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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
   
Location: North Dakota | Ok, so many of you have heard of my ongoing lameness issues with my mare (and now our other horse is lame as well). And you've all been very helpful and encouraging. WELL. I was on another forum and someone posted a link to this: http://www.calmhealthyhorses.com/success/millie.html . So I read that, watched the videos, and looked at the "Healthy Horse Checklist" they have a link to on the bottom of the page. Both our horses have different symptoms BUT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF BOTH OF THEIR SYMPTOMS ARE ON THAT LIST. WHAT. OVER A GRAND OF VET BILLS LATER AND PERHAPS ALL THEY NEEDED WAS AN ADJUSTMENT IN THEIR DIET!?!?!?!? If that's for real, then I'm both elated and disgruntled, because I've spent a crap ton of time and money trying to get these guys sound, but if that's all that needs fixing, that's easy! I'm going to talk to my vet, but I just wanted to see if you good people have heard of this. |
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I Need a Xanax!
Posts: 2774
| I've got a 10 year old broke to death nice mare that started this behavior this summer...after tons of chiro, ulcer meds, etc I now believe she has PSSM. Read Annamarie's HUGE post on here about it then read all the symptoms and see if it lines up with your horses.
Edited to add.....I've had this mare since she was 2 and she has always been extremely easy going and laid back and happy but at the end of this summer she turned into an evil, hateful, grouchy, witch that seemed tight and sore all over. I was riding her in the same saddle I've ridden in for 5 years so I knew that wasn't the problem so with a lot of observation on her diet and exercise I'm convinced its PSSM.
Edited by Used2B 2014-01-01 1:16 PM
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | They are selling products.. |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | Bibliafarm - 2014-01-01 1:12 PM They are selling products..
Well that's what I was afraid of. That's why I posted it here in disbelief, to see if you guys had heard of this as well or if they're just peddling their stuff. |
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 Chasin my Dream
Posts: 13651
Location: Alberta | Is there no blood work vets can do to test for deficienies etc...have your feed tested too....
I agree with Bibliafarm......
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | dont take this wrong....
With the issues you had and are having for the past year.. it doesnt seem that their product could cure them..now the pssm.. id check for if you havent but i doubt both horses would have it and I also doubt both are lame for same reason.. i think you need to step back and have a differant vet and a diffferant farrier and a diferant trainer tend to horses to see whats up.. its a big blur all the storys on here and really not sure what to think it is. good luck. |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | Bibliafarm - 2014-01-01 1:29 PM dont take this wrong....
With the issues you had and are having for the past year.. it doesnt seem that their product could cure them..now the pssm.. id check for if you havent but i doubt both horses would have it and I also doubt both are lame for same reason.. i think you need to step back and have a differant vet and a diffferant farrier and a diferant trainer tend to horses to see whats up.. its a big blur all the storys on here and really not sure what to think it is. good luck.
No, I understand, I'm not under the impression their product will work miracles, but the idea that a deficiency could be causing their issues is a new angle I hadn't considered, and I'm trying to find out all the other possibilities because they've been blocked, x-rayed, injected, put on pen rest, buted, done by a great farrier, 2 chiro's/massage therapists, and nothing has helped and both vets have been unable to find anything conclusive in either horse. They do not display the same symptoms at all, but that site listed all of each of their symptoms. I did look at that PSSM thread, which did match some of their symptoms, but what are the odds of them both having it? Also, wouldn't it have shown up sooner? They're turning 7 and 13 this year. I don't know about Shimmer's past, but we're pretty close with Buster's old owners and they've had him FOREVER. I can't imagine them trying to rip us off... |
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 Cotton Balls are the Devil
Posts: 1271
Location: My own little world! | cavyrunsbarrels - 2014-01-02 11:40 AM
Bibliafarm - 2014-01-01 1:29 PM dont take this wrong....
With the issues you had and are having for the past year.. it doesnt seem that their product could cure them..now the pssm.. id check for if you havent but i doubt both horses would have it and I also doubt both are lame for same reason.. i think you need to step back and have a differant vet and a diffferant farrier and a diferant trainer tend to horses to see whats up.. its a big blur all the storys on here and really not sure what to think it is. good luck.
No, I understand, I'm not under the impression their product will work miracles, but the idea that a deficiency could be causing their issues is a new angle I hadn't considered, and I'm trying to find out all the other possibilities because they've been blocked, x-rayed, injected, put on pen rest, buted, done by a great farrier, 2 chiro's/massage therapists, and nothing has helped and both vets have been unable to find anything conclusive in either horse. They do not display the same symptoms at all, but that site listed all of each of their symptoms. I did look at that PSSM thread, which did match some of their symptoms, but what are the odds of them both having it? Also, wouldn't it have shown up sooner? They're turning 7 and 13 this year. I don't know about Shimmer's past, but we're pretty close with Buster's old owners and they've had him FOREVER. I can't imagine them trying to rip us off...
I haven't followed your posts about your horse's lameness issues. BUT as far as having a 13 year old horse having PSSM, it could be. It could be that the PSSM was not known about in the past by the prior owners but was not as noticable due to his diet and exercise program at that time. Idk but just throwing that out there. For instance if he had been out on a large pasture and now he is stalled with a smaller turn out. 
I would look into PSSM for both horses, if you haven't already.
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Do you have videos of your horses' lameness?
I always thought my horse moved funny....until I saw a video of a show-horse lope. Exact same thing. The weird hitch, the laziness....it all came together. Just a thought. |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | Cashbaby - 2014-01-01 2:52 PM cavyrunsbarrels - 2014-01-02 11:40 AM Bibliafarm - 2014-01-01 1:29 PM dont take this wrong....
With the issues you had and are having for the past year.. it doesnt seem that their product could cure them..now the pssm.. id check for if you havent but i doubt both horses would have it and I also doubt both are lame for same reason.. i think you need to step back and have a differant vet and a diffferant farrier and a diferant trainer tend to horses to see whats up.. its a big blur all the storys on here and really not sure what to think it is. good luck. No, I understand, I'm not under the impression their product will work miracles, but the idea that a deficiency could be causing their issues is a new angle I hadn't considered, and I'm trying to find out all the other possibilities because they've been blocked, x-rayed, injected, put on pen rest, buted, done by a great farrier, 2 chiro's/massage therapists, and nothing has helped and both vets have been unable to find anything conclusive in either horse. They do not display the same symptoms at all, but that site listed all of each of their symptoms. I did look at that PSSM thread, which did match some of their symptoms, but what are the odds of them both having it? Also, wouldn't it have shown up sooner? They're turning 7 and 13 this year. I don't know about Shimmer's past, but we're pretty close with Buster's old owners and they've had him FOREVER. I can't imagine them trying to rip us off... I haven't followed your posts about your horse's lameness issues. BUT as far as having a 13 year old horse having PSSM, it could be. It could be that the PSSM was not known about in the past by the prior owners but was not as noticable due to his diet and exercise program at that time. Idk but just throwing that out there. For instance if he had been out on a large pasture and now he is stalled with a smaller turn out. I would look into PSSM for both horses, if you haven't already.
Ok, I still would be surprised if he has it and they never noticed it in their several years of owning and competing on him. Most of what I'm reading about PSSM doesn't sound anything like their symptoms, but a couple things line up. Who knows. |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | hammer_time - 2014-01-01 2:56 PM Do you have videos of your horses' lameness?
I always thought my horse moved funny....until I saw a video of a show-horse lope. Exact same thing. The weird hitch, the laziness....it all came together. Just a thought.
I do have a couple of videos, but they aren't the best. WARNING: MY SISTER BABBLES VERY LOUDLY IN THESE. I ADVISE YOU TO MUTE THEM.
Ok, so here's the 12yr old gelding. This is when we first started noticing he was ever so slightly off in his left front. Really, it's not that noticable here. He's not dead lame or anything, but it is a bit worse than it appears in this clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XW7mTCS8Qo
And here's my girl. This was actually a good day for her. When she trots fast, the hitch isn't noticable, but when she slows down a bit it becomes very pronounced (left hind). She also has a hard time with picking up and maintaining the correct lead at times, as you'll see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RbQfI8RkJ0 |
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Cotton Balls are the Devil
Posts: 1271
Location: My own little world! | After seeing the video of the gelding, I would agree that PSSM is probably not the cause of his issues.
Might check it out further for the mare, did you pull blood work on her yet? Maybe the vet has ruled it out with her some of her levels? Like I said before, I hadn't followed any of your prior lameness posts, so I really have no idea what you may have done or ruled out. Sorry if I'm asking something you have already done. |
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 Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | Before jumping on the bandwagon get your horse tested. It was $95 for a 5 panel through Animal Genetics. I mailed it on a Saturday and had results emailed to me on Wednesday. I had my filly tested as she seemed to fit but she is n/n accross the board. |
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 "Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | I have not read all of your posts, but just want to add that checking for type one PSSM is cheap and easy! $35 via hair sample through Animal Genetics. Now, having said that, two of mine have Type 2 PSSM which can only be diagnosed via muscle biopsy. Both of mine have funny hitches in the rear. After spending thousands on my mare, it's pretty aggravating that not one vet mentioned PSSM. Just because your horse has PSSM does not mean that someone screwed you over. Most people don't even know what it is, much less willing to spend the money to test/biopsy. And every owner feeds/manages their horses differently which can completely change the symptoms shown. I hope you figure out their issues. It's frustrating for sure! |
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | I don't want to steal the thread, but am thinking about the five panel test (I'm checking on PSSM type one with her) plus the DNA test for my mare through AQHA. Is it worth the $105? Has anyone done that? I know AQHA is slow with their paperwork, but don't know how they are with testing. I've never used Animal Genetics before either, but it seems like you all recommend them.
I can just some how see me out plucking my horse's mane with a tweezers trying to make sure I get the root of her mane, LOL. |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | Cavy,
After watching the video of your gelding, I'm interested. What kinds of diagnostics/test have been done on him? Has he had a navicular/heel pain diagnosis? |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | mtcanchazer - 2014-01-01 3:52 PM
I don't want to steal the thread, but am thinking about the five panel test (I'm checking on PSSM type one with her) plus the DNA test for my mare through AQHA. Is it worth the $105? Has anyone done that? I know AQHA is slow with their paperwork, but don't know how they are with testing. I've never used Animal Genetics before either, but it seems like you all recommend them. Â
I can just some how see me out plucking my horse's mane with a tweezers trying to make sure I get the root of her mane, LOL.
If I had a possible breeding animal then, the five panel is definitely worth it. With going through AQHA you won't ever have to worry about retesting due to them currently NOT accepting AG test results. I'm hoping that changes in the future, as AG is way faster! |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | Cashbaby - 2014-01-01 3:20 PM
After seeing the video of the gelding, I would agree that PSSM is probably not the cause of his issues.
Might check it out further for the mare, did you pull blood work on her yet? Maybe the vet has ruled it out with her some of her levels? Like I said before, I hadn't followed any of your prior lameness posts, so I really have no idea what you may have done or ruled out. Sorry if I'm asking something you have already done.
I haven't had any bloodwork done yet. I've had her x-rayed (2 vets analyzed those), blocked up to above her stifle, chiro'd/massaged twice, dentist, and she's been lame since I brought her home last June, so she's been off all that time (with the exception of the couple attempts to ride her before I knew she was lame and when she appeared better, but wasn't). The gelding has been lame since about the beginning of Nov. We blocked him out and it appears to be something in the lower half of the leg. Had x-rays, regular farrier work, chrio, oh and they both got injections for mild arthritis. |
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Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | Cavy, I watched both the videos, I don't have much to say about the gelding, he doesn't look awful, but I can see what you are talking about. With my old mare, she had arthritis in her knee, but she was ten years older than your gelding.
On your mare, did your try the fetlock when you were doing x-rays and tests? To me it looks lower on her leg (like fetlock area), but am no lameness expert by any means. |
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Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | annemarea - 2014-01-01 3:01 PM mtcanchazer - 2014-01-01 3:52 PM I don't want to steal the thread, but am thinking about the five panel test (I'm checking on PSSM type one with her) plus the DNA test for my mare through AQHA. Is it worth the $105? Has anyone done that? I know AQHA is slow with their paperwork, but don't know how they are with testing. I've never used Animal Genetics before either, but it seems like you all recommend them.
I can just some how see me out plucking my horse's mane with a tweezers trying to make sure I get the root of her mane, LOL. If I had a possible breeding animal then, the five panel is definitely worth it. With going through AQHA you won't ever have to worry about retesting due to them currently NOT accepting AG test results. I'm hoping that changes in the future, as AG is way faster!
Thanks very much! She is a possible broodmare, as I have a feeling barrel racing isn't her calling. But with the 5 panel test, it may be something I can work with. |
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