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Expert
Posts: 1477
  
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | I have a mare that's gone to be bred. She's older(15) and been there for a few weeks but wouldn't come in season. Ee gave her a shot to bring her in. She came in season Sunday. So that was great. Now though she won't let Money breed her. He tries but she kicks him. Tried everyday with no luck. Anyone have any suggestions? I asked him about putting breeding hobbles on her but he doesn't have any but doesn't like them anyway.
Edited by TessBelle 2014-03-27 8:01 PM
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
 
Location: Opelousas, LA | If you can get a vet with a decent ultrasound to look at her that would help. She may be showing heat but doesn't have a good follicle yet.
If not, dormosedan and a twitch may help, ask your vet how much to give. You want her sedated but still able to support the weight of the stud. |
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 How freakish is that?
Posts: 3927
Location: Oregon | The breeder needs to learn to use breeding hobbles or at least tie up a back leg for the safety of his stallion. Also a twitch can help immensely. Many mares are kickers and need to be restrained.
Edited by crapshooter 2014-03-27 3:12 AM
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 Canine Carryout Queen
Location: Oklahoma | TessBelle - 2014-03-27 1:24 AM I have a mare that's gone to be bred. She's older(15) and been there for a few weeks but wouldn't come in season. Ee gave her a shot to bring her in. She came in season Sunday. So that was great. Now though she won't let Money breed her. He tries but she kicks him. Tried everyday with no luck. Anyone have any suggestions? I asked him about putting breeding hobbles on her but he doesn't have any but doesn't like them anyway.
Id suggest him getting breeding hobbles -- but honestly on this kind of mare can he just collect stallion and AI?
We try to tease everything ... even AI'ing -- there are a LOT of mares - esp old mares that wont settle without live cover or extreme teasing ... but there are some mares that flat out will NOT show heat. We had a mare last year we were Ultrasounding had a nice big soft 45 -- PRIME time to be bred before ovulatioin - we tried teasing her and she wouldn't even let the stallion within 15 feet of her ... we had just gotte her and were trying to figure her out. This year she LOVES the stallion ... heck she even loves my gelding, LOL.
Your mare could just be very very scared too.... is the stallion aggressive? There are some mean stallions out there ... we had a outside mare come a week ago and they were very skeptical because she didnt show to the last stud owner and didnt get bred -- come to find out they said they stallion was VERY mean and aggressive. We teased with ours and the first day she was terrified -- after that she again became in love during tease time! ha.
So many variables but before someone gets hurt I'd ask for an ultra sound and AI her every other day til she goes out ... JMO |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | He teased her with his teaser and then tried to tease her with the stud but she wanted no part of it. I'm not gonna leave her there to try agin in her next heat because I am having to pay mare care per day. It's only $7 a day but that adds up. This is the first year Moneys been open for stud to the public so he didn't collect him so AI isn't a option. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | TessBelle - 2014-03-27 7:10 AM
He teased her with his teaser and then tried to tease her with the stud but she wanted no part of it. I'm not gonna leave her there to try agin in her next heat because I am having to pay mare care per day. It's only $7 a day but that adds up. This is the first year Moneys been open for stud to the public so he didn't collect him so AI isn't a option.
can they just do a fresh collection and AI her on site? Do people do this? |
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| Are they tracking her with ultrasound? Has she been under lights? I don't know where you live, but here in SW Kansas if I don't put mares under lights they don't start cycling normally until early April. About this time they will start going through transition where their follicle size will fluctuate and they might show signs of heat, however they won't stand because they truly aren't cycling yet. The only way to know for sure what's going on is to ultrasound. Even if the stud farm doesn't have that option, call in a vet or haul her somewhere to have it done. You will be money ahead if you have this done because you will see if she's truly cycling and approximately where in her cycle she's at. This will give you a better idea of when to take her back to the stallion and when you should expect her to ovulate. |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | Jenbabe - 2014-03-27 7:30 AM
Are they tracking her with ultrasound? Has she been under lights? I don't know where you live, but here in SW Kansas if I don't put mares under lights they don't start cycling normally until early April. About this time they will start going through transition where their follicle size will fluctuate and they might show signs of heat, however they won't stand because they truly aren't cycling yet. The only way to know for sure what's going on is to ultrasound. Even if the stud farm doesn't have that option, call in a vet or haul her somewhere to have it done. You will be money ahead if you have this done because you will see if she's truly cycling and approximately where in her cycle she's at. This will give you a better idea of when to take her back to the stallion and when you should expect her to ovulate.
I'm in south Alabama. It's already turned warm for the most part and all my mares have already came in heat on there own but she never would so he gave her lutalysin and regumate to bring her in heat and it worked or at least we think it did. She just won't stand. |
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Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| TessBelle - 2014-03-27 7:58 AM
Jenbabe - 2014-03-27 7:30 AM
Are they tracking her with ultrasound? Has she been under lights? I don't know where you live, but here in SW Kansas if I don't put mares under lights they don't start cycling normally until early April. About this time they will start going through transition where their follicle size will fluctuate and they might show signs of heat, however they won't stand because they truly aren't cycling yet. The only way to know for sure what's going on is to ultrasound. Even if the stud farm doesn't have that option, call in a vet or haul her somewhere to have it done. You will be money ahead if you have this done because you will see if she's truly cycling and approximately where in her cycle she's at. This will give you a better idea of when to take her back to the stallion and when you should expect her to ovulate.
I'm in south Alabama. It's already turned warm for the most part and all my mares have already came in heat on there own but she never would so he gave her lutalysin and regumate to bring her in heat and it worked or at least we think it did. She just won't stand.
Did he do 10 days of regumate followed by lutalyse? I would still suggest an ultrasound, that's really the only way to know for sure what you're dealing with.
Edited to add - It's not about temperature when it comes to mares cycling, it is daylight hours. That's why if you want to breed early (February 15th) you need to have your mare under lights by December 1st.
Edited by Jenbabe 2014-03-27 9:01 AM
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
| Last year I had two mares stay in transitional heat for 3 cycles, basically until June. If you aren't ultrasounding then you won't know if she is ovulating or not. Either ultrasound and see what she's got in there or keep trying to live cover. Tho the huzzies last year had no problem with the being bred part, I finally ultrasounded and they had 3-4 folicles on each ovary, all of which were 20+, none of which was going to become dominant. We just passed equinox so there is still the utmost chance your mare is in transition. Unless you put her under lights last November she has not had enough days with long enough light to bring on ovulation. |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | My bet is that she is just not ready yet. I'd bring her home for another month and try again in May.
I don't know how close you are in relation to the stud, so that may not be an option.
For the record, I did Lutalyse last year on both of my mares... one grew a 50mm follicle, the other only grew a 30mm. The 50mm mare was bred and she is due in May, my other mare stayed open. She is going to a stud this year to live cover. I also vow to never use lutalyse again. I don't like how either mare reacted with it. |
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Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| Murphy - 2014-03-27 9:58 AM
My bet is that she is just not ready yet. I'd bring her home for another month and try again in May.
I don't know how close you are in relation to the stud, so that may not be an option.
For the record, I did Lutalyse last year on both of my mares... one grew a 50mm follicle, the other only grew a 30mm. The 50mm mare was bred and she is due in May, my other mare stayed open. She is going to a stud this year to live cover. I also vow to never use lutalyse again. I don't like how either mare reacted with it.
The vet I went to several years ago used lutalyse. The breeding facility that I use now uses Estrumate instead, for the same reason - they don't like the reaction the mares have to it. You also can't always just look at the size of the follicle, as some mares will grow larger than others. You need to take into consideration the edema as that seems to be a bigger indicator of when they will ovulate.
If a mare is already cycling, you can use lutalyse or Estrumate to short cycle one, but it needs to be given a certain number of days post-ovulation. I typically short cycle my mares because it is easier to predict ovulation. We also use ovulation drugs to force them to ovulate within a certain time frame. If your mare is not cycling, but in transition, I think you can give 10 days of regumate followed by lutalyse or estrumate to try to get her to begin cycling. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1076
Location: Winds-A-Blowen, Oklahoma | Years ago I worked for a cutting horse breeder. We hand breed everything. The owner believed in the old ways and was not receptive to change. We had a high dollar bred mare that was a real bear to breed. The riper in heat she was the worse she was. We had a freshmen Young Guns Stud that just refused to even try to breed her, she intimidated him. I couldn't even get one of the hands to help me, due to the way she carried on, even with breeding hobbles. I finally tied her up short and drugged her. Bred her that way every year I was there and she always caught 1st time.
Some of the hands joked it was a form of rape, but it was for everyones safety, trust me. |
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 Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | I would not risk getting a person, the mare or the stud hurt. Some mares simply do not want to be covered.
A mare like this here, would be ultrasounded and AIed. I've had several that were like this in the past, and they settled every time via ultrasound & AI.
In fact with our mares with foals at side, we don't even waste time teasing them with a stud. We ultrasound them and that's what we go by for breeding.
Many times they won't show anything when they've got a foal at side.
And I've even had 2 mares here go into "lactational anestrus" which is where they don't even ovulate when they are nursing a foal. They will build a follicle and act like they are in heat, and then never ovulate it. But without ultrasounding those mares, you would never know it. And breeding them when they are truly not ready does more harm than good.
Was your mare ultrasounded before she was given the drugs? Because if she was randomly given those drugs without knowing where exactly she was at in her cycle, that can also cause more harm than good.
Edited by rockinas 2014-03-27 11:24 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | I just talked to him agin and he said she still wasn't letting him so were gonna try to get her to a vet to have her ultrasound. This is the first time I've ever tried to breed. I've always just bought babies but after this I think I like buying babies better. |
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Fire Ant Peddler
Posts: 2881
| Transition heat |
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| Honeymoney - 2014-03-27 12:06 PM Transition heat
I agree, she just needs another cycle or two. |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | I bought the breeding at a benefit for $250. I already have way over that in mare care and the fuel to haul her to him. I'm about ready to just give up. I don't wanna keep loosing more money. |
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Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
| TessBelle - 2014-03-27 12:30 PM I bought the breeding at a benefit for $250. I already have way over that in mare care and the fuel to haul her to him. I'm about ready to just give up. I don't wanna keep loosing more money.
Yep. The cheapest part of breeding is the stud fee, just like the cheapest part of owning a horse is buying one! There is no cheap way around what you are trying to do. The cheapest would have been to pack her up April 1 and let her stay until bred, whenever her first natural cycle was after that. Even then, I'd've wanted a positive ultrasound before heading home with her. Let the farm tease her daily and breed on day 3 or 4 of a strong heat cycle, repeat in 2 days if she still stands for the stallion. My stallion has settled all but one mare (one of those from last year) three years running with that formula. Two were maidens and they had no issue because they got to know the stallion before hand, plus he is well mannered at breeding time. |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | lonely va barrelxr - 2014-03-27 12:36 PM
TessBelle - 2014-03-27 12:30 PM I bought the breeding at a benefit for $250. I already have way over that in mare care and the fuel to haul her to him. I'm about ready to just give up. I don't wanna keep loosing more money.
Yep. The cheapest part of breeding is the stud fee, just like the cheapest part of owning a horse is buying one! There is no cheap way around what you are trying to do. The cheapest would have been to pack her up April 1 and let her stay until bred, whenever her first natural cycle was after that. Even then, I'd've wanted a positive ultrasound before heading home with her. Let the farm tease her daily and breed on day 3 or 4 of a strong heat cycle, repeat in 2 days if she still stands for the stallion. My stallion has settled all but one mare (one of those from last year) three years running with that formula. Two were maidens and they had no issue because they got to know the stallion before hand, plus he is well mannered at breeding time.
It kinda worries me with her. She was hand bred lest year but she didn't catch. This year she's not wanting to be bred at all. |
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