|
|
 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
  
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I just read a statement by the the President, commemorating this 41st anniversary:
"Today, as we reflect on the 41st anniversary of the Supreme Court decision in Roe v. Wade, we recommit ourselves to the decision’s guiding principle: that every woman should be able to make her own choices about her body and her health. We reaffirm our steadfast commitment to protecting a woman’s access to safe, affordable health care and her constitutional right to privacy, including the right to reproductive freedom. And we resolve to reduce the number of unintended pregnancies, support maternal and child health, and continue to build safe and healthy communities for all our children. Because this is a country where everyone deserves the same freedom and opportunities to fulfill their dreams."
I'm curious, Barack......what about the 55 million souls who have been exterminated since Rowe v Wade? They had NO opportunity to fulfill their dreams. What about them? Nevermind.......they can't vote, so they don't matter.
| |
| | |
 Forever Young
Posts: 6768
 
Location: relocated to Texas | Agree. This is the lingo that they use to sell abortion to women. They don't talk about the number of babies who are murdered, or the number of women who live with regret and remorse for making the decision to eliminate their child. I see your post received some dislikes, but I wonder if those same people would rally behind the idea of aborting an unborn foal? Man is suppose to be a superior species, yet those in the animal kingdom take better care of their babies than many people do. | |
| | |
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I think it's a very hard pill to swallow when you have a statistic like 55 million babies that were robbed of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". If someone dislikes my remarks, I won't take it personal. In fact, I pity them because they probably carry a lot of guilt with them. I has to be very hard.
My oldest child came close to being one of those 55 million. If she were one of those dead babies, I am sure I would "dislike" myself. | |
| | |
Location: las vegas nv | Lets just take the political lingo out ,you are either Pro Life or Pro Death. | |
| | |
 Expert
Posts: 1304
| I hate to get into this politic crap but this abortion stuff is difficult...I don't believe in it and I've went over the exceptions in my mind such as if you have a health problem or you've been raped..but I still think a life is a life. If it's a matter of life and death, I can see where it'd be necessary. If you're raped, I could see where it's necessary too but I also think that that baby didn't ask to be a product of rape and adoption would be the best alternative. I'm worried that if abortion was so legal with little regulation, that many will take advantage of it. The problem is is how can we regulate it and decide on who needs it and who doesn't? I think that if you lay down and decide to have sex, no matter how much protection you use, it's not always 100% and you should still have to be ready to deal with the consequences. I'm afraid that abortion could the be an easy way out if it becomes so available. The only thing that sucks is when people decide to do it themselves at home or ruin the kid's lives if they are made to keep it. Adoption is the best alternative in my opinion. I'm torn but I think that in regular situations (not health or rape related), be responsible and either don't have sex or just come to terms that you could very well have a baby. Your choice. Anyways, dislike the hell out of it if you want but that's my opinion and we all have em. | |
| | |
 Veteran
Posts: 253
Location: EDGE OF INSANITY | Abortion (and our president) makes me sick. I can not fathom killing your own child. Due to complications my second child was brought into this world 2 months early via emergency c-section. The time he spent in the hospital after that was one of the most difficult times of my life. On one hand i was glad that the issue was found (or else he would have been a stillborn) but i can tell you leaving your child in the NICU everyday to go take care of your other kids is an AWFUL feeling that i would never wish on anyone. From the time my oldest got on the school bus til the time he got off, i was at the hospital with my little on, doing nothing but staring at him (we couldn't hold him for a couple of weeks) i can not imagine wanting to hurt a sweet baby on purpose. On the other hand though, i do wonder what kind of life those children would have had living with a mother who has no problem killing an innocent life-i've seen women who treat their kids real sh!tty, and i've seen the outcome - good and bad of these kids | |
| | |
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | He ended his remarks regarding Rowe V Wade with this:
"Because this is a country where everyone deserves the same freedom and opportunities to fulfill their dreams."
That's what really stuck in my craw. His remarks on the anniversary of the SCOTUS decision which paved the way to the legal termination of 55 million innocent lives, ended with that comment where EVERYONE deserves the same freedom and opportunities to fulfill their dreams.....and I instantly thought, "yeah, right, everyone except the most innocent babies!" World War II cost about the same number of lives, and that was across the globe. Oh I am sure Obama is not alone in his sentiments. Satan must be gloating as well. | |
| | |
 Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | Regardless of how people 'feel' about it, this should NOT be a political issue. Keep the government out of it. There are many compelling & thought provoking arguments for both sides and ultimately it is a choice & should be kept that way...stop trying to legislate morality! All that happens is we lose all our rights!
We lose our voice on matters where we really could make a difference.
The religious right will never win at this rate.
The day will come when the rate of abortion wanes....and it won't be because it's illegal. | |
| | |
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | musikmaker - 2014-01-22 5:54 PM Regardless of how people 'feel' about it, this should NOT be a political issue. Keep the government out of it. There are many compelling & thought provoking arguments for both sides and ultimately it is a choice & should be kept that way...stop trying to legislate morality! All that happens is we lose all our rights!
We lose our voice on matters where we really could make a difference.
The religious right will never win at this rate.
The day will come when the rate of abortion wanes....and it won't be because it's illegal.
You are exactly right MM! "Abortion rights" has been a political tool for decades now. In recent years it morphed into a more euphemistic term: "reproductive rights" and it was a vital component in the "War on women" mantra. Obama used this solemn anniversary to make his remarks, under the guise of "freedom". I don't think it can be legislated either. I see the support for abortion on the wane......partly because of discussions like this. | |
| | |
Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | HotbearLVR - 2014-01-22 5:03 PM musikmaker - 2014-01-22 5:54 PM Regardless of how people 'feel' about it, this should NOT be a political issue. Keep the government out of it. There are many compelling & thought provoking arguments for both sides and ultimately it is a choice & should be kept that way...stop trying to legislate morality! All that happens is we lose all our rights!
We lose our voice on matters where we really could make a difference.
The religious right will never win at this rate.
The day will come when the rate of abortion wanes....and it won't be because it's illegal. You are exactly right MM! "Abortion rights" has been a political tool for decades now. In recent years it morphed into a more euphemistic term: "reproductive rights" and it was a vital component in the "War on women" mantra. Obama used this solemn anniversary to make his remarks, under the guise of "freedom". I don't think it can be legislated either. I see the support for abortion on the wane......partly because of discussions like this.
Trouble is...we need men like Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, Rand Paul...yet, they shoot themselves in the foot by even speaking of abortion. They desperately need to remove themselves from the issue. THEN and ONLY then, will they have a chance at helping to make our country great again.
We need them...we do not need this debate. | |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 1561
| Whats your definition abortrion?
| |
| | |
 Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | Very good friend of our family has a child with CMD. This child is 4 years old and severely handicapped. She is on a barrage of med's and when she is not medicated to the point of being somnolent she is fussy, has major muscle spasms, has no idea what is happening around her and is fed thru a feeding tube. She only sleeps when she is over medicated. Her life expediency is 6-10 years. This is her life. The mom wishes she would have done something different as they knew the child had this prior to birth. I had no suggestions for her, only prayers. But seeing her and knowing what the child and family are going thru, I tend to agree. Flame away. | |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 1304
| Thank you for giving me a different perspective on things...kinda slipped my mind. I'm not bein sarcastic either. Makes it very very difficult.. | |
| | |
 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| After trying a horse at the Still Creek Ranch facility, I became a bi-yearly contributor to their equine program. I saw the oodles and oodles of little kids that didn't have anywhere to go. A good many of them had some sort of health problem, usually because of mothers that used drugs during pregnancy. Even though it hurts my heart, I just don't think that abortion should be outlawed. We put our animals down when their "quality of life" because of pain or mental suffering becomes what we deem "too much'. Why should doing the same for our fellow man that cannot think for themselves that we bear a direct responsibility for be any different?
In a perfect world, all healthy babies would be born, loved, kept, adopted, fed well, treated well, cherished, educated, and given the down payment on their first home. In a perfect world, women wouldn't be irresponsible, men wouldn't be idiots, and every baby would be welcomed into this world.
It is not a perfect world. Horrible things happen. If we illegalize abortion, women will be using (and dying horrible deaths) using coat hangers, lutalyse, and a good many other horrible ideas. Abortion dates back thousands of years, WAY before Christianity. I'm sorry, I'm not willing to trade my sisters, aunts, mothers, and friends because they don't want to be pregnant. An abortion is between a woman and herself. It's not between a woman and the media. It's not between a woman and President Obama. It's not between a woman and you. It's not between a woman and me. I think it's an absolute shame that something so incredibly private and shattering is even publicized by someone as loud and crude as a politician. That is the true shame. | |
| | |
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | justcruzin - 2014-01-22 6:23 PM Very good friend of our family has a child with CMD. This child is 4 years old and severely handicapped. She is on a barrage of med's and when she is not medicated to the point of being somnolent she is fussy, has major muscle spasms, has no idea what is happening around her and is fed thru a feeding tube. She only sleeps when she is over medicated. Her life expediency is 6-10 years. This is her life. The mom wishes she would have done something different as they knew the child had this prior to birth. I had no suggestions for her, only prayers. But seeing her and knowing what the child and family are going thru, I tend to agree. Flame away.
Here's the problem as I see it. You, me, and many others know of tragic instances like this. We all know of families where, in retrospect, there is second guessing. There are instances like this practically everyone knows about. I'm not going to sit here in judgement of people who decide upon abortion when they know they have a baby with a fatal condition or a very severe physical or mental disability which is almost as bad. What I find most disturbing is instances where abortion is preferable simply because the pregnant mother simply does not want another child. That, I submit, comprises the overwhelming majority of abortions. Reasons vary from depression, to financial burden, to simple inconvenience. I also think that a lot of women who opt for abortion don't really fully understand what that entails, nor do they expect the phycological burden that follows an abortion. Also, they often times don't realize the extent to which a fetus has developed at the time they choose to terminate it's life....and that is precisely what it is....termnating a life. If we are all operating on the premise that abortion can't be abolished completely via legislation, then we are talking about an effort to promote alternatives to abortion and an effort to promote the rewards of selflessly allowing the baby to be born so that he/she can go through life and pursue his/her dreams and goals and achieve happiness. Apart from instances of severe birth defects, etc..., it is hard for me to imagine that an abortion is a lifelong, richly rewarding experience. On the other hand, to allow an unwanted life to live has immense potential to be very rewarding. If you talk to mothers who had an unwanted child and gave it up, you seldom hear them say they wish they would have had an abortion. Improvements in ultrasound technology has led to people's increasing awareness that this is, indeed, a real life they are choosing to terminate. Public opinion on this, in fact, does seem to be swaying in opposition to abortion, when only a few years ago, the country was split 50:50.
I also make a distinction between those of us who feel that abortion, while abhorrent, nonetheless ought to be an individual's choice. These people are "pro-choice". There is another segment in our society that is so militant on this issue that they actually seem to celebrate a woman's choice to have life terminated. They aren't "pro-choice", in my opinion. They are "pro-abortion". There's a huge difference. We can talk about the personal anecdotes and exceptions, however, In the end, we have 55 million lives terminated. A very small minority of those are for legitimate medical reasons. Most are simply exerminated for reasons of convenience. I'm glad I don't have to carry that burden of guilt for the rest of my life.
| |
| | |
Veteran
Posts: 253
Location: EDGE OF INSANITY | i sure would like to know why my comment piffed two people off? most of my post was about my baby in the nicu, huh? | |
| | |
 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | HotbearLVR - 2014-01-21 8:53 PM justcruzin - 2014-01-22 6:23 PM Very good friend of our family has a child with CMD. This child is 4 years old and severely handicapped. She is on a barrage of med's and when she is not medicated to the point of being somnolent she is fussy, has major muscle spasms, has no idea what is happening around her and is fed thru a feeding tube. She only sleeps when she is over medicated. Her life expediency is 6-10 years. This is her life. The mom wishes she would have done something different as they knew the child had this prior to birth. I had no suggestions for her, only prayers. But seeing her and knowing what the child and family are going thru, I tend to agree. Flame away. Here's the problem as I see it. You, me, and many others know of tragic instances like this. We all know of families where, in retrospect, there is second guessing. There are instances like this practically everyone knows about. I'm not going to sit here in judgement of people who decide upon abortion when they know they have a baby with a fatal condition or a very severe physical or mental disability which is almost as bad. What I find most disturbing is instances where abortion is preferable simply because the pregnant mother simply does not want another child. That, I submit, comprises the overwhelming majority of abortions. Reasons vary from depression, to financial burden, to simple inconvenience. I also think that a lot of women who opt for abortion don't really fully understand what that entails, nor do they expect the phycological burden that follows an abortion. Also, they often times don't realize the extent to which a fetus has developed at the time they choose to terminate it's life....and that is precisely what it is....termnating a life. If we are all operating on the premise that abortion can't be abolished completely via legislation, then we are talking about an effort to promote alternatives to abortion and an effort to promote the rewards of selflessly allowing the baby to be born so that he/she can go through life and pursue his/her dreams and goals and achieve happiness. Apart from instances of severe birth defects, etc..., it is hard for me to imagine that an abortion is a lifelong, richly rewarding experience. On the other hand, to allow an unwanted life to live has immense potential to be very rewarding. If you talk to mothers who had an unwanted child and gave it up, you seldom hear them say they wish they would have had an abortion. Improvements in ultrasound technology has led to people's increasing awareness that this is, indeed, a real life they are choosing to terminate. Public opinion on this, in fact, does seem to be swaying in opposition to abortion, when only a few years ago, the country was split 50:50.
I also make a distinction between those of us who feel that abortion, while abhorrent, nonetheless ought to be an individual's choice. These people are "pro-choice". There is another segment in our society that is so militant on this issue that they actually seem to celebrate a woman's choice to have life terminated. They aren't "pro-choice", in my opinion. They are "pro-abortion". There's a huge difference. We can talk about the personal anecdotes and exceptions, however, In the end, we have 55 million lives terminated. A very small minority of those are for legitimate medical reasons. Most are simply exerminated for reasons of convenience. I'm glad I don't have to carry that burden of guilt for the rest of my life.
So true.......... | |
| | |
 BHW's Lance Armstrong 
Posts: 11134
Location: Somewhere between S@%&# stirrer and Saint | Obama is a Selfish Son - of - a - *****! He is all about the me syndrome. | |
| | |
BHW's Lance Armstrong
Posts: 11134
Location: Somewhere between S@%&# stirrer and Saint | Hey without abortion we wouldn't have Los Alamitos Race Track! Sorry to say! | |
| | |
 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | The older I get the more pro life I become. When I was in high school, I remember being made felt that if you were pro life you were backward or behind the times, and that in order to pro women's rights you should be pro choice. I remember the thought process of many girls in school that there wasn't much to worry about because you could just "get it taken care of"…Where I went to college, oh dear it was the same way…at least in the Biology department where I had most of my friends. At the college I went to, they had a display case of fetuses throughout all stages of pregnancy, showing the different stages of development. I guess for curiosity's sake one day I asked my friend and his girlfriend, when we were looking at the display, when they thought life began. They both were convinced up and down that the fetus was not alive until it was born to term, and that it was only a parasite off the mother because if you left it to it's own, it would die. I was speechless.. I guess in my mind I was expecting them to say "when they have a heart beat" or something. With the logic they had, we are all parasite for the first several years of life or more!
Anyway, the older I get, the more I lean toward being pro life. A friend of mine told me, people think you aren't pro women's rights if you are against abortions, but really you are for the rights of those who don't have a voice of their own. I personally believe life begins at conception. I'm taking embryology right now and it's amazing how fast cells start dividing and organs start forming. That heart is forming before a lot of people know they are pregnant. So I am looking at it on a scientific and emotional standpoint… I feel there is a place for abortions given circumstances of health, rape, incest, etc… but I hate how some people take advantage of it. I also wouldn't like the government telling me I couldn't do something. I am conflicted. | |
| |
| |
Folks on-line