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 Expert
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Location: on my horse | As in bit them around to the side to a circingle etc. How long do you leave them for?
Just curious, I got to talking to some people around here and have heard everything from 20 minutes max no matter what to several hours at a time.
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24954
  
Location: WYOMING | Depends on the horse and the need... its not something I do a lot of but IMO shorter repetition over a period of days does more than hrs of standing tied back. IMO that is abusive. I also prefer biting them and having them move around the round pen, that movement keeps them thinking about and reacting to their predicament and not zoning out and becoming resistant standing still.
Edited by geronabean 2014-03-16 6:57 PM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1035
Location: TN | I think if you tie their head all you're doing is teaching them to fight that pressure because there is NO release. You're much better off riding them or being on the ground and doing a pull and release when they give to you. This is what my boyfriend and I have always done and our horses all flex around great. They'll actually learn from that, versus being tied around and never getting a release. |
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  Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | There is a time & place for it. I use it mainly to help them learn to be more consistent and to help develope their topline and learn balance. I only bit one up for a few minutes on each side. Long enough to do 3-4 laps around a round pen on each side at their final adjustment.
I also use the donut side reins so there's give, start them off very loose and work their way down. When I get them to the final tightness, they'll go around the pen 3-4 times on each side and then I'll quit. Total bit up time from very loose to final setting is about 15-30 minutes.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| I tie my barrel horse around to the right usually for about 5 minutes when she is being snootier than usual with the first barrel, and it works pretty well for a while. Sometimes I do it to the right if she is doing it at the second barrel, but not nearly as often as to the right. |
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Expert
Posts: 1482
Location: on my horse | geronabean - 2014-03-16 5:55 PM
Depends on the horse and the need... its not something I do a lot of but IMO shorter repetition over a period of days does more than hrs of standing tied back. IMO that is abusive. I also prefer biting them and having them move around the round pen, that movement keeps them thinking about and reacting to their predicament and not zoning out and becoming resistant standing still.
This is how I do it too but I'm always curious about other people's methods. |
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 Chasin my Dream
Posts: 13651
Location: Alberta | Fairweather - 2014-03-16 6:04 PM There is a time & place for it. I use it mainly to help them learn to be more consistent and to help develope their topline and learn balance. I only bit one up for a few minutes on each side. Long enough to do 3-4 laps around a round pen on each side at their final adjustment.
I also use the donut side reins so there's give, start them off very loose and work their way down. When I get them to the final tightness, they'll go around the pen 3-4 times on each side and then I'll quit. Total bit up time from very loose to final setting is about 15-30 minutes.
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| KatieMac88 - 2014-03-16 6:59 PM
I think if you tie their head all you're doing is teaching them to fight that pressure because there is NO release. You're much better off riding them or being on the ground and doing a pull and release when they give to you. This is what my boyfriend and I have always done and our horses all flex around great. They'll actually learn from that, versus being tied around and never getting a release.
I agree. I very rarely tie around--if I do, it's my last resort, and I'm standing there watching them, and I never do it more than a minute or two--just until they relax and start to soften. Then I get back on so I can release them. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | geronabean - 2014-03-16 6:55 PM
Depends on the horse and the need... its not something I do a lot of but IMO shorter repetition over a period of days does more than hrs of standing tied back. IMO that is abusive. I also prefer biting them and having them move around the round pen, that movement keeps them thinking about and reacting to their predicament and not zoning out and becoming resistant standing still.
This. |
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | If and when I bit them up or tie them around I never let them stand, I try to keep their feet moving and I rarely leave them bitted or tied up for more than say 5 minutes at a time personally. just bitting them up or tying ones head around with out them learning to do it while moving which is where we ask for it 90% of the time just seems like a waste. |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | i stopped doing it years ago.........
m |
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | If you're trying to teach a correct response to being tied around is to give to pressure, there is no time frame. It's about reward for the correct response. That happens when it happens and you MUST give relief when the try happens. I have NEVER tied a horse more than a few minutes at a time. After that it's more about punishment than try and reward. You have to know what you want to happen looks like and give reward instantly. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2276
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | I worked with a trainer and that was always her last resort. I worked with her for a few summers and only ever had to do one horse. We only did it for a few laps around the pen on each side for a couple days and he was so much better. I've seen a few people take it way too far and just leave them standing for hours...to me that isn't going to help. They need to learn that once they give and relax...they will get a release. If they don't get the release then they aren't going to want to do it even more. |
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Expert
Posts: 1482
Location: on my horse | Everybody's thinking the same way I am, when the gal I was talking to said she will leave them for hours at a time as a form of "training" I just about  |
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 Arriving at the last minute!
Posts: 5148
Location: Kansas | I never do it anymore but I know of a few very top trainers that do it almost daily in the round pen working them and even an article was in BHN a few years ago with Rayel Robinson and her bitting up techniques. She does it a specific way and she has very nice horses!! I used to do pleasure so it was a daily occurance but I sure don't want them hiding their face!! |
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I'll Be Your Huckleberry
Posts: 1488
Location: Arizona | redmansmyman11 - 2014-03-17 10:36 PM
Everybody's thinking the same way I am, when the gal I was talking to said she will leave them for hours at a time as a form of "training" I just about
I agree with others that there is a time and place for it but we have never done it for more than 10-15 minutes and under supervision/moving their feet. Hours seems like it would totally defeat the purpose of what you were trying to accomplish. The muscles would get so worn out they would probably just end up leaning on the bit for some relief of holding their head there for that long. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1584
Location: Central Texas | I haven't done it in years and often have said that it should never be done. Well....yesterday a six yr old with a few rides had decided he just wasn't going to go left and would only turn right in a tight circle on his front end spinning his hip around and absolutely would not get out of it. Finally got him stopped and tied that suckers head around to the left and let him fight it out. I stayed in the pen with him and kept his feet moving every time he pulled or leaned on the bit. He worked up a sweat and relented. It took about 15 minutes. I undid him, got on and he rode off. Yay! So, sometimes it can help. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 563
Location: Small Town Iowa | There is a time and a place to bit a horse up. And never for hours on end, it's just like a kid if you make them learn something for hours your just defeating your purpose. Short spurts for a short amount of consecutive days and the whole point is to get thier feet moving and learning how to give to the pressure. It's an old timer way of doing things and sadly many times it's overused or even tried when a better way would of been the better choice. My uncle used to train horses many, many, many years ago and we would talk about horses and stuff, and he would talk about bitting one up only if they were just a stubborn arse that wasn't getting idea of how easy things could be if they just learned to flex nicely when asked. LOL |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | amy laymon - 2014-03-18 6:46 AM I never do it anymore but I know of a few very top trainers that do it almost daily in the round pen working them and even an article was in BHN a few years ago with Rayel Robinson and her bitting up techniques. She does it a specific way and she has very nice horses!! I used to do pleasure so it was a daily occurance but I sure don't want them hiding their face!!
Amy brings up a very good point. You don't want a barrel horse to go behind the bit. You want to have softness and responsiveness but not to the point where you can't make light contact and not have the horse put his chin to his chest. I actually like a horse that runs with his head level and his nose slightly forward. But I also want a horse that will come back to me in the right frame when I ask him to. I don't use a circingle (sp?) and never have. I bit between the front legs for a few minutes and work them at a trot and lope. This teaches them where to go with their head when asked to frame up. BUT I never need to do this more than a few times in the beginning stages of riding a green baby or when I get a new horse in for riding. If done too much, they will start packing their head too low and behind the bit (like a reining horse). You don't want that in our sport.
When biting to the side it's also just a few minutes and I encourage the horse to turn into the pressure by asking them to move forward at a walk. I don't work them bit up to the side in a trot or any other fast speed. |
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| I usually bit them up 1st time of riding in the spring and if they need it. I've got 1 guy that is always pushy and he will get it a bit more frequently. However I only bit up 5-15 minutes at a time, and I like to keep them moving. I'll get them in a corner and keep them circling so they don't get used to just standing and leaning on it. I also don't want them to learn to walk straight with their head turned. Yes, they do get relief in that when they give to it, the pressure is released immediately. I don't bit up with a shanked bit. It can be a very effective tool, but with anything can be overdone. Too long and they resent it or get sore muscles. Horses have short attention spans so after a while they aren't really learning anything. Also, don't tie them too tight that they cannot get the relief; slowly get them used to the process until you are sure they will not fight it.
I don't believe in teaching them to bend their neck all the way to your stirrup. When I pick up to turn, I don't want that much bend in the neck. So, that means that I am also not tieing them that far around either. I'm also not a trainer, so take this for what it's worth. |
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