Itsme - 2014-04-10 8:53 PM Need more info=sheeple. Take a stand for something.

TXBO - 2014-04-11 8:19 AM  There's nothing sheeple about needing more facts than a couple of newspaper articles.



 

musikmaker - 2014-04-11 9:34 AM As long as the 'info needed' isn't who's winning so you can choose the winning side!  Lol...

Seriously, there's all the info & links you need to make an educated decision on the other thread...oh yeah....and look into your heart, check your sense of right/wrong concerning the Liberty & free will that we expect our Creator promised us.  It's all right there!

 

TXBO - 2014-04-11 12:27 PM Well, I'm torn because I think there is plenty of blame.



1) There is corruption in the granting of BLM leases.

2) Many leases are nothing but welfare.

3) Many leases do not maximize revenue.

4) Many leases are overgrazed, destroying wildlife and natural habitat.

5) BLM doesn't manage the leases until the land is ruined.

5) Many ranchers illegally deny access to public citizens that have a right to use the land.

6) This farmer should have paid his paltry lease payment.

7) BLM should not have let it go this long.

 

FlyingJT - 2014-04-11 12:39 PM It was denied, even if he sent in his payment it would have been returned. He offered his "payments" to the county which also denied it. He's the last of 15 ranchers in that area. 14 of which could not keep fighting the Feds off and sold out. This isn't about grazing fees, cattle, tortoises, or over grazed land, its about the federal government seeing more profitable uses for that land and they are going to take it.

FlyingJT - 2014-04-11 12:39 PM It was denied, even if he sent in his payment it would have been returned. He offered his "payments" to the county which also denied it. He's the last of 15 ranchers in that area. 14 of which could not keep fighting the Feds off and sold out. This isn't about grazing fees, cattle, tortoises, or over grazed land, its about the federal government seeing more profitable uses for that land and they are going to take it.

TXBO - 2014-04-11 10:27 AM Well, I'm torn because I think there is plenty of blame.



1) There is corruption in the granting of BLM leases.

2) Many leases are nothing but welfare.

3) Many leases do not maximize revenue.

4) Many leases are overgrazed, destroying wildlife and natural habitat.

5) BLM doesn't manage the leases until the land is ruined.

5) Many ranchers illegally deny access to public citizens that have a right to use the land.

6) This farmer should have paid his paltry lease payment.

7) BLM should not have let it go this long.

 

halter_ego - 2014-04-11 1:44 PM


I agree with you.  There so many issues here, you really can't form one "for" or "against".  Of course I am in support of ranching, however, I am a law abidding citizen too.  The rancher was told to remove his cattle how many years ago?  16? And continued to do what he felt he had the right to.  Just because he felt he had the right to, does not give him that right.  The land does not belong to him (I am sure he would have been irrate if another rancher had decided he also had the right to run his cattle in the same spot, but it is "public ground" and since he was not paying the lease, I guess that would give the right to anyone to put their cattle there).  It was unlawful for him to continue doing "what he wanted" no matter if anyone thinks that the law is bogus or not.  And making a decision to support one side or other other is near impossible if you are using only the media sources for your information.  They are all biased, and incomplete.

foundation horse - 2014-04-11 2:15 PM What about An American Citizen's Constitutional Right to a Fair Trial by His/Her Peers? The BLM has in essence become Judge, Jury and Executioner in this debacle. While Cliven Bundy may well be 'in the wrong' here, His Constitutional Right to a Fair Trial to decide has been usurped by Government Employees not Elected Officials. Or has anyone thought of this?

FlyingJT - 2014-04-11 2:23 PM


Foundation: that is correct, that's what started this whole thing 20 years ago. This man did not decide that he just wasn't going to pay anymore(after years of paying), it's when they kept hammering the restrictions at them, cutting permits, raising fees, it's then that he went to the courts to help him in this battle and they ignored him. Like I posted in the other thread: What if this the government suddenly controlled the street in front of your house. Imagine that you start paying a toll each month to utilize that street as well as paying your taxes, and then the toll increases, and then it goes from monthly to daily, and it continues to get more and more restrictive and then you attempt to take these matters before your representatives and before your courts but they just ignore your problems because they are getting paid by the same people that you are butting heads with. Then you realize that you are going into Court and the things said within the court room are not reflected in the transcripts and your right to record it yourself is prohibited. And then let it sink in that every dime you pay in taxes and tolls is being used in every way to combat all that you do to bring awareness to the situation

foundation horse - 2014-04-11 2:32 PM There are certainly more relevant legitimate questions than there are any kind of answers in this scenario.

dhdqhllc - 2014-04-11 2:37 PM


that is a very accurate statement..... 

FlyingJT - 2014-04-11 12:39 PM It was denied, even if he sent in his payment it would have been returned. He offered his "payments" to the county which also denied it.