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Miss Not Exciting
Posts: 3279
   
Location: Ft Worth TX | Ok so, I have a friend going through an interesting situation. Basically she was given a gelding 2 YEARS AGO on a verbal agreement that if she ever did not want the horse it would go back to them. HOWEVER the former owner has decided they do not like where this horse is boarded and they are going to pick him up without current owners consent and take him to their property. This is a grade horse, nothing written up on paper. The current owner has fed the horse for 2 years. The most current coggins (which is still current) is in current owners name. By law can they just decide to pick up this horse because they don't like where he's boarded?
Last I had heard most court rulings on grade horse ownership- it's whoever has the most current coggins listed as owner... Also I know in tx after feeding a horse 30-60 (depends on county) laws of abandonment kick in also. |
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 Forever Young
Posts: 6768
 
Location: relocated to Texas | How could they pick up the horse at a boarding facility without the owners of that facility knowing about it? I would think if you were paying to board your horse and you let someone come on the property and take that horse, that as the owners of the boarding facility you would be liable for that.
IMO this is a case for civil court and with nothing written down, it would come down to the evidence presented and who the judge believes as far as who owns the horse at this point. In any case, I wouldn't think that the previous owners could just come on someone's property and legally take the horse. Unless there is more to the story, they have no proof that they own this horse, no proof of any verbal agreement between them and the current owner. |
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 Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | it would be incredibly stupid to not just let the horse go.......in fact, it would probably be a favor to be rid of it.... |
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 Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
Location: That part of Texas | I think your friend is probably going to spend a lot of time and money fighting for a horse that most courts are going to consider not to be hers.
Was she given permission to have and care for the horse? Yes and that's pretty much all the current coggins is going to prove.
Was she allowed to have the horse with certain reservations? Yes and most courts are probably going to recognize that the owners of the horse are wanting it back and that your friend knew her right to possession was always secondary to theirs.
This horse wasn't abandoned -- it was basically loaned with certain reservations. It doesn't matter that she has fed and housed the horse for two years. That alone doesn't negate that she doesn't have ownership rights superior to the people who let her have the horse. The fact that the true owners are still keeping track of the horse, his whereabouts and care shows that they never intended this to be an exchange of ownership rights and are acting in the horse's best interests still as owners.
I would advise your friend to take the horse back, thank them for the loan for the 2 years and invest in a horse that is 100% fully hers to own and make decisions for. |
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 Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | Red Raider - 2014-02-19 2:01 PM
I think your friend is probably going to spend a lot of time and money fighting for a horse that most courts are going to consider not to be hers.
Was she given permission to have and care for the horse? Yes and that's pretty much all the current coggins is going to prove.
Was she allowed to have the horse with certain reservations? Yes and most courts are probably going to recognize that the owners of the horse are wanting it back and that your friend knew her right to possession was always secondary to theirs.
This horse wasn't abandoned -- it was basically loaned with certain reservations. It doesn't matter that she has fed and housed the horse for two years. That alone doesn't negate that she doesn't have ownership rights superior to the people who let her have the horse. The fact that the true owners are still keeping track of the horse, his whereabouts and care shows that they never intended this to be an exchange of ownership rights and are acting in the horse's best interests still as owners.
I would advise your friend to take the horse back, thank them for the loan for the 2 years and invest in a horse that is 100% fully hers to own and make decisions for.
Great advice here, just tell your friend to let them have the horse and move on. IMO, coggins doesn't mean anything...I could go steal someone's horse, take it to the vet and get coggins, but that doesn't mean I own the horse.
The fact that she cared for the horse for two years is irrelevant. It's a trade off of her getting use of the horse. The original owners were probably waiting for a reason to get the horse back and used the boarding facility as their excuse.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 653
Location: Quinlan, TX | I just posted a similar issue on here a few weeks ago. Basically the same verbal agreement......only difference is that the horse that was given away was sold to me instead of given back to original owners with me not knowing the original agreement. I ended up cutting my loses and giving the horse back. It sucks.....but like others have said your friend just needs to invest in a horse that is 100% hers. |
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 I Am Always Right
Posts: 4264
Location: stray dump capital of the world | They didn't abandon the horse. They lent the horse to your friend for 2 years. You said they had a verbal agreement that if your friend didn't want the horse any longer, they got the horse back. It seems to me that they want the horse back and it should be given back. I was stupid enough to lend my horse out several years ago under the same conditions. The problem in my case is the pos that had mine got upset with him and hauled him to a sale barn. I never saw my horse again. We tried to file charges on the person but were told the horse was "just livestock." We tried to go against the sale barn for taking in and selling stolen property. Again, no luck. Thank you Louisiana for being such a sloth of a state.
This is a very good reason to never lend a horse out. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 911
Location: Durango CO | Look up the brand inspection laws in texas or the livestock laws. It helped me out in a case not long ago. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1182
Location: Do I hear Banjos? | I don't see how the actual Laws matter in this case. If the horse was actually HERS...she would have the right to do as she sees fit to ride, sell etc. But from your statements she has known all along that this is not the case. That the actual owners have always wanted to maintain some control over the horse's fate.
Essentially she has had a free lease on the horse for the past two years. Now...the actual owner of the horse is exercising their right to regain posession. I'm curious what the original owner's objection is to where the horse is now being boarded?
She could offer to purchase the horse now. But it is not hers simply because she has fed/cared for it for two years. If she was under the impression that the horse was given to her outright...well...that just doesn't sound like the case. In the future...a lease contract or gift of a horse should be in writing.
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 My Heeler owns me
Posts: 2855
Location: No place better...East TN!! | I don't see how some are coming up with the idea that the "current owner" only "borrowed" the horse. The OP stated that her friend was given the horse. Now, the OP also stated that the agreement was that if she ever wanted to get rid of the horse that it would go back to the original owners. Her friend isn't wanting to get rid of the horse! The original owners are just going to pick it up because they don't like where it's being boarded. Now that isn't right. I don't care how you look at it.
Giving someone a horse isn't a "free lease" as some of you are saying. IMO, she has every right to be upset & try to keep the horse. You can't go around giving someone something then taking it back because you feel like it. People amaze me  |
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Miss Not Exciting
Posts: 3279
Location: Ft Worth TX | STABALL - 2014-02-20 11:22 AM
I don't see how some are coming up with the idea that the "current owner" only "borrowed" the horse. The OP stated that her friend was given the horse. Now, the OP also stated that the agreement was that if she ever wanted to get rid of the horse that it would go back to the original owners. Her friend isn't wanting to get rid of the horse! The original owners are just going to pick it up because they don't like where it's being boarded. Now that isn't right. I don't care how you look at it.
Giving someone a horse isn't a "free lease" as some of you are saying. IMO, she has every right to be upset & try to keep the horse. You can't go around giving someone something then taking it back because you feel like it. People amaze me
Yes ownership of the horse was given to my friend. The horse is 20 y/o. The ONLY CONDITION to her getting him for free was if she ever didn't want him he went back to them. No lease no free lease no borrowed horse. They had not even contacted her in the past year. The horse was a retired rope horse when she got him. She put weight on him, got him looking good, keeps up on all vet care. He gets hocks and stifles injected. He's not a cheap horse to care for by any means. It was a handshake deal on giving her the free horse. I could understand if it was a free lease or there were other conditions to his sale but as many free horses the ONLY condition was if she did not want him or could not afford him he went back.
And yes he may be 20 this year but its been her best friend for 2 years, and she planned on him dying with her. He's still sound she does playdays, trails, and chases cows on him. He looks like a 10 yo.
Edited by Whoop Z Day Z 2014-02-20 12:41 PM
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | well.....go to court then and let us know how that turns out...... |
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  Witty Enough
Posts: 2954
Location: CTX | STABALL - 2014-02-20 12:22 PM I don't see how some are coming up with the idea that the "current owner" only "borrowed" the horse. The OP stated that her friend was given the horse. Now, the OP also stated that the agreement was that if she ever wanted to get rid of the horse that it would go back to the original owners. Her friend isn't wanting to get rid of the horse! The original owners are just going to pick it up because they don't like where it's being boarded. Now that isn't right. I don't care how you look at it. Giving someone a horse isn't a "free lease" as some of you are saying. IMO, she has every right to be upset & try to keep the horse. You can't go around giving someone something then taking it back because you feel like it. People amaze me
Just how I see it....
ETA: I do hope your friend got a bill of sale when the horse became hers....
Edited by cranky B4 10am 2014-02-20 12:45 PM
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My Heeler owns me
Posts: 2855
Location: No place better...East TN!! | Whoop Z Day Z - 2014-02-20 1:37 PM
STABALL - 2014-02-20 11:22 AM
I don't see how some are coming up with the idea that the "current owner" only "borrowed" the horse. The OP stated that her friend was given the horse. Now, the OP also stated that the agreement was that if she ever wanted to get rid of the horse that it would go back to the original owners. Her friend isn't wanting to get rid of the horse! The original owners are just going to pick it up because they don't like where it's being boarded. Now that isn't right. I don't care how you look at it.
Giving someone a horse isn't a "free lease" as some of you are saying. IMO, she has every right to be upset & try to keep the horse. You can't go around giving someone something then taking it back because you feel like it. People amaze me
Yes ownership of the horse was given to my friend. The horse is 20 y/o. The ONLY CONDITION to her getting him for free was if she ever didn't want him he went back to them. No lease no free lease no borrowed horse. They had not even contacted her in the past year. The horse was a retired rope horse when she got him. She put weight on him, got him looking good, keeps up on all vet care. He gets hocks and stifles injected. He's not a cheap horse to care for by any means. It was a handshake deal on giving her the free horse. I could understand if it was a free lease or there were other conditions to his sale but as many free horses the ONLY condition was if she did not want him or could not afford him he went back.
Which is what I took from your original explanation of the situation. I don't think what the original owners are doing is right. If she is caring for the horse & he is well taken care of then they shouldn't be doing what they are doing.
They gave the horse away & really don't have a say in where he is being boarded. JMO of course  |
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My Heeler owns me
Posts: 2855
Location: No place better...East TN!! | cranky B4 10am - 2014-02-20 1:41 PM
STABALL - 2014-02-20 12:22 PM I don't see how some are coming up with the idea that the "current owner" only "borrowed" the horse. The OP stated that her friend was given the horse. Now, the OP also stated that the agreement was that if she ever wanted to get rid of the horse that it would go back to the original owners. Her friend isn't wanting to get rid of the horse! The original owners are just going to pick it up because they don't like where it's being boarded. Now that isn't right. I don't care how you look at it. Giving someone a horse isn't a "free lease" as some of you are saying. IMO, she has every right to be upset & try to keep the horse. You can't go around giving someone something then taking it back because you feel like it. People amaze me
Just how I see it....
ETA: I do hope your friend got a bill of sale when the horse became hers....
Exactly |
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | I am just going to say that there is probably MORE to this story than the owners just "not liking" the boarding facility. As usual, we are only getting ONE side of the story and "third hand" information, at best........ |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1182
Location: Do I hear Banjos? | Fair enough...but They did want to keep some control over what happens to the horse or they wouldn't have stipulated that they were to get it back if she couldn't keep it.
Why then do they not approve of where it is being boarded? There's more to this story I'm sure.
The take home lesson is that when something of value changes hands...get it in writing...bill of sale, even if for No cost, include stipulations in writing. |
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Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | STABALL - 2014-02-20 12:22 PM
I don't see how some are coming up with the idea that the "current owner" only "borrowed" the horse. The OP stated that her friend was given the horse. Now, the OP also stated that the agreement was that if she ever wanted to get rid of the horse that it would go back to the original owners. Her friend isn't wanting to get rid of the horse! The original owners are just going to pick it up because they don't like where it's being boarded. Now that isn't right. I don't care how you look at it.
Giving someone a horse isn't a "free lease" as some of you are saying. IMO, she has every right to be upset & try to keep the horse. You can't go around giving someone something then taking it back because you feel like it. People amaze me
That honestly was my initial thought as well...that they gave the horse away so can't just come get it whenever they want. However, like NJJ said, there most likely is a lot more to this story that we don't know. That's why I agreed with Red Raider and others who said to just give the horse back...a lot less headache. It's better for her to buy a horse that's 100% hers with zero stipulations.
Edited by Gunner11 2014-02-20 1:21 PM
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My Heeler owns me
Posts: 2855
Location: No place better...East TN!! | Gunner11 - 2014-02-20 2:20 PM
STABALL - 2014-02-20 12:22 PM
I don't see how some are coming up with the idea that the "current owner" only "borrowed" the horse. The OP stated that her friend was given the horse. Now, the OP also stated that the agreement was that if she ever wanted to get rid of the horse that it would go back to the original owners. Her friend isn't wanting to get rid of the horse! The original owners are just going to pick it up because they don't like where it's being boarded. Now that isn't right. I don't care how you look at it.
Giving someone a horse isn't a "free lease" as some of you are saying. IMO, she has every right to be upset & try to keep the horse. You can't go around giving someone something then taking it back because you feel like it. People amaze me
That honestly was my initial thought as well...that they gave the horse away so can't just come get it whenever they want. However, like NJJ said, there most likely is a lot more to this story that we don't know. That's why I agreed with Red Raider and others who said to just give the horse back...a lot less headache. It's better for her to buy a horse that's 100% hers with zero stipulations.
Oh I agree 100% that there's always more to the story lol |
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Veteran
Posts: 146
Location: Louisiana | STABALL - 2014-02-20 12:22 PM I don't see how some are coming up with the idea that the "current owner" only "borrowed" the horse. The OP stated that her friend was given the horse. Now, the OP also stated that the agreement was that if she ever wanted to get rid of the horse that it would go back to the original owners. Her friend isn't wanting to get rid of the horse! The original owners are just going to pick it up because they don't like where it's being boarded. Now that isn't right. I don't care how you look at it. Giving someone a horse isn't a "free lease" as some of you are saying. IMO, she has every right to be upset & try to keep the horse. You can't go around giving someone something then taking it back because you feel like it. People amaze me
I was thinking the same thing.
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