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 Extreme Veteran
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Location: CentralTexas | How do you go about getting a mare tested for what color she throws? I know that they can do it with studs, but I haven't heard about mares. I'm curious. | |
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  The Color Specialist
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Location: Washington. (The DRY side.) | What color is she? And what colors are her sire and dam? You can have them tested by U C Davis. If you google UC Davis vet generics lab you will find the info and cost there. | |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: CentralTexas | She's sorrel. Her sire was sorrel and her momma was bay | |
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 Expert
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Location: Royal J Performance Horses, AZ | then her genetic code is ee (meaning no black gene) and because her dam was a bay she could carry the Agouti gene, Which is only expressed when a horse has a black gene. Hence being a bay. When a horse is Ee or EE (EE is homozygous black, or only throws black based foals) and also has Aa or AA they have an agouti gene and the black is limited to their mane, tail, legs, and face.
Your mares genetic code is most likely ee and either aa ( no agouti) Aa (heterozygous agouti) or AA (homozygous agouti) | |
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The Color Specialist
Posts: 7530
Location: Washington. (The DRY side.) | Since she is red, if it were me, I wouldn't waste the money to find out her agouti status. SHE can only pass on the red gene. All having her tested would tell you is if she has the ability to produce a black foal or not. If she is AA for agouti, she can NOT have a black foal. If she is Aa or aa she could. (Depending on the generics of the stallion she is bred to.) (When I say a "black" foal, that means black, grulla, smokey black, true blue roan ect...) | |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: CentralTexas | Ok so far everything makes sense so thank you! I bred her to a palomino and got a palomino, then i bred her to a buckskin and got a bay. This year i bred to a chocolate palomino with chrome, so what's the color, in y'all opinion? And I'm breeding to Slick by Design this year, so is there a chance the baby could be black? | |
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Location: In The Land of Cotton | Sorry to hijack - Fancie, so if my mare is a bay - her dam was sorrel/chestnut and her sire was a bay and the sire of new baby (not born) is brown and his sire is a bay - and his dam was what brown, color could I expect foal to be? | |
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 You get what you give
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Location: Texas | hannavashays - 2014-02-19 11:28 AM
Ok so far everything makes sense so thank you! I bred her to a palomino and got a palomino, then i bred her to a buckskin and got a bay. This year i bred to a chocolate palomino with chrome, so what's the color, in y'all opinion? And I'm breeding to Slick by Design this year, so is there a chance the baby could be black?
you have a chance of bay, black, or sorrel when breeding to slick by design without knowing the agouti status of your mare!
if your mare is AA, she cannot produce a black foal even if bred to a black. if she's Aa or aa she can. | |
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Expert
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Location: Royal J Performance Horses, AZ | 3canstorun - 2014-02-19 10:36 AM
Sorry to hijack -  Fancie, so if my mare is a bay - her dam was sorrel/chestnut and her sire was a bay and the sire of new baby (not born) is brown and his sire is a bay - and his dam was what brown, color could I expect foal to be?Â
If I understand you correctly you mares sire was bay, and the Mares dam was sorrel. That means your mare is AT LEAST EeAa. She could potentially be EeAA from the dam.
Now your mare is in foal to a brown(Bay), that cross Can produce a Black, Bay(brown), or even a sorrel. Brown horses have the same genetics as a bay does, from what i know we have still not determined why some horses come out more black and then some come out like the typical bays with obvious black points and a mostly red body.
Your 3 color possibilities i listed above are all dependent on the sire. He very well could be Homozygous black(EE) in which case your foal will only come out with a black Base, meaning you could get a Bay(brown), or black. | |
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Location: In The Land of Cotton | Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2014-02-19 1:53 PM 3canstorun - 2014-02-19 10:36 AM Sorry to hijack - Fancie, so if my mare is a bay - her dam was sorrel/chestnut and her sire was a bay and the sire of new baby (not born) is brown and his sire is a bay - and his dam was what brown, color could I expect foal to be? If I understand you correctly you mares sire was bay, and the Mares dam was sorrel. That means your mare is AT LEAST EeAa. She could potentially be EeAA from the dam. Now your mare is in foal to a brown (Bay ), that cross Can produce a Black, Bay (brown ), or even a sorrel. Brown horses have the same genetics as a bay does, from what i know we have still not determined why some horses come out more black and then some come out like the typical bays with obvious black points and a mostly red body. Your 3 color possibilities i listed above are all dependent on the sire. He very well could be Homozygous black (EE ) in which case your foal will only come out with a black Base, meaning you could get a Bay (brown ), or black.
Thank you so much. I was thinking bay, but the AAee etc, confuses me. The "baby's daddy", sire is a bay also and his sire is a chestnut. This mare has produced a sorrel when bred to a sorrel, a bay when bred to a sorrel. And a sorrel when bred to a chestnut. I know it will be a boy or girl, it is always the color that I am excited about.
I hate waiting.................. | |
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Location: Royal J Performance Horses, AZ | 3canstorun - 2014-02-19 12:07 PM
Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2014-02-19 1:53 PM 3canstorun - 2014-02-19 10:36 AM Sorry to hijack -  Fancie, so if my mare is a bay - her dam was sorrel/chestnut and her sire was a bay and the sire of new baby (not born) is brown and his sire is a bay - and his dam was what brown, color could I expect foal to be? If I understand you correctly you mares sire was bay, and the Mares dam was sorrel. That means your mare is AT LEAST EeAa. She could potentially be EeAA from the dam. Now your mare is in foal to a brown (Bay ), that cross Can produce a Black, Bay (brown ), or even a sorrel. Brown horses have the same genetics as a bay does, from what i know we have still not determined why some horses come out more black and then some come out like the typical bays with obvious black points and a mostly red body. Your 3 color possibilities i listed above are all dependent on the sire. He very well could be Homozygous black (EE ) in which case your foal will only come out with a black Base, meaning you could get a Bay (brown ), or black.
I hate waiting..................
Tell me about it! I have this bay overo mare in my picture her bred to a black QH son of DFP
and then i have my black and white tobiano mare( who i suspect is actually a brown(bay) bred to a palomino son of Firewater flit, so we have chance for a buckskin, even if it is small. Thats why i enjoy paints so much when it comes to foaling, the coat pattern and the color. Both of these paints are bred for barrel prospects and i know both of the stallions personally so i'm quite excited for both! | |
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Location: Royal J Performance Horses, AZ | 3canstorun - 2014-02-19 12:07 PM
Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2014-02-19 1:53 PM 3canstorun - 2014-02-19 10:36 AM Sorry to hijack -  Fancie, so if my mare is a bay - her dam was sorrel/chestnut and her sire was a bay and the sire of new baby (not born) is brown and his sire is a bay - and his dam was what brown, color could I expect foal to be? If I understand you correctly you mares sire was bay, and the Mares dam was sorrel. That means your mare is AT LEAST EeAa. She could potentially be EeAA from the dam. Now your mare is in foal to a brown (Bay ), that cross Can produce a Black, Bay (brown ), or even a sorrel. Brown horses have the same genetics as a bay does, from what i know we have still not determined why some horses come out more black and then some come out like the typical bays with obvious black points and a mostly red body. Your 3 color possibilities i listed above are all dependent on the sire. He very well could be Homozygous black (EE ) in which case your foal will only come out with a black Base, meaning you could get a Bay (brown ), or black.
I hate waiting..................
ALSO a sorrel and a chestnut are the same thing (genetically speaking any way) they are both ee (so no black gene what so ever) To me a sorrel is a horse with a red mane and tail. and chestnut is a darker red with a flaxen mane and tail. but people argue that all the time. POINT being there is no genetic difference, so why should it matter anyway. | |
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Location: Gainesville, TX | Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2014-02-19 12:53 PM 3canstorun - 2014-02-19 10:36 AM Sorry to hijack - Fancie, so if my mare is a bay - her dam was sorrel/chestnut and her sire was a bay and the sire of new baby (not born) is brown and his sire is a bay - and his dam was what brown, color could I expect foal to be? If I understand you correctly you mares sire was bay, and the Mares dam was sorrel. That means your mare is AT LEAST EeAa. She could potentially be EeAA from the dam. Now your mare is in foal to a brown (Bay ), that cross Can produce a Black, Bay (brown ), or even a sorrel. Brown horses have the same genetics as a bay does, from what i know we have still not determined why some horses come out more black and then some come out like the typical bays with obvious black points and a mostly red body. Your 3 color possibilities i listed above are all dependent on the sire. He very well could be Homozygous black (EE ) in which case your foal will only come out with a black Base, meaning you could get a Bay (brown ), or black.
Brown horses do not not necessarily have the same genetics as bays. They can also be smoky blacks. I have two some might call brown, but they are genetically smoky blacks. | |
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Location: Royal J Performance Horses, AZ | oija - 2014-02-19 12:50 PM
Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2014-02-19 12:53 PM 3canstorun - 2014-02-19 10:36 AM Sorry to hijack -  Fancie, so if my mare is a bay - her dam was sorrel/chestnut and her sire was a bay and the sire of new baby (not born) is brown and his sire is a bay - and his dam was what brown, color could I expect foal to be? If I understand you correctly you mares sire was bay, and the Mares dam was sorrel. That means your mare is AT LEAST EeAa. She could potentially be EeAA from the dam. Now your mare is in foal to a brown (Bay ), that cross Can produce a Black, Bay (brown ), or even a sorrel. Brown horses have the same genetics as a bay does, from what i know we have still not determined why some horses come out more black and then some come out like the typical bays with obvious black points and a mostly red body. Your 3 color possibilities i listed above are all dependent on the sire. He very well could be Homozygous black (EE ) in which case your foal will only come out with a black Base, meaning you could get a Bay (brown ), or black.
Thats not possible.... Because if a horse is a TRUE BROWN meaning AT LEAST Ee Aa and they have a Dilute gene CRcr.
Then they would be a buckskin.
A horse that is a TRUE smokey black is AT LEAST Ee Crcr OR can be EECRCR or EECrcr, etc Meaning no agouti gene. and SOMETIMES their black is not quite black, it appears "bleached" for lack of a better term. But in order for a horse to be a smokey black they have to have parents that carried or showed the cream Gene, IF any of their heritage does not then they cannot be smokey blacks. | |
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Location: Gainesville, TX | Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2014-02-19 1:56 PM oija - 2014-02-19 12:50 PM Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2014-02-19 12:53 PM 3canstorun - 2014-02-19 10:36 AM Sorry to hijack - Fancie, so if my mare is a bay - her dam was sorrel/chestnut and her sire was a bay and the sire of new baby (not born) is brown and his sire is a bay - and his dam was what brown, color could I expect foal to be? If I understand you correctly you mares sire was bay, and the Mares dam was sorrel. That means your mare is AT LEAST EeAa. She could potentially be EeAA from the dam. Now your mare is in foal to a brown (Bay ), that cross Can produce a Black, Bay (brown ), or even a sorrel. Brown horses have the same genetics as a bay does, from what i know we have still not determined why some horses come out more black and then some come out like the typical bays with obvious black points and a mostly red body. Your 3 color possibilities i listed above are all dependent on the sire. He very well could be Homozygous black (EE ) in which case your foal will only come out with a black Base, meaning you could get a Bay (brown ), or black. Thats not possible.... Because if a horse is a TRUE BROWN meaning AT LEAST Ee Aa and they have a Dilute gene CRcr. Then they would be a buckskin. A horse that is a TRUE smokey black is AT LEAST Ee Crcr OR can be EECRCR or EECrcr, etc Meaning no agouti gene. and SOMETIMES their black is not quite black, it appears "bleached" for lack of a better term. But in order for a horse to be a smokey black they have to have parents that carried or showed the cream Gene, IF any of their heritage does not then they cannot be smokey blacks.
ETA: Finally found the picture of my girl. She's smoky black, homozygous EECRcr. The light areas are burnt hair as you say (evidence of her creme gene). AQHA would call her brown. What I'm basically saying is there is not such thing as a 'true brown' because too many genetic possibilities are called by that name including horses with the sooty gene and/or (after I looked it up again) the extension allele At for seal brown bays.
Edited by oija 2014-02-19 3:01 PM
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Location: Royal J Performance Horses, AZ | oija - 2014-02-19 1:32 PM
Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2014-02-19 1:56 PM oija - 2014-02-19 12:50 PM Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2014-02-19 12:53 PM 3canstorun - 2014-02-19 10:36 AM Sorry to hijack -  Fancie, so if my mare is a bay - her dam was sorrel/chestnut and her sire was a bay and the sire of new baby (not born) is brown and his sire is a bay - and his dam was what brown, color could I expect foal to be? If I understand you correctly you mares sire was bay, and the Mares dam was sorrel. That means your mare is AT LEAST EeAa. She could potentially be EeAA from the dam. Now your mare is in foal to a brown (Bay ), that cross Can produce a Black, Bay (brown ), or even a sorrel. Brown horses have the same genetics as a bay does, from what i know we have still not determined why some horses come out more black and then some come out like the typical bays with obvious black points and a mostly red body. Your 3 color possibilities i listed above are all dependent on the sire. He very well could be Homozygous black (EE ) in which case your foal will only come out with a black Base, meaning you could get a Bay (brown ), or black. Thats not possible.... Because if a horse is a TRUE BROWN meaning AT LEAST Ee Aa and they have a Dilute gene CRcr. Then they would be a buckskin. A horse that is a TRUE smokey black is AT LEAST Ee Crcr OR can be EECRCR or EECrcr, etc Meaning no agouti gene. and SOMETIMES their black is not quite black, it appears "bleached" for lack of a better term. But in order for a horse to be a smokey black they have to have parents that carried or showed the cream Gene, IF any of their heritage does not then they cannot be smokey blacks. Ah, but to look at a horse that the AQHA and most breed organizations classify as a Brown (since genetically there is not really such a thing ), they may genetically be either a Smoky Black or dark Bay. The creme gene over the black does give a 'burnt hair' appearance or the very dark bay will still have red undertones. Both can, to the eye, produce what is classified by breed organizations as brown though genetically they are quite different. So a creme gene on black, ie a smoky black, can look like a brown. A dark bay, or agouti gene, can look like a brown. Brown is a breed color classification not a genetic one. Though they are looking at an interesting modifying gene (like the creme gene ) that makes the agouti horses so very dark and may produce the darker agouti horses that appear 'brown.' The AQHA definition for brown is: Body color brown or black with light areas around muzzle, eyes, flank, and inside lower legs; mane, tail, and points black. This is a genetic smoky black that fits that breed definition ETA: Finally found the picture of my girl. She's smoky black, homozygous EECRcr. The light areas are burnt hair as you say (evidence of her creme gene ). AQHA would call her brown. What I'm basically saying is there is not such thing as a 'true brown' because too many genetic possibilities are called by that name including horses with the sooty gene and/or (after I looked it up again ) the extension allele At for seal brown bays.
ahhh OK i think i see what you mean. and like i said before Brown describes the color of a horse but not it's genetic code. Is that what you are pointing out?
I was merely making the fact that Brown is typically a Bay (genetically) just has a mostly black body. and as i said some replies ago it has to do with a gene that they are still researching. I believe you called it the AT allele.
As you pointed out the TRUE (genetic) smokey blacks, can be misleading hence why so many folks call them brown.
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