion" as in believing in a God wasn't present, the belief in a higher power wouldn't cease to exist IMO. I don't think the idea of being an atheist would be the only option there is......ultimately even as an atheist you do believe in something...
Not all religions believe in a said " God" when you look at the Native Americans they believe in many spirits that guided certain aspects oh their lives...
...just discussing....
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 Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | I believe because my mother is a Christian woman and took me to church every week. She has undeniable faith so I learned from attending church and being raised in a Christian home. As have my children. I wish I had something really earth shattering to say but that explains me. | |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Della&bubba - 2013-12-17 8:31 AM That's one of the things we discussed. If religion is completely taken out of the world and atheism strengthened, would their still be morals? I think there would be because I'm an atheist and I believe in the golden rule of do unto others that you would do unto you. But then I'd start to think and I feel on the other hand there are people who really need that looming idea of a greater punishment to stay fairly well on the straight and narrow (not implying you do but the general population as a whole). I don't know. This topic interests me a lot. Religion fascinates me, which is weird because I don't believe in it haha.
I'm kind of the same way.....I'm agnostic. I believe there is a God who plans out fate and has a reason for what happens....but I have yet to be SAVED or have a relationship.....I just don't know how. I feel like a fraud whenever I think about getting serious. I DO believe in the idea of a positive attitude, which God/religion seems to bring to people. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | hammer_time - 2013-12-17 1:13 PM Della&bubba - 2013-12-17 8:31 AM That's one of the things we discussed. If religion is completely taken out of the world and atheism strengthened, would their still be morals? I think there would be because I'm an atheist and I believe in the golden rule of do unto others that you would do unto you. But then I'd start to think and I feel on the other hand there are people who really need that looming idea of a greater punishment to stay fairly well on the straight and narrow (not implying you do but the general population as a whole). I don't know. This topic interests me a lot. Religion fascinates me, which is weird because I don't believe in it haha. I'm kind of the same way.....I'm agnostic. I believe there is a God who plans out fate and has a reason for what happens....but I have yet to be SAVED or have a relationship.....I just don't know how. I feel like a fraud whenever I think about getting serious. I DO believe in the idea of a positive attitude, which God/religion seems to bring to people.
Technically agnostic means you are not sure if there is a god or not. That is basically how I feel... that I do not know if there is a "higher power" or not. I am open to all possibilities, and I like learning about the various religions of the world. I find the subject pretty interesting.
BTW, not all scientists are athiests or agnostics. In fact, the founder of the Human Genome Project is some sort of Christian religion.
Science is an extremely interesting subject. So is religion. Our understanding of both subjects is limited by our intelligence as a species. | |
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