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  The Color Specialist
Posts: 7530
   
Location: Washington. (The DRY side.) | Would any of you buy or sell a horse PENDING the reuslts of a 5 panel test? What I mean is I have seen ads for horses for sale that have NOT been 5 panel tested yet. The seller says they will do the 5 panel WITH a deposit. If the horse isn't N/N across the board, they will refund the deposit. This sounds all well and fine, HOWEVER this isn't a "couple of days" type process. I sent a check for a 5 panel kit to AQHA November 13th. (For one of my horses, this has nothing to so with the scenario I am talking aobut.) Finally got the kit back on Dec 11th. Pulled the mane hairs that day and mailed it to U.C. Davis on Dec 12th. It is now Jan 5th and I STILL know NOTHING more than I did in the first place. Granted, there have been 3 "holidays" since I started this process but....
SO if you were the buyer or seller doing this, you could have a 2+ MONTH wait to get the results. I just don't know if I could "go there" as a buyer. Probably not as a LOT can happen during the "waiting period". I KNOW I wouldn't as a seller. (I would just test the horse BEFORE I offered it for sale.) |
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 Ms. Manners
Posts: 1820
 
Location: Oklahoma | I didn't realize it was that long a wait for the test. Quite a few of the tests I do on Arabs we are able to pay for the test and print out the kit/forms at the same time. This really cuts down on processing time.
I don't see the benefit as a buyer or seller to take a deposit and play the waiting game, even for a month, while tests are processed. It is a risk at both ends, keeping everyone in limbo. I might be able to see it benefitting a buyer who is first in line for an in-demand prospect or sire, but there is still the question of whether the buyer will back out during the waiting period, the seller receives a cash off without the test result stipulation, or the horse gets ill, injured or dies.
As with any sale, though, if both buyer and seller are happy with the arrangment and have a strong contract in place then go for it. |
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The Color Specialist
Posts: 7530
Location: Washington. (The DRY side.) | You might be able to get it completed sooner using a different Lab. However, it will NOT "count" as far as the horses AQHA "info"/record. Those MUST be done by U.C Davis. So if a buyer accepted the results of a different Lab, Then later wanted to breed the horse, (Unless it was a gelding obviously.) they would have to pay for the tests to be done AGAIN. |
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Ms. Manners
Posts: 1820
Location: Oklahoma | Sounds quite frustrating for a seller and buyer . . . at least until the results come in. |
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The Color Specialist
Posts: 7530
Location: Washington. (The DRY side.) | That was my thought too. Course it could benefit the buyer, as the seller is still having to feed and care for the buyers horse! LOL In certain situarions it probably wouldn't matter if it took a few months. For instance I once bought a broodmare that had a foal on her side, The seller was keeping the colt. So I paid a deposit, then picked the mare up after the colt was weaned. (It was about 4 or 5 months total time as the baby was under 30 days old when I bought the mare.) The seller paid for all feed and care for the mare since she was raising THEIR baby. Then I paid the balance in cash when I picked up the mare. |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | It depends on their bloodlines, whether either parent had been tested and what their results were. Assuming this is a riding prospect and that neither parent had been 5 panel tested as of yet, as a buyer, I would pay the extra $ for the PSSM test with the other lab (faster results), as that is the one that would concern me the most. I'm a bit impatient, so I'm not willing to wait 6-8 weeks for AQHA/UCD testing on a prospect. |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I'm just going to start doing any future mare/stallion and if either are positive, they are getting sold. That way if anyone is interested in something I have for sale it will be of course negative in the 5 panel. What confuses me though is the type 2 for PSSM. That requires a muscle biopsy and I don't think I have a vet near by that would do this/or would even be in "the know" about PSSM type 2 sooooo my deal is that the 5 panel is a JOKE until the type 2 is included. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | I agree with the above post. The five panel doesn't test for PSSM2. We did the Five panel and horse came back negative. She tied up again so went ahead with the biopsy and she's PSSM2 postive. Lots of money spent and we knew she wasn't HYPP or HERDA by her breeding but thought PSSM.
Hopefully they find a way to test for PSSM2 without a biopsy. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | RunNitroRun - 2014-01-05 1:56 PM
I agree with the above post. The five panel doesn't test for PSSM2. We did the Five panel and horse came back negative. She tied up again so went ahead with the biopsy and she's PSSM2 postive. Lots of money spent and we knew she wasn't HYPP or HERDA by her breeding but thought PSSM.
Hopefully they find a way to test for PSSM2 without a biopsy.
That is exactly my issue with the required 5 panel. I don't raise horses that will ever have HYPP or Herda. I have never had one that had PSSM or any other genetic trait that I know of. We ride hard in the summer but give them a lot of time off in the winter. If they were to tie up, I imagine we would have come across it. I did years ago have a ranch bred broodmare that was cinchy at first and went to Two Eyed Jack. Knowing what I do now, I would suspect she "could" have had PSSM 1 or 2. he would have been spayed if we had known. Her babies were awful so we sold her. I think they have a lot of studying to do before they get this genetic BS all under control. But requiring a person to test stallions/mares and then NOT doing a dang thing if they find positive is stupid. I, as a breeder, would be more than happy to geld/spay if a positive was found. It is the only way to better the breed and eliminate this crap in our bloodlines. |
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | Honestly, I had never thought of doing a 5 panel test before purchasing or selling a horse. I had a horse that was Impressive bred, and I knew nothing about HYPP until after I owned her (she was N/N, however, she had the test done before we owned her).
As far as AQHA, I was going to order a 5 panel and DNA test for my current mare, but I'm thinking I may skip it for now if it takes 2+ months to get results. Holy cow...a big organization and they can't be quicker about things than that??? |
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The Color Specialist
Posts: 7530
Location: Washington. (The DRY side.) | mtcanchazer - 2014-01-05 1:09 PM Honestly, I had never thought of doing a 5 panel test before purchasing or selling a horse. I had a horse that was Impressive bred, and I knew nothing about HYPP until after I owned her (she was N/N, however, she had the test done before we owned her).
As far as AQHA, I was going to order a 5 panel and DNA test for my current mare, but I'm thinking I may skip it for now if it takes 2+ months to get results. Holy cow...a big organization and they can't be quicker about things than that???
Personally, If I were you, (Actually in a way, I AM you., LOL. I have a mare that needed DNA done for breeding purposes, I just went ahead and did it all at once so it would be DONE. Besides, if they DO start requiring mares to be done, chances are it will take LONGER as there will be that mane more horses to be tested.) I would "just do it all" if you have the money for it. It is also cheaper to do it all at once rather than spliting it up. I wouldn't be surprised if they require mares to be done sooner than later. And, you never know they COULD raise the price like they do for everything else. |
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Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | RacingQH - 2014-01-05 2:41 PM mtcanchazer - 2014-01-05 1:09 PM Honestly, I had never thought of doing a 5 panel test before purchasing or selling a horse. I had a horse that was Impressive bred, and I knew nothing about HYPP until after I owned her (she was N/N, however, she had the test done before we owned her).
As far as AQHA, I was going to order a 5 panel and DNA test for my current mare, but I'm thinking I may skip it for now if it takes 2+ months to get results. Holy cow...a big organization and they can't be quicker about things than that??? Personally, If I were you, (Actually in a way, I AM you., LOL. I have a mare that needed DNA done for breeding purposes, I just went ahead and did it all at once so it would be DONE. Besides, if they DO start requiring mares to be done, chances are it will take LONGER as there will be that mane more horses to be tested.) I would "just do it all" if you have the money for it. It is also cheaper to do it all at once rather than spliting it up. I wouldn't be surprised if they require mares to be done sooner than later. And, you never know they COULD raise the price like they do for everything else.
PUT MORE PEOPLE TO WORK, AQHA!
ETA: I don't think you would want to be me, LOL.
Edited by mtcanchazer 2014-01-05 4:07 PM
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-05 1:07 PM RunNitroRun - 2014-01-05 1:56 PM I agree with the above post. The five panel doesn't test for PSSM2. We did the Five panel and horse came back negative. She tied up again so went ahead with the biopsy and she's PSSM2 postive. Lots of money spent and we knew she wasn't HYPP or HERDA by her breeding but thought PSSM. Hopefully they find a way to test for PSSM2 without a biopsy. That is exactly my issue with the required 5 panel. I don't raise horses that will ever have HYPP or Herda. I have never had one that had PSSM or any other genetic trait that I know of. We ride hard in the summer but give them a lot of time off in the winter. If they were to tie up, I imagine we would have come across it. I did years ago have a ranch bred broodmare that was cinchy at first and went to Two Eyed Jack. Knowing what I do now, I would suspect she "could" have had PSSM 1 or 2. he would have been spayed if we had known. Her babies were awful so we sold her. I think they have a lot of studying to do before they get this genetic BS all under control. But requiring a person to test stallions/mares and then NOT doing a dang thing if they find positive is stupid. I, as a breeder, would be more than happy to geld/spay if a positive was found. It is the only way to better the breed and eliminate this crap in our bloodlines.
Also, I've read where there is embryo testing available for those that have negative/positive horses AND have the financial means to do embryo transfer. They could test the embryos and only implant those that test negative, and their get from the stock would then be clean. I realize this is a very expensive proposition, but if you are already spending the $ for the embryo transfer program, what's a few $ more for testing? Just thinking out loud.
Several univerisities are trying to find the gene(s) responsible for PSSM 2, reasearch takes time and a LOT of $$. They will find it eventually, Just hoping they find it in the next few years.
Edited by Anniemae 2014-01-05 4:13 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 1430
Location: Montana | So when I called the AQHA before Christmas to order a test kit to be sent to the owner of a stud I'm looking at buying and I asked how long it would take and I was given the impression it would be around three weeks . . . I was lied to? Basically?
Asking the seller to wait a couple weeks is one thing. Am I really looking at this taking 2 months before we know? That's insane! I can't ask her to wait that long. . . that's not fair to her.
Other than finding that little girl at AQHA's supervisor Monday morning, does anyone have suggestions on what I can do?
I think I'll go outside into the -50+ wind chill and cheer myself up now . . . .
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | I was told 3-4 days to get it out. 3-5 days to receive it in the mail. 4 weeks to get the results. Isn't that ridiculous when Animal Genetics can get it done from beginning to end in less than a week? (I've heard) |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | AQHA charges $85. Animal Genetics is $95.  |
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The Color Specialist
Posts: 7530
Location: Washington. (The DRY side.) | Anniemae - 2014-01-05 2:11 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-05 1:07 PM RunNitroRun - 2014-01-05 1:56 PM I agree with the above post. The five panel doesn't test for PSSM2. We did the Five panel and horse came back negative. She tied up again so went ahead with the biopsy and she's PSSM2 postive. Lots of money spent and we knew she wasn't HYPP or HERDA by her breeding but thought PSSM. Hopefully they find a way to test for PSSM2 without a biopsy. That is exactly my issue with the required 5 panel. I don't raise horses that will ever have HYPP or Herda. I have never had one that had PSSM or any other genetic trait that I know of. We ride hard in the summer but give them a lot of time off in the winter. If they were to tie up, I imagine we would have come across it. I did years ago have a ranch bred broodmare that was cinchy at first and went to Two Eyed Jack. Knowing what I do now, I would suspect she "could" have had PSSM 1 or 2. he would have been spayed if we had known. Her babies were awful so we sold her. I think they have a lot of studying to do before they get this genetic BS all under control. But requiring a person to test stallions/mares and then NOT doing a dang thing if they find positive is stupid. I, as a breeder, would be more than happy to geld/spay if a positive was found. It is the only way to better the breed and eliminate this crap in our bloodlines.
Also, I've read where there is embryo testing available for those that have negative/positive horses AND have the financial means to do embryo transfer. They could test the embryos and only implant those that test negative, and their get from the stock would then be clean. I realize this is a very expensive proposition, but if you are already spending the $ for the embryo transfer program, what's a few $ more for testing? Just thinking out loud.
Several univerisities are trying to find the gene(s) responsible for PSSM 2, reasearch takes time and a LOT of $$. They will find it eventually, Just hoping they find it in the next few years.
I would say no. The only thing that will eradicate these diseases is if carriers aren't bred. (And we all know that there are plenty of people out there that WILL breed them anyway as long as they can register the foals.) And, IMO that is never gong to happen. It hasn't happened with HYPP! |
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The Color Specialist
Posts: 7530
Location: Washington. (The DRY side.) | ausranch - 2014-01-05 2:56 PM So when I called the AQHA before Christmas to order a test kit to be sent to the owner of a stud I'm looking at buying and I asked how long it would take and I was given the impression it would be around three weeks . . . I was lied to? Basically? Asking the seller to wait a couple weeks is one thing. Am I really looking at this taking 2 months before we know? That's insane! I can't ask her to wait that long. . . that's not fair to her. Other than finding that little girl at AQHA's supervisor Monday morning, does anyone have suggestions on what I can do? I think I'll go outside into the -50+ wind chill and cheer myself up now . . . .
All I know is what is going on with ME. I never thought it would take 4 WEEKS just to get the kit from AQHA. I called them after 3 weeks and got the old "song and dance" about them being "behind". Funny though how they aren't too busy to cash the CHECK as soon as they get it! LOL |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Anniemae - 2014-01-05 3:11 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-01-05 1:07 PM RunNitroRun - 2014-01-05 1:56 PM I agree with the above post. The five panel doesn't test for PSSM2. We did the Five panel and horse came back negative. She tied up again so went ahead with the biopsy and she's PSSM2 postive. Lots of money spent and we knew she wasn't HYPP or HERDA by her breeding but thought PSSM. Hopefully they find a way to test for PSSM2 without a biopsy. That is exactly my issue with the required 5 panel. I don't raise horses that will ever have HYPP or Herda. I have never had one that had PSSM or any other genetic trait that I know of. We ride hard in the summer but give them a lot of time off in the winter. If they were to tie up, I imagine we would have come across it. I did years ago have a ranch bred broodmare that was cinchy at first and went to Two Eyed Jack. Knowing what I do now, I would suspect she "could" have had PSSM 1 or 2. he would have been spayed if we had known. Her babies were awful so we sold her. I think they have a lot of studying to do before they get this genetic BS all under control. But requiring a person to test stallions/mares and then NOT doing a dang thing if they find positive is stupid. I, as a breeder, would be more than happy to geld/spay if a positive was found. It is the only way to better the breed and eliminate this crap in our bloodlines.
Also, I've read where there is embryo testing available for those that have negative/positive horses AND have the financial means to do embryo transfer. They could test the embryos and only implant those that test negative, and their get from the stock would then be clean. I realize this is a very expensive proposition, but if you are already spending the $ for the embryo transfer program, what's a few $ more for testing? Just thinking out loud.
Several univerisities are trying to find the gene(s) responsible for PSSM 2, reasearch takes time and a LOT of $$. They will find it eventually, Just hoping they find it in the next few years.
I don't really want AQHA or anyone else dictating what we do with our horses, but I think they should do something similar ot HYPP. A H/H cannot be registered or whatever their rule is. It would make people more aware. But to mandate that breeders of over 25 mares etc have to test their stallion for the 5 panel is stupid unless PSSM 2 is included in that. Why are the other 5 more important that PSSM 2? They aren't, but they are from an easy test, and why are just stallions putting 25+ babies on the ground more important? It just takes 1 baby to have issues and all that goes with it. I say test one and all and find a way to get PSSM 2 covered or they are wasting ours and their time. If they continue to allow positive horses to reproduce, again they are wasting time. Do the test and try and eliminate the bad blood from the gene pool. Make them ineligible for registration. Worked well for HYPP |
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The Color Specialist
Posts: 7530
Location: Washington. (The DRY side.) | OregonBR - 2014-01-05 3:02 PM I was told 3-4 days to get it out. 3-5 days to receive it in the mail. 4 weeks to get the results. Isn't that ridiculous when Animal Genetics can get it done from beginning to end in less than a week? (I've heard)
Funny how it should take 4 WEEKS to get the results when according to U.C Davis, it only takes 2 to 6 days to do the testing!
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