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 Veteran
Posts: 193
 
Location: USA | Ok, so when I'm making a run she wants to cut me off short going into the second barrel. She'll start to get ready WAYYY before the barrel and then practically kills it! Also, sometimes when I'm going into the second she'll do this tight canter and end up hitting it on the backside! Even when I give her plenty of room. And I know not to put my hand over her neck or my hand up high. I try to keep my shoulders up when I turn and I use my legs and seat a lot but nothing seems to be working. At home I'll let her try and make the mistake but she won't even attempt to shoulder in. Even when I'm doing practice runs at home! Can someone help me or does anyone know of any exercises I can do with her to stop her shouldering? |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1035
Location: TN | I'm by no means an expert, but here's my thoughts. When you're doing slow work on the pattern, try taking her straight towards the wall on the second barrel (not letting her turn) then you can stop, let her rest for a second, and then circle the barrel a few times in perfect position then go to the third. This can help with her anticipating the turn. And when you are loping or running make sure you use your inside leg to keep her shoulder up and keep driving her into the turn. My horse started doing the same thing on the second barrel at the last race and yesterday when I was practicing at home. These two little things seemed to help. |
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Veteran
Posts: 193
Location: USA | Anything, from anybody right now would help, and thank you but would I put pressure up near the cinch to keep her shoulder up? |
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Veteran
Posts: 193
Location: USA | Also, I have another question do longer shanks on bits make them lift their shoulder more? Just curious... |
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
  
Location: Washington | Any trainers in your area? Sometimes some hands on is best. Sounds like your horse doesn't understand your cues. If a horse is not in hand doesn't matter what you slap on their face, the animal needs to understand your body language and it needs to be taught that. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I would say you are cueing your horse to turn. Even if you are thinking your not you may have changed your position. It helps if you can post a video. I had one horse that I had to keep my hips square till he was past the barrel, he also only took a 2 foot pocket or he would turn over the barrel. I never touched my reins and I kept my inside leg on him. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| RodeoRider97 - 2013-12-29 8:36 PM
Also, I have another question do longer shanks on bits make them lift their shoulder more? Just curious...
The bit will not help if you lift the shoulder up higher then the shoulder is going to drop more when you have released. Don't Ride the mouth, ride your horse |
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 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | cheryl makofka - 2013-12-29 9:08 PM I would say you are cueing your horse to turn. Even if you are thinking your not you may have changed your position. It helps if you can post a video. I had one horse that I had to keep my hips square till he was past the barrel, he also only took a 2 foot pocket or he would turn over the barrel. I never touched my reins and I kept my inside leg on him.
This was my thought also. You must be cueing the horse somehow. I don't think a horse will "kill" a barrel because they want to, it hurts them too. |
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 The Vaccinator
Posts: 3810
Location: Slipping down the slope of old age. Boo hoo. | cheryl makofka - 2013-12-29 9:10 PM
RodeoRider97 - 2013-12-29 8:36 PM
Also, I have another question do longer shanks on bits make them lift their shoulder more? Just curious...
The bit will not help if you lift the shoulder up higher then the shoulder is going to drop more when you have released. Don't Ride the mouth, ride your horse
Ditto.... get out of the mouth.... and go back to the basics. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | fatchance - 2013-12-29 8:45 PM Any trainers in your area? Sometimes some hands on is best. Sounds like your horse doesn't understand your cues. If a horse is not in hand doesn't matter what you slap on their face, the animal needs to understand your body language and it needs to be taught that.
Best answer! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 713
Location: PA | You might be sitting/cueing too soon. Be sure you ride ride ride clear up to your rate point or pocket. I would guess that you are anticipating her anticipating so pay attention that you keep your form until you need to prep for your turn.
Edited by Zepridesitright 2013-12-29 11:02 PM
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 Saint Stacey
| Are you holding her off with the outside rein? If so, you can't hold off with an outside rein. All that does is reverse arch them and drive that shoulder even harder into the barrel.
Posting a viedo would be your best option so people can actually see what you are doing. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: Great NW | Take videos of you practicing (good practice) - THEN take them of competition. put them on COACHES EYE (CHEAP or even free) to study them SIDE BY SIDE in SLOW motion. 90% Horses do not just Kill barrels. they are usually recieving some signal - or they have mental block in competiion- was she ever hurt during a competition? I would find a good coach - let them watch the videos too. Pictures are worth a million words if you can let yourself see. |
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | SKM - 2013-12-30 4:40 PM Are you holding her off with the outside rein? If so, you can't hold off with an outside rein. All that does is reverse arch them and drive that shoulder even harder into the barrel.
Posting a viedo would be your best option so people can actually see what you are doing.
Exactly. My friend's horse keeps shouldering in, my buddy keeps trying to hold her off with the outside rein which makes it worse so now she's got her horse basically trained even more to shoulder in on every barrel. No matter how many videos and pictures she see's she doesn't think she's doing it. LOL |
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 Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4553
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | At home she won't attempt to hit a barrel" This tells me your the cause. Re-evaluate on your position in competition. I wouldn't practice the barrels, I would take her out on the trails and the 2 of you work on moving off your leg and moving the hip in and out by going around several obstacles ie trees boulders shrubs and such. If you have a video replay often and study your hand a leg placement and distance. If she is cheating you notice where you can help her the most to succeed. Good luck. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Can you post a video. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: South MS | If you have a video post it - sounds to me that she is anticipating the turn - I had a mare doing this and a friend of mine is a very good trainer and fixes alot of problem horses. He told me to slam her A** in the ground everytime I felt her leaning on me when I was approaching the barrel and back her up - then turn around and circle the barrel prior and come back to the problem barrel - every time she leans I had to slam her - took about 8 times and then she realized what was happening and she quit
I also had to start carrying a dressage whip and tap her 1-2 times approaching the barrel turn to keep her up and driving as I tend to sit a little early
I do cone work at the house vs barrel work to help take their minds off of barrels - I do alot of shoulder lifting and counter arching at home so if I need to lift and move them at the barrels they are responsive enough for me to get them over at fast speeds |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
| I think riding with 2 hands up to the barrel will help. Have you tried to lope a practice run at a barrel race? Being able to slow down in the environment that you are hitting barrels might help you figure it out. (Human Error or Horse Error). One exercise I like to do is roll back at the barrel. This helps keep the horse squared up at the barrel without antipcating the turn and if you feel the horse shifting its weight as you approach the pocket then you can correct it with a roll back. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 224
Location: Southern OK aka God's Country | I am not a trainer or any type of expert, but I had this problem and a lot of the suggestions on here really helped me (I posted a video though and that seemed to help people really see what I was doing). I got to where I was regularly hitting the second barrel, and I was anticipating hitting it, so I would brace my shoulder and body, which in turn cued my horse to throw his shoulder and body in before the turn, and we were perpetuating a very bad cycle. What helped me is that we went back to slow working the pattern, and coming into the 2nd I would overexaggerate the process of picking up his shoulder, tipping his nose and driving him way wide around the 2nd barrel with my inside leg. I would do this all with 2 hands deep into the turn. However, as everyone knows, making a run in competition is a whole different animal. So after the slow work, during a run, I would concentrate solely (I do good to remember one thing during a run) on driving him past the barrel by looking at the fence. We overcorrected a couple of runs but after that he was good, and has made pretty nice runs since (not perfect, but decent).
As far as shanks, the longer the shank, the more leverage you have. Leverage can give you lift in the shoulder, but if the horse isn't broke enough to respond to that cue or is getting different cues from you, it doesn't matter what you put on them. I went to the Martha Josey million dollar bit, and that was our ticket. He has done really well since we went to that bit, and we went through a ton of them before I found it. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1304
| I'm not an expert either!! But like everyone else is sayin, get a video together and maybe post it on here. Or I don't know how you feel about Fallon Taylor but she offers virtual lessons! You can send her a video and probably a description of your concerns (I think it's $25) and then she'll send you a response. It'd be nice to learn from a pro! I hope you get it figured out  |
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