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Common Sense and then some
    
Location: So. California | After many discussions on another board about the new AQHA requirement for 5 panel (HYPP, PSSM1, GBED, HERDA, MH) on stallions breeding 25+ mares in 2014, what is your thoughts on this requirement for barrel horses? I see quite a few stallion owners getting their stallions tested now and results are starting to pop up in ads and on websites. Thoughts on testing mares? Do you require 5 panel test prior to purchasing a prospect? What about non-AQHA stock breeds? |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I, to my knowledge, have never had one that had any of the 5 panel issues. I also keep up with most of the owners of my horses and none of them have had an issue. My stallion is entering the end of his breeding career so I will probably not bother with the expense.
I will however, test any future stallion we buy and most likely the mares. I may even do the mares we have now and will keep for a while. I think as a breeder, even if you have horses that don't carry the genetics of these diseases, it will help make your foals more marketable. There will be buyers out there that don't know what horses carry what genetic defects and may pass your horses over if they haven't been tested for ones that have been tested. |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | I expect a test for a stallion or mare purchase. I am looking at a gelding but I will not bother test based on his pedigree. |
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 Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | I'm testing all of my horses and if they get a genetic test of PSSM2 I'll test for it as well. So far none of my horses have been positive for anything or shown signs of pssm2. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1889
Location: Texas | I've tested all of our breeding stock for PSSM type 1 and several for the 5 panel. I won't breed to a stallion or buy a horse unless it is negative across the board for the 5 panel. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| Any stallion I will even consider must be negative across the board for 5 panel, because why take the chance of breeding something like that? There is no stallion good enough for me to risk my foal OR my foal's foals having a genetic disorder when there are plenty of N/N stallions out there that are nice quality. |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | As of now I am not actively seeking only horses who have been 5 panel tested. But, once it comes around more, or if I know the horse has been tested- they must be negative on all 5 tests.
I haven't tested my mares yet and will probably wait until it becomes a requirement. I am not too concerned as their bloodlines wouldn't lead me to suspect any of the genetic diseases they are testing for. But I will gladly do the test if it becomes required. |
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 The Color Specialist
Posts: 7530
Location: Washington. (The DRY side.) | I wouldn't hesitate to breed to a stallion that was a GBED Carrier if I knew the mare was N/N. I will be testing all mares as well as my stallion. I already tested one of my mares and she is N/N across the board on the 5 panel test. (I only had the one mare at the time, I will also be testing the other mare I got since then.) It's not that I suspected anything, but YOU NEVER KNOW. Hence the reason for testing. I KNOW there is no chance for HYPP nor HERDA based on pedigree. The others you can't rule out based on pedigree alone. I also expect AQHA to require 5 panel testing on broodmares in the not too distant future. May as well do it "before the rush". |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | This page is a quick recap of the 5 genetic diseases. http://manc.umd.edu/Abstracts2010/LenzHYPP%20abstract.pdf
The university of Minnesota http://www.cvm.umn.edu/umec/lab/home.html
GBED and HERDA are recessive
HYPP, PSSM1 and MH are dominant
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| Keep in mind AQHA, USC AT DAVIS and Minnesota are the HORSEMAN'S IRS.... they can invent more trash to tax you on than the real IRS ... by way of additional and always increasing fees .... THEY NEVER GET ENOUGH!!
I can't understand why anyone would support the 5 panel tests when there are NO realistic horse numbers presented in the reports .....
I almost puked when they said one went all the way back to King P234 .....
another one showed death rate of foals to be more than the death rate of all quarter horses combined ...
Another one said a horse would die if temperature was more than 104F ... of course they used 40C in the report since most americans are dumb on how to convert ... C to F .. and this is if they are going to be sedated with those air temperatures present or you could cool them down with water or fans .... duhhhh .... Ask anyone from Arizona why all of their horses are not dead when even nighttime temps stay above 95F with day time >115F ....
Of course everyone has seen the one photograph of a bad case of sun/rain scald on a Mississippi or Louisiana horse provided by the dimwit that invented the HERDA DNA nonsense ... and again it traces back to KING P234 THRU POCO BUENO ....
PSSM is another fad disease that vets and drug makers are making a mint off of ... instead of telling horse owner to get their horses in shape before they go run the HXXX out of them ...
HYPP was created by overdosing Impressive with steroids and the trainers and owners that did it are all in the AQHA HALL OF FAME ... please note that within 4-5 generations or 10 years the occurrence of HYPP is not an issue .... even with the APHA continuing to breed the supposed carriers ....
I dare any of you to show pictures and pedigrees of horses that YOU HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN OR OWNED with any of the above ....
What you need to be doing is getting rid of all of your barn and house cats that are the principal carriers of EPM ... NOT THE POSSUM ... who carries an entirely different strain that does not affect horses or other livestock ...
And on the other hand ... be working on getting rid of the politicians that are embedded in AQHA taking money out of your families budget for meaningless imagined diseases ... and DNA tests ...
This 5 panel test is a money grab by everyone involved from your vet all the way to the labs and AQHA ...
I am definitely putting in a rule change form to AQHA and APHA for all horses in Colorado and Washington to have drug tests run for medical marijuana exposure or better yet make marijuana legal to be used as a pain and mood / brain changer for all horses in the USA...
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2014-02-13 2:35 AM
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | It appears you don't science
That is unfortunate. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-02-13 12:54 AM Keep in mind AQHA, USC AT DAVIS and Minnesota are the HORSEMAN'S IRS.... they can invent more trash to tax you on than the real IRS ... by way of additional and always increasing fees .... THEY NEVER GET ENOUGH!! I can't understand why anyone would support the 5 panel tests when there are NO realistic horse numbers presented in the reports ..... I almost puked when they said one went all the way back to King P234 ..... another one showed death rate of foals to be more than the death rate of all quarter horses combined ... Another one said a horse would die if temperature was more than 104F ... of course they used 40C in the report since most americans are dumb on how to convert ... C to F .. and this is if they are going to be sedated with those air temperatures present or you could cool them down with water or fans .... duhhhh .... Ask anyone from Arizona why all of their horses are not dead when even nighttime temps stay above 95F with day time >115F .... Of course everyone has seen the one photograph of a bad case of sun/rain scald on a Mississippi or Louisiana horse provided by the dimwit that invented the HERDA DNA nonsense ... and again it traces back to KING P234 THRU POCO BUENO .... PSSM is another fad disease that vets and drug makers are making a mint off of ... instead of telling horse owner to get their horses in shape before they go run the HXXX out of them ... HYPP was created by overdosing Impressive with steroids and the trainers and owners that did it are all in the AQHA HALL OF FAME ... please note that within 4-5 generations or 10 years the occurrence of HYPP is not an issue .... even with the APHA continuing to breed the supposed carriers .... I dare any of you to show pictures and pedigrees of horses that YOU HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN OR OWNED with any of the above .... What you need to be doing is getting rid of all of your barn and house cats that are the principal carriers of EPM ... NOT THE POSSUM ... who carries an entirely different strain that does not affect horses or other livestock ... And on the other hand ... be working on getting rid of the politicians that are embedded in AQHA taking money out of your families budget for meaningless imagined diseases ... and DNA tests ... This 5 panel test is a money grab by everyone involved from your vet all the way to the labs and AQHA ... I am definitely putting in a rule change form to AQHA and APHA for all horses in Colorado and Washington to have drug tests run for medical marijuana exposure or better yet make marijuana legal to be used as a pain and mood / brain changer for all horses in the USA...
Where do you get that Herda is made up? Not to mention the others but Herda can be seen with the eye, not just symptoms. Some of the best bred cutting QH stallions in the industry carry this and obviously so do the mares. Until you see the torn skin and loose flappy skin/scars, what you are babbling just sounds ignorant. The one thing they all have in common is multiple traces to King. Do some research before you spew nonsense. |
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 Dog Resuce Agent
Posts: 3459
Location: southeast Texas | Barrel horse USA, become educated about these diseases. They are real life. Not some made up money maker.
Ask this lady, Annemarea, about her real life PSSM horse
http://barrelhorseworld.com/horsedetail.asp?ID=205159
Edited by roxieannie 2014-02-13 8:03 AM
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-02-13 2:54 AM Keep in mind AQHA, USC AT DAVIS and Minnesota are the HORSEMAN'S IRS.... they can invent more trash to tax you on than the real IRS ... by way of additional and always increasing fees .... THEY NEVER GET ENOUGH!! I can't understand why anyone would support the 5 panel tests when there are NO realistic horse numbers presented in the reports ..... I almost puked when they said one went all the way back to King P234 ..... another one showed death rate of foals to be more than the death rate of all quarter horses combined ... Another one said a horse would die if temperature was more than 104F ... of course they used 40C in the report since most americans are dumb on how to convert ... C to F .. and this is if they are going to be sedated with those air temperatures present or you could cool them down with water or fans .... duhhhh .... Ask anyone from Arizona why all of their horses are not dead when even nighttime temps stay above 95F with day time >115F .... Of course everyone has seen the one photograph of a bad case of sun/rain scald on a Mississippi or Louisiana horse provided by the dimwit that invented the HERDA DNA nonsense ... and again it traces back to KING P234 THRU POCO BUENO .... PSSM is another fad disease that vets and drug makers are making a mint off of ... instead of telling horse owner to get their horses in shape before they go run the HXXX out of them ... HYPP was created by overdosing Impressive with steroids and the trainers and owners that did it are all in the AQHA HALL OF FAME ... please note that within 4-5 generations or 10 years the occurrence of HYPP is not an issue .... even with the APHA continuing to breed the supposed carriers .... I dare any of you to show pictures and pedigrees of horses that YOU HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN OR OWNED with any of the above .... What you need to be doing is getting rid of all of your barn and house cats that are the principal carriers of EPM ... NOT THE POSSUM ... who carries an entirely different strain that does not affect horses or other livestock ... And on the other hand ... be working on getting rid of the politicians that are embedded in AQHA taking money out of your families budget for meaningless imagined diseases ... and DNA tests ... This 5 panel test is a money grab by everyone involved from your vet all the way to the labs and AQHA ... I am definitely putting in a rule change form to AQHA and APHA for all horses in Colorado and Washington to have drug tests run for medical marijuana exposure or better yet make marijuana legal to be used as a pain and mood / brain changer for all horses in the USA...
you have no clue do you.
.raccoons, cats, armadillos, skunks, and sea otters have been shown to be intermediate hosts. The opossum is the definitive host of the disease. Horses most commonly contract EPM from grazing or watering in areas where an opossum has recently defecated.
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Addicted to Baseball
Location: Where the stars at night are big and bright, TX | ....HYPP was created by overdosing Impressive with steroids and the trainers and owners that did it are all in the AQHA HALL OF FAME ... please note that within 4-5 generations or 10 years the occurrence of HYPP is not an issue .... even with the APHA continuing to breed the supposed carriers ....
I dare any of you to show pictures and pedigrees of horses that YOU HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN OR OWNED with any of the above ....
Here you go: In 2005 my horse Tilt The Kilt dropped dead where he stood at 3 years of age from HYPP. Impressive is 5 generations back. HYPP doesn't dilute.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/tilt+the+kilt
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-02-13 1:54 Of course everyone has seen the one photograph of a bad case of sun/rain scald on a Mississippi or Louisiana horse provided by the dimwit that invented the HERDA DNA nonsense ... and again it traces back to KING P234 THRU POCO BUENO
What you need to be doing is getting rid of all of your barn and house cats that are the principal carriers of EPM ... NOT THE POSSUM ... who carries an entirely different strain that does not affect horses or other livestock ... . I rarely EVER post on these types of threads but I just have to ask you ....DO YOU SMOKE DOPE????
Your dissertation was filled with so much mis-information and stupidity that I find myself having address a couple of issues.........
ONE: HERDA is NOT a made-up disease...I have personally seen a horse (that had to be put down) who had this disease and yes, it was a fourth generation Poco Bueno and NO>>>>It was NOT rain scald..........Have YOU ever actually seen a horse diagnosed with HERDA???? "Rain rot" certainly does NOT make the skin pull away from the underlying muscles in large sections.....and you are an idiot if you think it does......
TWO: Cats CAN be an "intermediate" host of EPM....they CAN carry the disease but can NOT reproduce the protozia. They CAN spread the disease to oppossum's (through the ingestion of a cat)...ONLY opposum's pass the protozoia on to the horse through their feces in feed or water.......
Edited by NJJ 2014-02-13 1:58 PM
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 Roan Wonder
Location: SW MO | All breeding stallions have to be tested this year before their foals born next spring can be registered |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 305
| Barrel horse USA_ I have no experience with the 5 panel testing. But your comments on HYPP concern me. I agree it is a man made problem. But I have a friend that raises top bred halter horses that are HYPP N/P. Her horses do have issues and problem from the HYPP. Now I don't agree with breeding N/P horses at all but she chooses too, and until AQHA changes it policy things will not change there. So your comment that 4-5 generations later show no problems is not exactly true. Your research has some holes in it. JMO |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 504
Location: Illinois | BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-02-13 1:54 AM Keep in mind AQHA, USC AT DAVIS and Minnesota are the HORSEMAN'S IRS.... they can invent more trash to tax you on than the real IRS ... by way of additional and always increasing fees .... THEY NEVER GET ENOUGH!! I can't understand why anyone would support the 5 panel tests when there are NO realistic horse numbers presented in the reports ..... I almost puked when they said one went all the way back to King P234 ..... another one showed death rate of foals to be more than the death rate of all quarter horses combined ... Another one said a horse would die if temperature was more than 104F ... of course they used 40C in the report since most americans are dumb on how to convert ... C to F .. and this is if they are going to be sedated with those air temperatures present or you could cool them down with water or fans .... duhhhh .... Ask anyone from Arizona why all of their horses are not dead when even nighttime temps stay above 95F with day time >115F .... Of course everyone has seen the one photograph of a bad case of sun/rain scald on a Mississippi or Louisiana horse provided by the dimwit that invented the HERDA DNA nonsense ... and again it traces back to KING P234 THRU POCO BUENO .... PSSM is another fad disease that vets and drug makers are making a mint off of ... instead of telling horse owner to get their horses in shape before they go run the HXXX out of them ... HYPP was created by overdosing Impressive with steroids and the trainers and owners that did it are all in the AQHA HALL OF FAME ... please note that within 4-5 generations or 10 years the occurrence of HYPP is not an issue .... even with the APHA continuing to breed the supposed carriers .... I dare any of you to show pictures and pedigrees of horses that YOU HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN OR OWNED with any of the above .... What you need to be doing is getting rid of all of your barn and house cats that are the principal carriers of EPM ... NOT THE POSSUM ... who carries an entirely different strain that does not affect horses or other livestock ... And on the other hand ... be working on getting rid of the politicians that are embedded in AQHA taking money out of your families budget for meaningless imagined diseases ... and DNA tests ... This 5 panel test is a money grab by everyone involved from your vet all the way to the labs and AQHA ... I am definitely putting in a rule change form to AQHA and APHA for all horses in Colorado and Washington to have drug tests run for medical marijuana exposure or better yet make marijuana legal to be used as a pain and mood / brain changer for all horses in the USA...
I work in cattle/swine genetics and have actually done quite a bit of work in cattle and sheep genetic defects and currently have about a dozen tests out there being used worldwide. The PhD student that worked on GBE from Minnesota spent time in my lab while she was trying to find the mutation, so I have seen this first hand. These things are quite real and not "imagined". HYPP was created by steroids? That's actually a new one I hadn't heard that before. I personally know one of the authors on the HERDA paper, have done some work with him on a sheep defect. Nice guy, good scientist. I'd be happy to send you a copy of the actual paper if you'd like to read it, or any of the papers, I have access to quite a few.
My only comment would be more education for breeders. I think genetics are not very well understood by a lot of people. I've had guys call in and are worried that their carrier bull is going to infect their clean cows with his genetic defect by breeding them, sometimes these things just skip generations, and just because the original animal is a carrier the clone might not be.... I do think that AQHA should probably list animal clean by pedigree, provided they are parentally verified and both parents are genotyped free, so you don't have to test for everything when it's not necessary. |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | We have a HERDA horse in the anatomy lab. it's real. LOL. |
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