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Member
Posts: 19
| Any exercises or tips for a young horse who really wants to shoulder 2nd and 3rd barrel? |
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
 
| You have to tip their nose into/towards the barrel, not use the outside rein to try to keep them straight. |
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With God all things are possible
Posts: 3917
  
| Set horse with both hands (equal pressure) at point of pocket get him on his butt, then pick up to turn, |
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Member
Posts: 19
| I have been doing that as well, I really try and keep her hip under her and her nose slightly looking in, I agree with not pulling her head away I think she'd just drop her shoulder harder :) |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Mine likes to shoulder them a bit...
When he gets worse than normal it's usually a sign that his shoulder is out. When he starts bowing out it's normally a sign that's left rib is out and he won't want to flex left doing dry work either.
I try to really push him past the 2nd and 3rd because he wants to turn them straighter with more of a rollback style. |
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Veteran
Posts: 220
| Find a spot on the ground like your pocket. Look at the spot when running to your barrel do not look at the barrel. You will just go right to where you are riding if you do. Ride to that point, DO NOT SIT DOWN, before then. It will be a hard habit to break. But you will be amazed by what it will fix and the time you can shave off too. I had this problem with a gelding of mine. Took off half a second.. |
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 Hero of the Year
Posts: 10767
Location: Haslet, Texas | Just my opinion...but a young horse does not "want" to shoulder, it's the rider continually putting them in a bad position. I hope you find some drills to help both of you :).
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Regular
Posts: 66
| I would counter / reverse arc them after you have stopped them at their rating point. |
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24954
Location: WYOMING | dont know without a video.
but...
- Some people confuse shouldering or dropping with starting the turn a step too soon.
- Some people anticipate a drop or shoulder and stiffen up and start a tug o war, which actually makes the problem worse.
- Some people forget they have an outside rein that can be used in conjunction with the inside rein to guide them to the perfect point to start a turn.
- Some people drop their outside rein too soon, sit too soon and in doing that have just cued the horse to start the turn too soon.
- Some horses are incorrectly bitted and this can cause them to push into pressure instead of respond properly.
Just a few thoughts. |
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  Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | hwh - 2014-04-08 9:44 AM Just my opinion...but a young horse does not "want" to shoulder, it's the rider continually putting them in a bad position. I hope you find some drills to help both of you :).
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Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | geronabean - 2014-04-08 10:08 AM dont know without a video.
but...
- Some people confuse shouldering or dropping with starting the turn a step too soon.
- Some people anticipate a drop or shoulder and stiffen up and start a tug o war, which actually makes the problem worse.
- Some people forget they have an outside rein that can be used in conjunction with the inside rein to guide them to the perfect point to start a turn.
- Some people drop their outside rein too soon, sit too soon and in doing that have just cued the horse to start the turn too soon.
- Some horses are incorrectly bitted and this can cause them to push into pressure instead of respond properly.
Just a few thoughts.
One more:
Some people drop their own shoulder which in turn causes the horse to drop theirs. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 475
Location: Alabama | I had a horse who did this. Someone suggested flipping the pattern to get them thinking & listening again rather than anticipating. She was so good going the opposite direction, we never flipped back.
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 Veteran
Posts: 232
Location: Wisconsin | barrelracer1413 - 2014-04-08 9:47 AM
I would counter / reverse arc them after you have stopped them at their rating point.
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24954
Location: WYOMING | A lot of times I like to keep forward motion on one that wants to turn too soon or one that wants to drop too soon, I want them waiting on me and responding better to my hands and legs. I will pick their front ends up after I pass the barrel on the entrance, ask them to step over in the front a step or two and do a small 360ª circle (Cervi has a video of her doing this but for a different reason) then finish the turn. It lifts them up, keeps them forward (if you dont keep them forward they want to drop harder), keeps them collected (one that truely drops usually hollows out) and keeps them waiting on me. I also don't ride them "in hand" while I am doing this because I dont want them feeling like they have to lean into the headgear... small bumps with my hands and legs when needed. (I just help them, don't bump when they are positioned and doing the drill properly, one goal is to build their confidence that they are doing what you are asking and continued, non essential cues errode this.)
Anyhooo... works for me. 100 ways to skin a cat!!!!
Edited by geronabean 2014-04-08 11:31 AM
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24954
Location: WYOMING | Another thing to look for is how your horse is positioned going across the pen. Some horses that shoulder or drop too soon have their hips cocked out. This sets up that turn for disaster. Their shoulder leads into the turn and they start that turn before your leg is in front of the turn. Usually you will hit going in or on the first part of the backside or blow out on the exit.
If this is happening you need to teach your horse to move its hindquarters off your leg. Needs to move easily both directions. Then you need to go across the pen and make sure his body is either straight or his hip is cocked to the inside. You should be able to easily move that hip with your leg sliding back some. With a horse that already has a problem sometimes its better to cock them a smidge to the inside instead of just asking for straight. With their hip to the inside their shoulder is better pushed up and past the early entry point, their hip is better engaged and their body can't drop and follow a malpositioned shoulder. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 193
Location: USA | My mare used to be really bad for this after our week long josey clinic. I will say that, that clinic was by far one of the best ones I've been to but she is an extremely ratey horse with natural rate so no need to really check her but they would have us stop and rate way before the barrel. And after the clinic after I started riding her at home she started this diving in problem at the 2nd and 3rd and shouldering problem. So I had to really get her listening to my leg cues and took her off barrels for awhile. I made her move of my leg and move her hind quarters, fore quarters, side pass, and counter arch although she already knew how to do this I really had to tune her up where she was super soft and supple. Then I brought her back to the barrels her first is almost always awesome so no problem there but what I did was trot to second and give her a slightly bigger pocket than normal, and relax the reins letting her go to it herself. If she started to turn when she got to the barrel, I'd stop her when the barrel was at her flank turn her around and canter back to first then stop her at her pocket with her flank past the barrel. Then repeat if she just kept going straight and didn't turn when I was at the fence I'd let her turn it at a walk and then let her rest in between the first and second barrel. After about 3-5 minutes I'd do this over, nothing happens over night although it only took her about a month and a half give or take she never really does shoulder in anymore. Working keeping them in straight lines also helps and making sure that their butt is underneath them will also help this will help keep them balanced and in line around that barrel. |
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 Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | Instead of circling the barrel during practice, ride straight to your rate point/pocket rate continue straight turn a 90 degrees angle travel straight, another 90 degree and so forth making a square box around the barrel using both hands on the bridle. This will teach the horse to wait for you, and you will learn to properly position your horse for barrels. Your horse must move off your legs in order for you to do this. Take a piece of paper, draw a square on it. in the middle of the square draw a circle. The circle in the middle is the barrel, the square is how you execute the shape during practice. Don't worry about the distance during practice you will be a horse length past in all directions to do it properly. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 563
Location: Small Town Iowa | cow pie - 2014-04-08 11:35 PM
Instead of circling the barrel during practice, ride straight to your rate point/pocket rate continue straight turn a 90 degrees angle travel straight, another 90 degree and so forth making a square box around the barrel using both hands on the bridle. This will teach the horse to wait for you, and you will learn to properly position your horse for barrels. Your horse must move off your legs in order for you to do this. Take a piece of paper, draw a square on it. in the middle of the square draw a circle. The circle in the middle is the barrel, the square is how you execute the shape during practice. Don't worry about the distance during practice you will be a horse length past in all directions to do it properly.
I started doing this on my mare last year and it really helped her. Instead of working on circles around the barrel we used the "square" method. There is a clinician that uses this, I wanna say Connie Combs but I'm not sure. I'll see if I can't find a link somewhere.
Found it!!! http://www.conniecombs.com/DrilloftheMonth[1].pdf
Edited by jcrouse 2014-04-09 8:00 AM
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Hero of the Year
Posts: 10767
Location: Haslet, Texas | geronabean - 2014-04-08 12:38 PM Another thing to look for is how your horse is positioned going across the pen. Some horses that shoulder or drop too soon have their hips cocked out. This sets up that turn for disaster. Their shoulder leads into the turn and they start that turn before your leg is in front of the turn. Usually you will hit going in or on the first part of the backside or blow out on the exit.
If this is happening you need to teach your horse to move its hindquarters off your leg. Needs to move easily both directions. Then you need to go across the pen and make sure his body is either straight or his hip is cocked to the inside. You should be able to easily move that hip with your leg sliding back some. With a horse that already has a problem sometimes its better to cock them a smidge to the inside instead of just asking for straight. With their hip to the inside their shoulder is better pushed up and past the early entry point, their hip is better engaged and their body can't drop and follow a malpositioned shoulder.
I just wanted to say that you always give the best written explanation of anybody on here...you keep it direct and to the point but anybody can understand what to do when you write it. You're "The bomb"  |
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 Over Informed
Posts: 5372
Location: West Tennessee | sorrel horse ranch - 2014-04-08 10:27 AM geronabean - 2014-04-08 10:08 AM dont know without a video.
but...
- Some people confuse shouldering or dropping with starting the turn a step too soon.
- Some people anticipate a drop or shoulder and stiffen up and start a tug o war, which actually makes the problem worse.
- Some people forget they have an outside rein that can be used in conjunction with the inside rein to guide them to the perfect point to start a turn.
- Some people drop their outside rein too soon, sit too soon and in doing that have just cued the horse to start the turn too soon.
- Some horses are incorrectly bitted and this can cause them to push into pressure instead of respond properly.
Just a few thoughts. One more:
Some people drop their own shoulder which in turn causes the horse to drop theirs.
Printing this because I think the 2 of you have been sneaking to West TN & watching the munchkin. :) |
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