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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
  
| What "D" is your horse consistent in, and in what region of the US?
What special features about their conformation do you think leads to them being sound?
How old were they when they were started under saddle?
How old were they when they were started on the pattern?
What kind of nutritional program are they in?
What type of shoing and shoes do you use on your sound horse?
What kinds of special care do you take (ie. booting, theraplate, chiropractor, supplements, etc.)
What type of living situation do you have them in? (Stalling, small turn out, large turn out etc)
What type of ground do you practice on the most? (Hard, shallow, deep)
Do you do a lot of pasture riding? How much?
How much do you haul, and to what type of competition? (Rodeo, jackpot, etc etc)
I'm seriously interested. I have all sorts of horses with problems, and I'm really into acquiring data---
If you can think of anything else that helps your horse to stay sound, please let me know!
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| I hate to say it but I think "sound horse" may be an oxymoron these days..... | |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Well, can't answer all your questions but we bought a 7 year old that we x rayed from head to toe and he was clean, clean, clean. Vet said it was the first time he had ever seen such a clean horse. I don't know when he was started but the seller we bought him from owned him 2 years. She was very wealthy and had him on 9 supplements, many were redundant, we took him off most of them. She did not run him often. We have owned him for 4 years. My daughter ran him about 4 times a month year round, all out 1D. He is just now starting to show a little sore when flexed and had his hocks done for the first time last month. He is turned out unless bad weather and has a 15x15 stall, feed soaked beet pulp and progressive pro add ultimate, alfalfa and coastal, gets no grain. He gets pentosan twice a month depending on how often we are going. I just run local jackpots and run in the 2D/3D so horses do not have to work that hard. My other 2 horses have the pretty normal aches and pains of barrel horses, hocks, etc. and showed signs of that when we bought them and knew they required good maintenance. There are so many factors to consider, how hard the horse is used, his build, his maintenace, does he know how to take care of himself. I have a friend whose horse really sinks his butt but if he does not trust the ground he will almost tiptoe around the barrels. He is smart and protects himself.
Edited by rodeomom3 2014-01-18 12:59 PM
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Badonkadonk
Posts: 4189
Location: Mississippi | classicpotatochip - 2014-01-18 12:01 PM
What "D" is your horse consistent in, and in what region of the US? 1D/2D depending on rider error. I'm in Mississippi.
What special features about their conformation do you think leads to them being sound? My mare is big and long but not horrible to look at but not perfect either. She has massive bone.
How old were they when they were started under saddle? Not sure probably 3y/o.
How old were they when they were started on the pattern? 3y/o. Got her as a futurity prospect but ran out of money. So she spent the better part of 3 years being a trail riding horse and occasionally running barrels.
What kind of nutritional program are they in? Just an oat basedb feed that the local feed mill bags and a little calf manna and hay.
What type of shoing and shoes do you use on your sound horse? Barefoot. She's never had shoes on.
What kinds of special care do you take (ie. booting, theraplate, chiropractor, supplements, etc.) Nothing
What type of living situation do you have them in? (Stalling, small turn out, large turn out etc) stalled and turned out in a large pasture with other horses whenever weathers good.
What type of ground do you practice on the most? (Hard, shallow, deep) I'm married to a team roper so literally any and all types.
Do you do a lot of pasture riding? How much? No
How much do you haul, and to what type of competition? (Rodeo, jackpot, etc etc) Mostly the ammy rodeos right now. Last year was a seasoning year and we didn't go much. Ill haul to a barrel race if its also BBR approved.
I'm seriously interested. I have all sorts of horses with problems, and I'm really into acquiring data---
If you can think of anything else that helps your horse to stay sound, please let me know!
I answered the questions. My mares 7. Sorry about any misspellings. I'm on my phone. | |
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  Living on the edge of common sense
Posts: 24139
Location: Carpenter, WY | classicpotatochip - 2014-01-18 10:01 AM What "D" is your horse consistent in, and in what region of the US? What special features about their conformation do you think leads to them being sound? How old were they when they were started under saddle? How old were they when they were started on the pattern? What kind of nutritional program are they in? What type of shoing and shoes do you use on your sound horse? What kinds of special care do you take (ie. booting, theraplate, chiropractor, supplements, etc.) What type of living situation do you have them in? (Stalling, small turn out, large turn out etc) What type of ground do you practice on the most? (Hard, shallow, deep) Do you do a lot of pasture riding? How much? How much do you haul, and to what type of competition? (Rodeo, jackpot, etc etc) I'm seriously interested. I have all sorts of horses with problems, and I'm really into acquiring data--- If you can think of anything else that helps your horse to stay sound, please let me know! I'm going to use Teehaha as my example as she will be 30 in a couple of months and is still sound and in good health.
She was started as a long yearling and ranched on a regular basis for years and years along with a 1D barrel horse in the CO area (but this was before D's..you can ask Gail about Knobby in this area), heel horse with pro earnings, calf horse and has completed first level dressage. She has a long trot and rhythm she gets into that she can go for miles and miles in. I think the big thing that has contributed to her good health is that she has been treated like a horse all her life. No special treatment, no special feed and has been barefoot the last 10-12 years now. Personally, unless you are competing seriously and at a high level and doing it all the time I think you're better off not pumping a bunch of stuff into their diets. She is also linebred Sugar Bars and Joe Reed II and a surviving twin that was born out in open pasture which shoots down the linbred and twin argument. She is also gray and has the melanomas under her tail for about 15 years now. Her conformation is good and the better the conformation the sounder they are going to stay IMO. She has been on all kinds of ground, rocks and terrain in her ranch days and the guys used to rock hop on her. She colicked once about 15 years ago and that is the only time in her whole life she has been sick or seen by a vet. I gave her a 4 way shot as a 8 yr old that she had a reaction too and I haven't vaccinated her for anything since. We''ve got a half dozen mares in their 20's or fast approaching them and they are all healthy, shiney, in foal and no special anything for any of them.
I don't think they make them like her anymore.
 http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/teehaha
This video is from last fall and you can see she still has a spring in her step
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlsgEK6dYKg
edited to add: I wish someone could come up with a genetics study of which lines keep them the healthiest or sound and believe that you need to count on your genetics to do alot of the business of keeping a horse healthy and sound.
Edited by teehaha 2014-01-18 3:24 PM
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | This is the only horse I've had that stayed sound for any length of time without a lot of help. He was a 20 second pole horse and a good rodeo barrel horse that today would probably be mostly a 2d/3d jackpot horse.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/gregs+red+bar | |
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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | classicpotatochip - 2014-01-17 1:01 PM
What "D" is your horse consistent in, and in what region of the US? 1 / 2 D.....Ga
What special features about their conformation do you think leads to them being sound? Good bone and not any real serious conformation issues.
How old were they when they were started under saddle? 2 /3
How old were they when they were started on the pattern? 3
What kind of nutritional program are they in? Just regular feed and hay.......no supplements.
What type of shoing and shoes do you use on your sound horse? Reg steel shows no rims on front and back. One mare is barefoot never had shoes.
What kinds of special care do you take (ie. booting, theraplate, chiropractor, supplements, etc.) None
What type of living situation do you have them in? (Stalling, small turn out, large turn out etc) Stall in during day out at night.
What type of ground do you practice on the most? (Hard, shallow, deep) Typically soft....unless indoors then more firm.
Do you do a lot of pasture riding? How much? Couple times a week......we do exercises in pasture....
How much do you haul, and to what type of competition? (Rodeo, jackpot, etc etc) 4D's mostly.......some rodeos.
I'm seriously interested. I have all sorts of horses with problems, and I'm really into acquiring data--- If you can think of anything else that helps your horse to stay sound, please let me know! Info on my 2 mares.......wanted to add that neither of the mares were raced or futuritied....or had there legs ran off....
Edited by CJE 2014-01-18 1:28 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 1440
Location: Texas | Dang Megan you need to publish your results!
The only horse that I have ever had that never had lameness issues is my old horse Buzzy ( if you know Wanda New ask her about him). He is now 30 and has only had a handful of lame steps in the 20 yrs I have had him. He is by Doc Athena out of a mare named Rico Fanny. My guess is he was a cutting horse drop out as he is on the bigger size 15.1. I got him at a 9 yr old and he was a finished horse. When I got him there was no D system...lol. He won quite a few places out right and ran at rodeos and jackpots. As the Ds developed he ran 2d consistently and still placed at some rodeos all in the San Ntonio area with BBrA in the 90s. . He needed deeper ground because he worked off his rear so hard he would slip on hard ground. He is a hot natured horse and still crow hops and gets on the muscle to this day. :)))! When I first got him I long trotted him for 30 minutes and loped about he sAme. We never prcticed as he would get to hot. I almost blew him sky high by practicing him when I first got him. We moved to Idaho an he really excelled there I think he liked the dryer climate. He was tough up there and those Idaho girls paid attention to this TX pair. .. We played at some open rodeos and Ammy rodeos and he was always a couple holes out of the money. He was 17 by this time. I let a girl high school rodeo on him and that was fun and he did well with her as she stayed out of his way. The. On to Florida in 2002 And he was 18 and was pretty much 3d. He did hand humidity well. For most of his time with me he was on alfalfa hay and omolene 200 or something equal. He had colic surgery in 1994 Broke his leg in 2010. I semi retired him in 2009 and fully retired him Cter he broke his leg Although I still ride him every once in a while. Quite frankly he is the toughest horse I have EVER owned and has had falls and things he should not have survived. One day I came home and saw that sucker walking around with a board nailed to his foot. He wasn't even a little gimpy. Crazy. He has great bone and is stocky built and has been pastured most of his life as he keeps a nasty stall. He drinks a full muck bucket of water a day. I wish all of mine were as tough and had as much heart as my old Buzzy Buzzard brain does him. He does not like to be pampered and has always been a little spooky and hard to catch but he loved his job and enjoys being a pasture pet now eating cookies , he is now on purine equine senior now because he doesn't have many teeth left but he is a happy dude who still runs around pasture in cool weather and buck and snorts. Oh he was mostly pasture ridden and stayed shod till he retired.
Sorry this turned into a book and I hope it answered at least some of your questions. I think as a whole breeding as made our horses more fragile with less bone and that is part of the problem. We have also made conditions easier for horses with better ground etc so when the encounter bad ground they get hurt because they don't know how to handle it. I personally try to let mine be as much as a normal horse in the pasture as possible to condition them to using their bodies in all situations.
My big horse has stayed sound with the exception of his back and he is 16.2 and BIG boned but is a WIMP. He cries if he looses A shoe. Lol.
Edited by barrelbasher 2014-01-18 2:03 PM
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | What "D" is your horse consistent in, and in what region of the US? 1-3 local, solid 3 super shows.... IN/IL
What special features about their conformation do you think leads to them being sound? straight legs, decent feet, no big conformation issues
How old were they when they were started under saddle? prob 3... i did not own him
How old were they when they were started on the pattern? 5, with me
What kind of nutritional program are they in? Triple Crown Complete, Rice Bran, Grass or Grass/Alfalfa mix hay
What type of shoing and shoes do you use on your sound horse? Steel rims on fronts, bare back
What kinds of special care do you take (ie. booting, theraplate, chiropractor, supplements, etc.) Boot fronts and wrap back legs for runs, PHT blanket and BOT as needed, MSM daily, Pentosan as needed, Inject lower hocks as needed (usually last 3-6 months when being hauled, I am hoping the pentosan helps keep that longer). Cold hose legs and poultice after runs.
What type of living situation do you have them in? (Stalling, small turn out, large turn out etc) turned out in an indoor arena, stalled only for feeding
What type of ground do you practice on the most? (Hard, shallow, deep) usually grass, sometimes harder dirt in the indoor (but just walking and trotting
Do you do a lot of pasture riding? How much? I ride in the pasture 90% of the time. My horse does not need tuning right now as he's 17 this year
How much do you haul, and to what type of competition? (Rodeo, jackpot, etc etc) 4D's... usually every or every other weekend may-sept. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1815
| I am going to post something a little different than what you're asking......as in why my horses have not been sound. NUMBER 1 in my book is shoeing! I had a maternal sister to an NFR horse that has forever problems ~ shod unlevel and I didn't know what I was looking at during her growing years, uneven joint wear ~ permanent problem. 2nd horse ~ same story. Years ago I had a nice mare that I ran the living crap out of, no supplements other than Vit E as she would tie up without it, shod by a good farrier ~ xrayed at 13 with perfect joints. That particular farrier now lives a state away. This year switched to a farrier that has shod some very successful horses ~ went to the state show and my horse was checked by animal crackers.......no soreness anywhere. Just my deductions, but shoeing is key I believe | |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | The soundness problems I had with my gelding last year were totally a shoeing issue. Right this second tho, he has a bruised heel because he kept bucking when I was walking him down the gravel road to get to a dry place to trot and lope, so I trotted him on the gravel to preserve my safety. LOL | |
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 "Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | I would say that most of my soundness issues were due to shoeing. Mine are all barefoot now. However, I've had one with an OCD lesion that came back sound after surgery. And my mare appeared to have stifle problems, but it ended up being caused by PSSM. But from my little experience shoeing is the death of a lot of horses. When you can take a lame thoroghbred off the track and in 6 months have him walking across rocks without a gimp, it speaks volumes! And also a lame navicular barrel horse who no vet or farrier could get pasture sound and in a few months you're riding him 2 hours a day without the first bad step... Again, barefoot. Well, that's why I've drank the Kool-Aid! | |
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 Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | classicpotatochip - 2014-01-18 1:01 PM What "D" is your horse consistent in, and in what region of the US? What special features about their conformation do you think leads to them being sound? How old were they when they were started under saddle? How old were they when they were started on the pattern? What kind of nutritional program are they in? What type of shoing and shoes do you use on your sound horse? What kinds of special care do you take (ie. booting, theraplate, chiropractor, supplements, etc.) What type of living situation do you have them in? (Stalling, small turn out, large turn out etc) What type of ground do you practice on the most? (Hard, shallow, deep) Do you do a lot of pasture riding? How much? How much do you haul, and to what type of competition? (Rodeo, jackpot, etc etc) I'm seriously interested. I have all sorts of horses with problems, and I'm really into acquiring data--- If you can think of anything else that helps your horse to stay sound, please let me know!
I'll answer as my good horse was in GA. I haven't had a good solid chance to run him in MO yet.
In Ga he was a solid 1D horse locally and 2D (check winner) at super shows (500 plus riders).
I think two things help keep him sound aside from good conformation. First, he's lighter boned, not a heavy horse, and he has a super nice way of moving so he's not hard on himself.
He was 2 when lightly started under saddle, three when started full time, and five when he was started on the pattern.
As far as feed program, good nutritional grain, high fat and fiber, free choice hay and all the alfalfa he can eat. He wastes more then he eats and is a horribly picky hay eater.
Shoes, had him in Razers in GA, switched back to plain in MO.
He gets rubbed, cold hosed, PHT magentic blanket, bell boots, leg wraps, bleeder meds. He is turned out as much as possible because he is a horrible stall pacer. Though at big shows he lays flat and sleeps the whole time.
He is trail ridden to stay legged up and rarely sees the arena except to compete. Very rarely do I even exhibition him. | |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I'll answer with a couple of mine. Tank is truly the only horse I own right now who has NOT had some sort of major lameness or injury that required a procedure. I have two others who have needed something but are sound now.
First of all I believe that a horse can return to soundness, and it shouldn't be held against them if they had an injury and recovered from it. WE are the ones asking them to compete, and injuries come with the territory. Many of them can be reduced and prevented with proper conditioning and pre/post run routines. Some of them just are plain bad luck.
What "D" is your horse consistent in, and in what region of the US? 1D and 2D locally in TX. our "local" jackpots have about 150+ in the open.
What special features about their conformation do you think leads to them being sound? balanced conformation, good angle to hocks (havent needed them injected in years), I keep his weight managed.
How old were they when they were started under saddle? two years old
How old were they when they were started on the pattern? three years old, running at 4
What kind of nutritional program are they in? Enrich plus ration balancer plus grass hay and alfalfa, red cell, pasture.
What type of shoing and shoes do you use on your sound horse? rims on fronts and st croixs on hind. Nothing special or fancy. don't have rims on hinds on him.
What kinds of special care do you take (ie. booting, theraplate, chiropractor, supplements, etc.) overreach boots and iconoclasts on fronts when I run, Back On Track blanket and hood, red cell supplement. nothing else.
What type of living situation do you have them in? (Stalling, small turn out, large turn out etc) 12X14 stall with 24X32 run. daily pasture turn out weather permitting.
What type of ground do you practice on the most? (Hard, shallow, deep) I have an outdoor arena at home with pretty good ground. average depth can be deep if we till it instead of drag it.
Do you do a lot of pasture riding? How much? only if the arena is too wet to ride in. sparingly do I ride in the pasture.
How much do you haul, and to what type of competition? (Rodeo, jackpot, etc etc)usually 3 runs a month, one run per weekend. local 5D jackpots with 150+ entries. Sometimes will go to an added money show.
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 BHW Jr. Cougar of the Year
Posts: 14957
Location: Heart of Texas | This is the only horse that I have ever had that stayed sound. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/barettas+war+jet
We rodeod from Texas to Montana to Georgia to Michigan and every where in between for 7 years in the 90's. Solid 1D, before there were D's. I ran her year round, every weekend. Not one lame step in all those years. She was 8 when I got her, and 15 when I sold her. She was on the track at two. When I sold her she did come up with a spot on her ankle in the vet check. I had no idea anything was even sore. She was as tough and mean as they come. She might have had some soreness, but never showed it and never didn't win. She was built to run, and thickened up as the years went on. About 15 hands. She had good bone structure and feet. We didn't really do any supplements. Maybe red cell sometimes. I believe she was just too mean and loved running barrels too much to let soreness get to her. lol
Every horse that I have had since has been unsound. Especially the one I have now that was a cutter. One thing after another.
Edited by T-Zip 2014-01-18 8:10 PM
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Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. 
Very interesting so far! | |
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 As Good As I Once Was
Posts: 1211
Location: frozen tundra of pa | classicpotatochip - 2014-01-18 2:01 PM What "D" is your horse consistent in,1or 2 d depends on run. and in what region of the US?Eastern us What special features about their conformation do you think leads to them being sound?Big stout and well balanced How old were they when they were started under saddle? dont know How old were they when they were started on the pattern?3 What kind of nutritional program are they in?none What type of shoing and shoes do you use on your sound horse?rims nothing special What kinds of special care do you take (ie. booting, theraplate, chiropractor, supplements, etc.)Nothing out of the ordinary What type of living situation do you have them in?out 24/7 (Stalling, small turn out, large turn out etc) What type of ground do you practice on the most? (Hard, shallow, deep)shallow little practice though Do you do a lot of pasture riding?yes How much?mostly for exercise How much do you haul,try to go as much as possible april to oct local and couple big 4ds and to what type of competition? (Rodeo, jackpot, etc etc) I'm seriously interested. I have all sorts of horses with problems, and I'm really into acquiring data--- If you can think of anything else that helps your horse to stay sound, please let me know!
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | I can't answer all questions since I don't really barrel race but I will tell you what I can. Going in reverse!
In the summer, we are usually gone Fri-Sun at 3-5 rodeos. But I rope, so it's only for a 3 second run.
I do a lot of pasture riding. If I am just exercising, I always go to the field. If I've got time, I'll warm up in the pasture and then rope in the arena.
Our arena ground is shallow and has small rocks. Not the best, but you work with what you've got.
Our horses are either in turnout with pasture, in a dry lot, or in a large outdoor stall. (Prob 3x the size of a normal stall).
I don't do anything special besides Chiro, and injections when needed.
Nutritionally, they have the pasture, grass/alfalfa hay if they need it, and now we're trying out Renew Gold. Before they were on COB and fine. Salt lick as well.
I contribute the soundness of my horses to my horse shoer. Same one for the last 10 years and my horse was only lame once, when his pen got really wet. I think he was just tender footed. ***knock on wood*** | |
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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | classicpotatochip - 2014-01-18 12:01 PM What "D" is your horse consistent in, and in what region of the US? What special features about their conformation do you think leads to them being sound? How old were they when they were started under saddle? How old were they when they were started on the pattern? What kind of nutritional program are they in? What type of shoing and shoes do you use on your sound horse? What kinds of special care do you take (ie. booting, theraplate, chiropractor, supplements, etc.) What type of living situation do you have them in? (Stalling, small turn out, large turn out etc) What type of ground do you practice on the most? (Hard, shallow, deep) Do you do a lot of pasture riding? How much? How much do you haul, and to what type of competition? (Rodeo, jackpot, etc etc) I'm seriously interested. I have all sorts of horses with problems, and I'm really into acquiring data--- If you can think of anything else that helps your horse to stay sound, please let me know!
I'll answer these with regard to my 21 year old gelding Joker. He's never been injected, never been injured beyond a simple cut, has some breathing issues we are able to manage, and of course arthritis but that's to be expected at his age.
He's consistent 2D/3D big shows and can occasionally place at amatuer rodeos (hard ground, slick ground or mud required) in eastern Kansas/western Missouri/southern Iowa & Nebraska.
He has good bone, big feet and is balanced. There's nothing too special about him. He's just a tough old horse that was built to last.
He was started under saddle as a late two year old but barely got ridden that fall. We really started riding him spring of his 3 year old year. I was in middle school when I got him and so started playing on the pattern when he was 4.
Ever since I got him in August of his 2 year old year, he's been fed just basic corn/oats/molasses/etc mix from the local co-op. We've adjusted the ration a little bit from time to time but for the most part it's been a lot of ground corn and ground oats with some minerals mixed in and molasses to hold it all together. We feed prairie hay, via round bales in the winter and square bales the rest of the time, plus free choice grass whenever possible.
He's barefoot and always has been.
He gets SmartFlexIII Resilience and Smart Breathe supplements daily, regular Adequan shots (probably a series of 3 once or twice a year), has been to the chiropractor once in his life, runs in polos on the front and Professional Choice skid boots on the back, used to run him in sport boots on the front but I like polos because they keep dirt out better, if exercised faster than a walk wears bell boots. I do haul him with PHT magnetic wraps on his hocks and now he's got a pair of Soft Rides but he didn't get any of that stuff until he was probably 15.
He's turned out 24/7 either in a 20-acre pasture, a smaller pasture at my brother's place, or a large lot with some grass to pick at.
I don't do any barrel work with him and haven't in probably 10 years. I usually just pony him for exercise and then enter up on weekends. In the spring, I have to actually ride him because I keep my others legged up through the winter and I let him have a vacation so he can't keep up with them when I start bringing him back.
I used to haul very little - just local horse shows and NBHAs within a couple hours of the house - but when he was 10, I went to some amatuer rodeos a few hours from home, then a few years later I started going more often and to bigger races. In 2011, I hauled him quite a bit as a backup to my rodeo horse but didn't run him at very many rodeos. In 2012, I was hauling him more until he choked, got pneumonia and ended up at K-State's vet hospital for 5 days. I took him to my parents place and turned him out for 6 weeks after that. Rode him twice, my brother rode him once, and when my good rodeo horse bled, I had to grab him on my way to another rodeo. He pulled a check after not having run in 10 weeks and since then I've hauled him more but still limited his runs. He might go to 2 rodeos and 2 barrel races in a weekend but only run once. I pick his pens and don't run him more than once in a day now.
I really don't think there's any secret to Joker's soundness. He is just a tough old horse who was built to last. Honestly since I trained him to run barrels before I knew better, I patterned him on grass so he learned how to stand up on anything (and I do mean anything.....He is my go-to horse whenever the ground is shifty or slick). I won't do that again, but it darn sure contributed to his surefootedness. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1482
Location: on my horse | What is this sound horse that you speak of  | |
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