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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 521
Location: Lone Star State | I could use some help. My now 5-yr-old gelding will not take and hold his right lead. He does fine with the left lead. It is very hard for me to get him to depart into a lope on the right lead...he just doesn't. I have tried to push him into it by slightly tipping his nose left and placing my left foot on him pushing him into right lead/circle and another method. When he begins in the wrong lead (again, on left lead going right circle), sometimes stop him and try again but not havin much luck there. What usually happens is we lope a circle or two in wrong lead and he'll do a flying lead change into right. When he switches to right lead, it's either a bolted, uncollected fast gallop or if it's collected, he will not stay in it long. I have attached a video of us loping a full right circle on left lead and then doing an awkward lead change.
http://youtu.be/Tf1dSzQHNH0
History on the horse - he's now a 5-year-old. He was started as a 3-year-old but took it slow. Hasn't been consistently worked with until last fall as a 4-yr-old. Had his teeth floated 10 months ago. Chiro adjustment 3 months ago and the Chiro couldn't find anything to cause this. We has really sore in sternum area and out all over. A week later he was extremely touchy more so than any other horse I've ever had adjusted. Still having same problem at that point so them determined my saddle was hurting shoulders and bought a new one a month ago. I'm just at a loss. I know a vet visit is next in line. Looking at the video, does anyone have any input or expertise? I want to think it's due to just a young horse who is one side dominant and needs more muscle tone to keep collection. But, I'm afraid this is more a pain issue. Helpful information would be greatly appreciated. |
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
  
| It's kind of hard to tell, but it looks like when he switched in the front he never switched in the back, so he was crossfiring. I watched it a couple of times and was trying to keep an eye on the back end, and I think that's what I saw.
How does he do with moving his hip over? I have had luck with tipping the nose to the inside, but you need to be able to move the hip in, otherwise when the nose goes in the hip is going to go out, making him pick up the incorrect lead. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I didn't watch the video but ulcers come to mind. I would treat him for 30 days, but you would see improvement in a week.
If it is not ulcers, I would get chiro and massage to come out and work on him as a lot can happen in 3 months.
If chiro can not find anything, the I would suspect Pssm could be causing the body soreness, and I would change his diet to no fermentable sugars, I would eliminate alfalfa, grain, and would increase fat content |
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Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| If pain issues are ruled out, there are other tricks you could try. Is that your barn in the background? Is he kind of wanting to drift back to it? If so, ask him to lope on the opposite side of the circle from where you asked in the video. Where you were at in your circle when you asked him for the lope he would drift to the outside, causing him to pick up the left lead. But if you are on the opposite side of the circle when you ask, if he drifts it will be towards the inside of the circle, meaning he'd be more likely to pick up the right lead.
How does he move when he's being lunged? Can he pick up the lead and hold it there? |
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 Expert
Posts: 1367
Location: mi | It looks to me like you never ask for an actual lead just kind of let him go into a lope and his left is his dominant. I always ask them to collect a little by pushing hip in a bit and asking them to give to the bit and tip nose to inside. If you are not to that point yet you are probably going to need to be on a small arc to get him to take the weaker lead as you are so straight he can do which ever he is comfortable.
He could be sore or out somewhere that is for you to know since you know your horse.
Also he never changed leads behind. He took the easy way but they are going to break sooner or later if they are crossfiring.
Edited by ajs2002 2014-03-14 12:11 PM
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 Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | JMO, but I would not let him continue in the wrong lead for more than a stride.
One of the tricks that works just about every time is to ask him to lope, if he takes off in the wrong (in this case, left) lead, make a small circle to the right (he will break down to a trot b/c they cannot balance a tiny circle in the incorrect lead) and immediately lope out of the circle. Should only take a couple of tries for him to figure out that you want the right lead. I would break him down every time he lopes off incorrectly.
There are bazillions of tricks to try, including the one you've already done with tipping his nose the opposite direction. That one works as a cheater in the show ring or some other circumstance when you just need a quick fix, but imo, it doesn't teach them anything and sets them up unbalanced from the start. As the other poster suggested, his hips need to move to the inside to step into the lead. You can practice 'curling' him along a fence line to gain hip control. But, the circle method is a good "leads for dummies" method...which is why I have to use it sometimes! :)
Hope this helps!
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | ajs2002 - 2014-03-14 12:08 PM It looks to me like you never ask for an actual lead just kind of let him go into a lope and his left is his dominant. I always ask them to collect a little by pushing hip in a bit and asking them to give to the bit and tip nose to inside. If you are not to that point yet you are probably going to need to be on a small arc to get him to take the weaker lead as you are so straight he can do which ever he is comfortable.
He could be sore or out somewhere that is for you to know since you know your horse.
Also he never changed leads behind. He took the easy way but they are going to break sooner or later if they are crossfiring. I agree...he falls into a lope and picks up the easiest lead in this video.
Does he do the same if you ride him collected and set him up properly?
eta: same when he switches. I didn't see you set him up, although you may have. Did he just decide to switch on his own? Or, did you help him through that?
Edited by just4fun 2014-03-14 12:17 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 521
Location: Lone Star State | Thank you all! Lots of information for me to think about. On my phone, the video is nice and clear but on YouTube it's blurry. I watched this video over and over last night looking for crossfiring. Idk, maybe he is. Might have to get my husband to video a longer section for me. Yes, that is our barn and his miniature buddy was in the round pen so he does like to drift. I do understand what you're saying, jenbabe, in using that to my advantage and loping a different circle. Thank you for your insight.
He lopes in the round pen fine. Takes right lead and holds it. He's a push type horse. With that said, maybe this is just all rider error! :)
No, I did not try and set him up in this video take...I just pushed him into lope going right direction. But I'm going to try tippin his nose in and the exercise just4fun recommended this afternoon or tomorrow. I'm excited to try it.
Ulcers have crossed my mind this past summer. He is on pasture and all access to hay and minerals and salt...no grain. |
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Expert
Posts: 1367
Location: mi | He is definately cross firing after he changes leads on you. I am guessing its not for any other reason then he is a bit lazy and switching just up front is alot easier then both front and hind. Its very common for them to only switch up front. Not anything I would worry about just take note that when he switches on you and it feels all uncollected that is because he is still on the wrong lead behind. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1384
Location: Kansas | I think you need to take the time to position his and your body and your hands for the lead . He is learning and can't just be kicked and have the reins thrown away yet
When trying for flying lead changes sometimes putting a pole on the ground and asking over it will help. I would not be asking for the flying changes unti he was solid on getting both leads and can do a series of simple lead changes
Good luck |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 521
Location: Lone Star State | just4fun - 2014-03-14 12:13 PM
I agree...he falls into a lope and picks up the easiest lead in this video.
Does he do the same if you ride him collected and set him up properly?Â
eta: same when he switches. I didn't see you set him up, although you may have. Did he just decide to switch on his own? Or, did you help him through that?
Â
Yes, when I try to set him up By tipping his nose and pushing him into lope with my left foot, he'll take a step until he can gather and depart on the left lead. He does know leg pressure...he's just learned to side pass and I can move his haunches with leg pressure.
You can't tell from video, but I was using leg pressure and he switched...but no, we do not know proper flying lead change cues! I had ridden several laps before videoing. At this spot he would drift out of circle with his head arched to right...I would get after him with my left leg and push him hard and he would switch. He wasn't doing this in the video maybe he had come to expect it. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 521
Location: Lone Star State | Ok, again thanks for the info from everyone. It's what I needed. I am going to read and work on my cues for this and transition him down if not in correct lead and try again. Thanks. |
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Expert
Posts: 1367
Location: mi | This video explains it well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qxtx4EK8uJU |
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 Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: Great NW | If he was sore all over then he would need more than one Chiro Treatment to get to the core issue. he is probably still very sore in sternum. Might try a different chiro and schedule several appointments. When I am really out - my chiro schedules me 2-3 times a week for several weeks and usually about week two I feel whole again. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| ajs2002 - 2014-03-14 1:24 PM
This video explains it well.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qxtx4EK8uJU
after ruling out pain issues ... WATCH THIS ^^^ It explains the leads easily and how to correct the wrong behavior easily on your end. Also, have someone video what you're doing more often ... You can watch re-plays and realize what you are or aren't doing correctly on your end. I know it took me a while to "learn" the feel of the correct lead vs. cross firing. Good Luck!
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 Expert
Posts: 2276
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | My little mare for some reason would never hold her left lead in the back. She would pick it up but wouldn't hold it. Pain issues were ruled out so every time she would switch or do it wrong I would break her down, stop, and go the other way and let her do the right circles and then break her down, stop and turn and try to do it. If she held it we would go a couple circles and I would slow her and praise her. At first it was tiring and I got a little dizzy lol but it worked. It was showing her that it was ok to have that lead when you go one way but not another. |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | Prime age for hocks to fuse is 4 to 7. I'd be willing to bet that's what it is. I think I'd take him to the vet and make sure that's not an issue before I spent too much time or money with a chiro or with exercises. If it hurts him to pick up a lead that direction, he's not going to want to do it no matter what you try. Just my 2 cents. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I watched the video, and I don't like he is swishing his tail so much, as Diane said these are the years for hock problems to show. Swishing the tail can be a sign of that as well.
How was the horse trained? Did you train the horse? If you didn't can you speak to the person who started the horse?
I cue my horses to pick up their leads differently. I don't like tipping their nose out as this gets their inside shoulder to drop to the centre of the circle and this will cause barrel problems later on, as the fundamentals will be wrong.
I have my horses in the bridle, and their head tipped in so I can see their eye, not just their nose, I want the entire head. I also use my inside leg, I want them to bend around my leg, when asking for the lead, I will move my leg slightly forward, and give a little inside bump to cue them to pick it up. If they cannot keep their shape, I will have my outside leg a little farther back to keep the hip to the inside of the circle.
All my circles are to prepare my horses for a barrel. This is why I train my horses this way.
Once my horses have mastered the leads in the circle, they are never allowed to choose their own lead, I always choose for them, this includes straight lines.
Generally in about 3 times a horse will pick up the lead, I would still check the horse for ulcers, get chiro, and massage to examine the horse, and have the vet look at the hocks.
I have had horses not pick up leads due to ulcers, due to ribs being out, and being in pain. Listen to your horse he is telling you something, if this is new soreness for sure, if this is a constant, then it could be a training issue along with soreness, or just a training issue. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1969
Location: Texas | Epm, or SI |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Did he try to buckup or duck a lil halfway thru?
I think a few things can be going on.. one is hocks. he appears sore hence he ducks or does a lil buck up half way thru video.. Pain..
also Your departure needs to be clear as mud to him at his age.. we riders have to be active and clear on what we want ...when it comes to youngsters..Id not let him continue to lope on wrong lead at this point.. or crossfiring.. Id be more clear with him and that sometimes means get him more on the bit,setup with your body and him before asking.. but first id check his hocks .. imho.hes cute though.. love greys..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-03-14 8:20 PM
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