Saddle goes on-the-shoulder or behind-the-shoulder

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Saddle goes on-the-shoulder or behind-the-shoulder Moderators: luluwhit, gotothewhip, cindyt, crossspur, ForumAdmin Jump to page :	Last activity 2014-02-23 7:30 PM 24 replies, 5703 views View previous thread :: View next thread
General Discussion -> Barrel Talk


r_beau Reg. Apr 2010	Posted 2014-02-21 2:23 PM Subject: Saddle goes on-the-shoulder or behind-the-shoulder
Born not Made Posts: 2931 Location: North Dakota	I'm saddle searching for my horse and been doing LOTS of reading. I just found it interesting that Martin Crown C and Caldwell have two completely different opinions. Martin advocates the saddle to sit behind the shoulder, while Caldwell says it should sit on the shoulder. I'm still just as confused about saddle fit now as I was when I started digging into it (or maybe MORE confused) but it's very interesting reading all these things.
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Canchaser1587 Reg. Sep 2007	Posted 2014-02-21 2:26 PM Subject: RE: Saddle goes on-the-shoulder or behind-the-shoulder
Expert Posts: 2385	I'm glad you asked! I would like to hear what other have to say as well.
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LAC Reg. Jan 2008	Posted 2014-02-21 2:41 PM Subject: RE: Saddle goes on-the-shoulder or behind-the-shoulder
	I actually posted the same question on here a while ago and I got many different answers but in a nut shell it depends on the saddle. A caldwell has a flared tree which allows the saddle to sit on top of the horses shoulders and not interfere with them while running. Whereas other saddles sit behind the shoulders. There are too many variations as to what works because all horses are different and each saddle fits them differently. Its just a matter of what works best for you and your horse.
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cheryl makofka Reg. Jan 2011	Posted 2014-02-21 2:49 PM Subject: RE: Saddle goes on-the-shoulder or behind-the-shoulder
The Advice Guru Posts: 6419	If you get the wide crown c saddles it should be behind the shoulder. This is the only saddle designed to be behind the shoulder. The rest of saddles are to be put on the shoulder. It all depends on where the riggin is, most saddles are 1/2-7-8" back where as with the Martin adjustable riggin if you put it as far forward (this is designed especially for behind the shoulder) it measures at 0 back. Hope that makes sense
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WYOTurn-n-Burn Reg. Sep 2004	Posted 2014-02-21 2:58 PM Subject: RE: Saddle goes on-the-shoulder or behind-the-shoulder
The Bling Princess Posts: 3411 Location: North Dakota	cheryl makofka - 2014-02-21 2:49 PM If you get the wide crown c saddles it should be behind the shoulder. This is the only saddle designed to be behind the shoulder. The rest of saddles are to be put on the shoulder. It all depends on where the riggin is, most saddles are 1/2-7-8" back where as with the Martin adjustable riggin if you put it as far forward (this is designed especially for behind the shoulder) it measures at 0 back. Hope that makes sense this makes no sense to me; please explain further:)
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skye Reg. Jul 2004	Posted 2014-02-21 3:04 PM Subject: RE: Saddle goes on-the-shoulder or behind-the-shoulder
Expert Posts: 2121 Location: The Great Northwest	Behind the top of the shoulder...put the saddle on without a breast collar it will rest behind the shoulder in the wither area.
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TheOldGrayMare Reg. Nov 2009	Posted 2014-02-21 3:09 PM Subject: RE: Saddle goes on-the-shoulder or behind-the-shoulder
Expert Posts: 4625 Location: Desert Land	It just depends on how the saddle is made to be adjusted. My caldwells go on the shoulder. My textan that I use on colts goes behind the shoulder. If you put it on the shoulder, it just slides back.
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r_beau Reg. Apr 2010	Posted 2014-02-21 3:12 PM Subject: RE: Saddle goes on-the-shoulder or behind-the-shoulder
Born not Made Posts: 2931 Location: North Dakota	LAC - 2014-02-21 2:41 PM I actually posted the same question on here a while ago and I got many different answers but in a nut shell it depends on the saddle. A caldwell has a flared tree which allows the saddle to sit on top of the horses shoulders and not interfere with them while running. Whereas other saddles sit behind the shoulders. There are too many variations as to what works because all horses are different and each saddle fits them differently. Its just a matter of what works best for you and your horse. I have heard it explained this way before, but I guess I find it interesting that Caldwell says ALL saddles need to sit on the shoulder and they don't clarify anything about a flared tree versus a non-flared tree. I try to scoot my Circle Y back as far as it will stay because I find the dry spots look better when it is back farther, and I don't want to restrict his shoulder movement. (Hence why I am in the market for a new saddle.) The dry spots are still there, they aren't bad, but they bother me. I feel like I could find something that fits him better.
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PaintedPrincess Reg. Aug 2009	Posted 2014-02-21 3:16 PM Subject: RE: Saddle goes on-the-shoulder or behind-the-shoulder
Expert Posts: 3165	i found this interesting when i bought two pads from them.... http://www.saddleright.com/CleaningandSaddling.html " Do you use a breast collar? if so, make sure you're not tying your saddle too far forward. Put the saddle and pad on (over a good thin sweat pad). Most western riders use a GOOD THIN NAVAJO. Leave the breast collar loose and just snug the cinch - pick up and stretch the front legs allowing the saddle to slip back then push him back 4 or 5 steps and walk him back where you started. This allows the shoulders to roll the saddle to the center of gravity - then cinch him up and put on the breast collar. It may feel to far back for you but you will get used to it and he will work better longer. "
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missroselee Reg. Jul 2006	Posted 2014-02-21 5:56 PM Subject: RE: Saddle goes on-the-shoulder or behind-the-shoulder
Damn Yankee Posts: 12390 Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace	r_beau - 2014-02-21 4:12 PM LAC - 2014-02-21 2:41 PM I actually posted the same question on here a while ago and I got many different answers but in a nut shell it depends on the saddle. A caldwell has a flared tree which allows the saddle to sit on top of the horses shoulders and not interfere with them while running. Whereas other saddles sit behind the shoulders. There are too many variations as to what works because all horses are different and each saddle fits them differently. Its just a matter of what works best for you and your horse. I have heard it explained this way before, but I guess I find it interesting that Caldwell says ALL saddles need to sit on the shoulder and they don't clarify anything about a flared tree versus a non-flared tree. I try to scoot my Circle Y back as far as it will stay because I find the dry spots look better when it is back farther, and I don't want to restrict his shoulder movement. (Hence why I am in the market for a new saddle.) The dry spots are still there, they aren't bad, but they bother me. I feel like I could find something that fits him better. Every horse is different. Every tree is different. There is no right or wrong. It all depends on what works for YOUR horse. Caldwell and that style permanently scarred my horse. But obviously that's not the normal scenario. He was that one horse that their theory was bad for. That being said, a Martin theory would be even worse for him. Of course he is that one horse that there isn't a saddle in existence that would fit him.
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cheryl makofka Reg. Jan 2011	Posted 2014-02-21 7:26 PM Subject: RE: Saddle goes on-the-shoulder or behind-the-shoulder
The Advice Guru Posts: 6419	WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2014-02-21 2:58 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-02-21 2:49 PM If you get the wide crown c saddles it should be behind the shoulder. This is the only saddle designed to be behind the shoulder. The rest of saddles are to be put on the shoulder. It all depends on where the riggin is, most saddles are 1/2-7-8" back where as with the Martin adjustable riggin if you put it as far forward (this is designed especially for behind the shoulder) it measures at 0 back. Hope that makes sense this makes no sense to me; please explain further:) The riggin is put on the saddle on where the saddle manufacturer wants the tree to sit on a horse. The riggin is moved back to the 7/8 position or 1/2 inch position so when you cinch your horse up that riggin will be in the correct spot for the cinch to sit. The cinch should be approx 1 hand width behind the leg when the horse is standing square.
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CE's wrapn3 Reg. Jul 2009	Posted 2014-02-21 7:33 PM Subject: RE: Saddle goes on-the-shoulder or behind-the-shoulder
I Want a "MAN" Posts: 3610 Location: MD	missroselee - 2014-02-21 5:56 PM r_beau - 2014-02-21 4:12 PM LAC - 2014-02-21 2:41 PM I actually posted the same question on here a while ago and I got many different answers but in a nut shell it depends on the saddle. A caldwell has a flared tree which allows the saddle to sit on top of the horses shoulders and not interfere with them while running. Whereas other saddles sit behind the shoulders. There are too many variations as to what works because all horses are different and each saddle fits them differently. Its just a matter of what works best for you and your horse. I have heard it explained this way before, but I guess I find it interesting that Caldwell says ALL saddles need to sit on the shoulder and they don't clarify anything about a flared tree versus a non-flared tree. I try to scoot my Circle Y back as far as it will stay because I find the dry spots look better when it is back farther, and I don't want to restrict his shoulder movement. (Hence why I am in the market for a new saddle.) The dry spots are still there, they aren't bad, but they bother me. I feel like I could find something that fits him better. Every horse is different. Every tree is different. There is no right or wrong. It all depends on what works for YOUR horse. Caldwell and that style permanently scarred my horse. But obviously that's not the normal scenario. He was that one horse that their theory was bad for. That being said, a Martin theory would be even worse for him. Of course he is that one horse that there isn't a saddle in existence that would fit him. Why? I vaguely remember he had a bad sore or something?
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hammer_time Reg. Jul 2007	Posted 2014-02-22 3:21 AM Subject: RE: Saddle goes on-the-shoulder or behind-the-shoulder
Money Eating Baggage Owner Posts: 9586 Location: Phoenix	(image.jpg) Attachments ---------------- image.jpg (55KB - 200 downloads)
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ThreeCorners Reg. Nov 2003	Posted 2014-02-22 6:53 AM Subject: RE: Saddle goes on-the-shoulder or behind-the-shoulder
Tried and True Posts: 21185 Location: Where I am happiest	r_beau - 2014-02-21 2:23 PM I'm saddle searching for my horse and been doing LOTS of reading. I just found it interesting that Martin Crown C and Caldwell have two completely different opinions. Martin advocates the saddle to sit behind the shoulder, while Caldwell says it should sit on the shoulder. I'm still just as confused about saddle fit now as I was when I started digging into it (or maybe MORE confused) but it's very interesting reading all these things. The reason they have differing opinions is because they have completely different made saddles! The Martic Crown is made to sit behind the shoulder. So with that saddle you sit it behind the shoulder. The Caldwell is made to sit on the shoulder.So that saddle you set further forward. So with that said, you need to use whatever saddle you have, according to the way it is made to work.
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cheryl makofka Reg. Jan 2011	Posted 2014-02-22 8:34 AM Subject: RE: Saddle goes on-the-shoulder or behind-the-shoulder
The Advice Guru Posts: 6419	hammer_time - 2014-02-22 3:21 AM I don't know why you posted this, but this saddle is sitting on the shoulders, and in the correct spot. It would have been nice to see the entire side view, and sorry I can't post pictures.
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r_beau Reg. Apr 2010	Posted 2014-02-22 2:59 PM Subject: RE: Saddle goes on-the-shoulder or behind-the-shoulder
Born not Made Posts: 2931 Location: North Dakota	ThreeCorners - 2014-02-22 6:53 AM r_beau - 2014-02-21 2:23 PM I'm saddle searching for my horse and been doing LOTS of reading. I just found it interesting that Martin Crown C and Caldwell have two completely different opinions. Martin advocates the saddle to sit behind the shoulder, while Caldwell says it should sit on the shoulder. I'm still just as confused about saddle fit now as I was when I started digging into it (or maybe MORE confused) but it's very interesting reading all these things. The reason they have differing opinions is because they have completely different made saddles! The Martic Crown is made to sit behind the shoulder. So with that saddle you sit it behind the shoulder. The Caldwell is made to sit on the shoulder.So that saddle you set further forward. So with that said, you need to use whatever saddle you have, according to the way it is made to work. That's my point. :-). The two completely different theories. One company thinks the saddle should sit on the shoulder so they make their saddle that way. Another company thinks the saddle should sit behind the shoulder, and this build it that way.
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hammer_time Reg. Jul 2007	Posted 2014-02-22 4:49 PM Subject: RE: Saddle goes on-the-shoulder or behind-the-shoulder
Money Eating Baggage Owner Posts: 9586 Location: Phoenix	cheryl makofka - 2014-02-22 6:34 AM hammer_time - 2014-02-22 3:21 AM I don't know why you posted this, but this saddle is sitting on the shoulders, and in the correct spot. It would have been nice to see the entire side view, and sorry I can't post pictures. Well last night I wrote some stuff but apparently I didn't submit. I know that's a terrible angle...I feel like this is half way in between being on the shoulders and being behind the shoulders. When I think "on the shoulders" I visualize on top of the actual wither which is more on the mane area which obviously seems way too far forward. I'll walk my horse and back him up and then since up where the saddle settles. Edited by hammer_time 2014-02-22 5:20 PM
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cheryl makofka Reg. Jan 2011	Posted 2014-02-22 5:35 PM Subject: RE: Saddle goes on-the-shoulder or behind-the-shoulder
The Advice Guru Posts: 6419	hammer_time - 2014-02-22 4:49 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-02-22 6:34 AM hammer_time - 2014-02-22 3:21 AM I don't know why you posted this, but this saddle is sitting on the shoulders, and in the correct spot. It would have been nice to see the entire side view, and sorry I can't post pictures. Well last night I wrote some stuff but apparently I didn't submit. I know that's a terrible angle...I feel like this is half way in between being on the shoulders and being behind the shoulders. When I think "on the shoulders" I visualize on top of the actual wither which is more on the mane area which obviously seems way too far forward. I'll walk my horse and back him up and then since up where the saddle settles. To me that is still on the shoulder, where Martin bars don't go onto the shoulders if set properly, this is what Brian and Tracy taught me anyway. With the Martin, they want you to palpate where the scapula ends and that is where you want your saddle to fit. As to the op, neither one is correct, horses were never designed to carry weight. Each one has its own theory, and which ever saddle you choose on buying the best thing you can do is ask the manufacturer where the saddle is to be placed.
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missroselee Reg. Jul 2006	Posted 2014-02-23 1:37 PM Subject: RE: Saddle goes on-the-shoulder or behind-the-shoulder
Damn Yankee Posts: 12390 Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace	CE's wrapn3 - 2014-02-21 8:33 PM missroselee - 2014-02-21 5:56 PM r_beau - 2014-02-21 4:12 PM LAC - 2014-02-21 2:41 PM I actually posted the same question on here a while ago and I got many different answers but in a nut shell it depends on the saddle. A caldwell has a flared tree which allows the saddle to sit on top of the horses shoulders and not interfere with them while running. Whereas other saddles sit behind the shoulders. There are too many variations as to what works because all horses are different and each saddle fits them differently. Its just a matter of what works best for you and your horse. I have heard it explained this way before, but I guess I find it interesting that Caldwell says ALL saddles need to sit on the shoulder and they don't clarify anything about a flared tree versus a non-flared tree. I try to scoot my Circle Y back as far as it will stay because I find the dry spots look better when it is back farther, and I don't want to restrict his shoulder movement. (Hence why I am in the market for a new saddle.) The dry spots are still there, they aren't bad, but they bother me. I feel like I could find something that fits him better. Every horse is different. Every tree is different. There is no right or wrong. It all depends on what works for YOUR horse. Caldwell and that style permanently scarred my horse. But obviously that's not the normal scenario. He was that one horse that their theory was bad for. That being said, a Martin theory would be even worse for him. Of course he is that one horse that there isn't a saddle in existence that would fit him. Why? I vaguely remember he had a bad sore or something? Why what? Why the sore or why the martin is worse? Not sure which one you want to know. We tried the martin on him and never even cinched it up. It was the worst fitting saddle for HIM. But there are plenty of other horses that they fit awesome.
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cheryl makofka Reg. Jan 2011	Posted 2014-02-23 1:55 PM Subject: RE: Saddle goes on-the-shoulder or behind-the-shoulder
The Advice Guru Posts: 6419	missroselee - 2014-02-23 1:37 PM CE's wrapn3 - 2014-02-21 8:33 PM missroselee - 2014-02-21 5:56 PM r_beau - 2014-02-21 4:12 PM LAC - 2014-02-21 2:41 PM I actually posted the same question on here a while ago and I got many different answers but in a nut shell it depends on the saddle. A caldwell has a flared tree which allows the saddle to sit on top of the horses shoulders and not interfere with them while running. Whereas other saddles sit behind the shoulders. There are too many variations as to what works because all horses are different and each saddle fits them differently. Its just a matter of what works best for you and your horse. I have heard it explained this way before, but I guess I find it interesting that Caldwell says ALL saddles need to sit on the shoulder and they don't clarify anything about a flared tree versus a non-flared tree. I try to scoot my Circle Y back as far as it will stay because I find the dry spots look better when it is back farther, and I don't want to restrict his shoulder movement. (Hence why I am in the market for a new saddle.) The dry spots are still there, they aren't bad, but they bother me. I feel like I could find something that fits him better. Every horse is different. Every tree is different. There is no right or wrong. It all depends on what works for YOUR horse. Caldwell and that style permanently scarred my horse. But obviously that's not the normal scenario. He was that one horse that their theory was bad for. That being said, a Martin theory would be even worse for him. Of course he is that one horse that there isn't a saddle in existence that would fit him. Why? I vaguely remember he had a bad sore or something? Why what? Why the sore or why the martin is worse? Not sure which one you want to know. We tried the martin on him and never even cinched it up. It was the worst fitting saddle for HIM. But there are plenty of other horses that they fit awesome. Just curious what size of gullet did you try or the martin's, just inquiring, as I know their stock models don't fit any of my horses, the 10 I have it fitting my 4 year old and the 11 is fitting my five year old, and these horses aren't overly wide, they do have nice shoulders, and rounder backs.
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