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 Expert
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| A few months ago I posted about my OTT gelding and that he would grab the bit and run up the pen if you added any speed to the first barrel.
I was given some really great advice and I think I covered all of it that I felt would be useful for him. We have worked on accelerating and decelerating circles in dry work, fast and slow roll backs, tracking cattle and of course so much slow work he could walk, trot and slow lope the pattern in his sleep by himself making sure to reinforce rate at the same point every time.
I made a few practice runs on him at home and he did beautiful. He was very responsive and light at home. I thought he was ready for a race and took him to a back yard race last weekend. There were no time onlys but I thought since he was doing so good at home with collection and rate I would see how it went.
He was so calm warming up and waiting for our turn. In fact I had a few people tell me they couldn't believe he was off the track. As soon as he went into the gate I could feel him tense up from his nose to his tail, like he's panicking. (This concerns me a lot since this is only his third race. The first two were back in May and June.)I walked him in a few circles and then loped him in a few circles and waited for him to relax before approaching my first barrel. I didn't ask for speed, a nice slow easy lope to the first in hopes of keeping collection and his mind calm, but he took the bit, flipped his nose in the air and ran up the pen. I was able to get his nose back, attempted to salvage what was left of our turn and then he took off for the 2nd. I finally got control of him at the second and got him to recollect and we did a nice rocking horse lope to the third making sure to make our turn perfect and then rocking horse loped home.
Does anyone else have any advice? I have never had one off the track and I have certainly never had one just grab the bit and run off like that. I was very defeated because I thought since we had corrected the issue at home it would carry over to the show pen. I was extremely disappointed in myself for thinking I had the problem at hand "fixed".
Edited by cyount2009 2014-01-16 10:00 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: Great NW | it will take quite a few time only's. He thinks the object is to go FAST when there is a Crowd. he needs to learn that the object is to turn when there is a crowd. so tons of time onlys with you ALWAYS in charge of the speed. I would continue on this route until he can time only like he works at home. Then Slowly add speed - one barrel at a time. Sounds like he is a VERY competitive horse and he thinks he has it figured out. Patience - he knows how to run that part will happen quickly once he get the game down. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 999
Location: Sunny So Cal | Maybe give him a few THE Calming Cookies before you compete. Just to take the edge of off him. But it sounds like you are doing everything correct. He just has to learn his new job better and realize it isn't to run around a track anymore. |
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| do u have a tie down on him |
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| I have had other horses in the past, and still have a horse that was NEVER ran on the track. They panicked when running barrels. I was told by a track vet that some bloodlines are just that way. Once they start running, they lose their minds. Some folks will use dexamethasone to help calm their minds. I don't use it due to side affects. I don't like using any drugs if I can do it naturally, but I don't train horses for a living. I have the luxury of taking my time. I enjoy the process as much as the outcome. But I think to keep these horses usable in the long run, of good, sound mind and body, sometimes time IS the answer... take time, listen to the horse, use common horse sense, be patient.... If you don't have the patience, get rid of him/her. These kinds of horses are not easy. There is good reason Dash Ta Fame horses are winning all over the place. They handle the pressure. Like the Nike commercial says they "JUST DO IT". That's why they can bring the big $$$'s. Like a good labrador retriever verses a Chesapeake Bay Retriever, some dogs are easy to work with. Labs are traditionally laid back, forgiving, a novice can work w/them (as long s they are not from a crazy blood line-Yeah, they have had THEIR genetic problems too) , whereas Chesapeake's are tough, some say bull-headed and need more of a handler to get the job done. The good side is I do believe a lot of the toughest competitive horses have been the toughest nuts to crack. So if you CAN get them to work for you, you really have something to show. Try to be honest w/yourself, and how much effort YOU want to devote to the cause. That's my opinion for what it's worth. |
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 Super PIckle
Location: Where ever | Have you tried a tie down to keep the nose from flipping up? Also I had one that would do this but radomly an changed him to the left first no problem. Found out years later he had a chip in his hind fet lock on the left. |
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Expert
Posts: 1898
| drpepper - 2014-01-16 12:13 PM
Have you tried a tie down to keep the nose from flipping up? Also I had one that would do this but radomly an changed him to the left first no problem. Found out years later he had a chip in his hind fet lock on the left.
Yes. I was using a german martingale and twisted o-ring and switched to a tie down. He was respecting it at home but when I took him to the race this weekend he just braced against it. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Lots of expos, time onlys, and I would trot them. If you have a friend see if they'll let you work circles behind the time while they run their expos and time onlys.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 550
| Do you have any arenas close that have an open ride time, or can you get a few friends together to ride at someone's house?
That would let you ease into the show environment with fewer people, and you could do whatever work you needed to do. |
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Expert
Posts: 1898
| quikchik - 2014-01-16 1:18 PM
Do you have any arenas close that have an open ride time, or can you get a few friends together to ride at someone's house?
That would let you ease into the show environment with fewer people, and you could do whatever work you needed to do.
I wish! Everyone comes to my house to ride! LOL I may be able to take him to the fair grounds but their ground is bad, bad, bad on the down time and it scares me to even slow lope. |
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| cyount2009 - 2014-01-16 1:30 PM
drpepper - 2014-01-16 12:13 PM
Have you tried a tie down to keep the nose from flipping up? Also I had one that would do this but radomly an changed him to the left first no problem. Found out years later he had a chip in his hind fet lock on the left.
Yes. I was using a german martingale and twisted o-ring and switched to a tie down. He was respecting it at home but when I took him to the race this weekend he just braced against it.
let him roll in there and park his butt then ease around first barrel
I mean let him roll aways then bring him back park him. my sons mare that is the only thing thing that made her rate the first barrel
totally against what you would normally think . I watch terri do it to a marth 6 mons at my place you could see the light dawn
but reward and get off pet put up or turn out |
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  Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | I see you accelerate and decelerate at home but have you actually let him roll at home to see if he will come back to you? Work on one rein stops to help you get more of his mind. I would try a combination bit on him so he can't grab the bit entirely away from you. At your next race ride him down so he is good and tired. Do 3 time onlys on the 3rd one lope to the first barrel Stop get off and uncinch and put him away. Good luck with him. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 503
| I'm in the same boat! My guy is good at home but he gets to a race and loses his mind. Where do you live? Maybe we can haul our crazies together. 
I just figure I'll take my sweet old time and get him used to the sites and going slow. Lots of exhibition runs this summer is on my to do list. Good luck :) |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
| you may want to try a waterford bit. They can't grab all those little balls and run with them. Also something I learned from OTTB's a long time ago was if you DROPPED the reins they stop. They are trained to brace against your hand and that means go faster. When the race is over...the jockey stops pulling and lets the reins looser. Then the horse starts trotting. Seems like its counter to everything we were taught but trust me...I got an OTTB when I was 10 and he ran off with me daily until I learned this. |
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Location: Texas | I am having the exact same problem!!! If you get it figured out please let me know. :-) |
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| While this horse does need more slow work, I understand that when they start getting a bit on the muscle, the brain can shut down. I've got a gelding that is very well trained and is not been as bad as your guy. However, he can get really uptight and I think that makes me uptight and it can escalate. I started giving him Oxygen supplement plus the Oxy Boost gel from a tube before a run. It made a big improvement in keeping his brain working and more focused on his job and not nerves, IMO. While this will not replace training, it might help control the nerves so that the training can proceed. My guy was also off the track and was too nervous in the box to make a rope horse.
Good Luck. |
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Expert
Posts: 1898
| RodeoCowgirl4u - 2014-01-17 12:21 AM
you may want to try a waterford bit. They can't grab all those little balls and run with them. Also something I learned from OTTB's a long time ago was if you DROPPED the reins they stop. They are trained to brace against your hand and that means go faster. When the race is over...the jockey stops pulling and lets the reins looser. Then the horse starts trotting. Seems like its counter to everything we were taught but trust me...I got an OTTB when I was 10 and he ran off with me daily until I learned this.
Thanks! I never thought of that! I'll put that in my book of tricks! |
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Expert
Posts: 1898
| MO gal - 2014-01-17 9:13 AM
While this horse does need more slow work, I understand that when they start getting a bit on the muscle, the brain can shut down. I've got a gelding that is very well trained and is not been as bad as your guy. However, he can get really uptight and I think that makes me uptight and it can escalate. I started giving him Oxygen supplement plus the Oxy Boost gel from a tube before a run. It made a big improvement in keeping his brain working and more focused on his job and not nerves, IMO. While this will not replace training, it might help control the nerves so that the training can proceed. My guy was also off the track and was too nervous in the box to make a rope horse.
Good Luck.
I agree, he needs more slow work on the pattern, evident of last weekend! I thought about the Oxy-gen too!
I have a few races coming up that I will take him to for time onlys but no pressure.
What's odd is, so far he handles the box like a pro, I have only followed cattle out of the box but he doesn't try to run off, get defiant and try to turn around or break with out being asked. He runs right to the hip and stays there, he doesn't want to run ahead or drop back. My husband has his eye on him as his next horse! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
| Sounds like he is stressed in the new environment and I mean the arena. A warm up pen and at home are completly different. It will take time. My gelding is off the track and he has ran up the pen once. I use to do 3-4 time onlys. The first one at a trot, the second one at a lope, the third one at a lope but would stop at each barrel and walk around it, then the 4th I would let him go his own speed. My gelding had to get use to the environment. One main tool I used alot after he ran up the pen was one handed stops. I would do them at home and during time onlys. Asking for his attention and reaction at the drop of hat helps them calm down and re-focus. Do you feel like he has the correct bit in his mouth? |
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Expert
Posts: 1898
| spitzh - 2014-01-17 9:52 AM
Sounds like he is stressed in the new environment and I mean the arena. A warm up pen and at home are completly different. It will take time. My gelding is off the track and he has ran up the pen once. I use to do 3-4 time onlys. The first one at a trot, the second one at a lope, the third one at a lope but would stop at each barrel and walk around it, then the 4th I would let him go his own speed. My gelding had to get use to the environment. One main tool I used alot after he ran up the pen was one handed stops. I would do them at home and during time onlys. Asking for his attention and reaction at the drop of hat helps them calm down and re-focus. Do you feel like he has the correct bit in his mouth?
I did... at home. But I'm not so sure it's right at a show. I was using a twisted O-ring and martingale at home for a while but he was raising his head way up and felt like he was leaning on the martingale (if that makes any sense) and I knew that wouldn't be enough at a race so I did some playing around with bits and found that he really loved the Charmayne James Low Port Pretzel with a tie down. I had a ton of feel and he was really light both on the pattern and in dry work with it. I didn't feel like he was leaning or pulling on it like he does on some of the others I tried. He was really soft in the warm up pen at the race but clinched when I rode in to make my "run". I usually try to go less with my bit selection but I'm wondering if I need to step it up to something a little more aggressive. I am not a fan of combo bits, although I have several for just in case, but I am wondering if that is an avenue I need to explore a little?
I have a TON of bits and hacks if there is something you could suggest I try. At this point I am open to all suggestions. I bought him in the spring of 2012 gave him some time off, started softening him in the fall of 2012, did tons of ground work and riding to get him broke and then started the slow work in the spring of 2013. I feel like I've done my homework but his actions are proving otherwise. Blah! I've trained several nice horses and have never had one take so long to finally click! It's so disheartening!
Edited by cyount2009 2014-01-17 10:23 AM
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