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 Veteran
Posts: 103
Location: Georgia | I would like to hear experiences with nerving the heels for navicular pain. How long did it last? Did it help at all? What happened after the nerves grew back? Do you regret having it done or glad you did it? I would appreciate any information I can get. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
  
| I wouldn't do it because the horse basically can not feel his feet. He could step on a nail and not feel it. To me that's scary. I would inject, do laser, Theraplate and Aculife Patches for pain. Silver Lining Herbs has a herbal mix for navicular that I've heard good things about. Also BOT bell boots. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| You should ask for,several vets, they only get the get the bad nerve. If that is bothering the hirse i would go,for it. I have heard horror stories about alcohol hushiin in hocks just got,it done yesturday horse was much better today. You cant believe eveeyone, i had a good vet. Anything could go wrong, she took her time and lower hocks where only thing was bad, tried eveeything else. Tired of paying vets for nothing.
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
 
| I would want to know for sure what is causing the pain before making the decision to nerve one. When injections, shoeing changes, bute, etc. quit working for my gelding I was given the option of nerving or doing an MRI to find a surgical option. We chose the MRI, and I'm so thankful I spent that money. My gelding was one of the small percentage of horses that do not have a surgical option. The damage in his foot/ankle was severe, and after getting an accurate diagnosis I was told to not ride my horse anymore and that he was no longer a candidate for being nerved. The most serious part of the damage was that his navicular bone was deteriorating and had changed shape and was sawing on the flexor tendon. If he couldn't feel that pain he would have eventually sawed through his flexor tendon. I can only imagine what kind of wreck that would have been if I'd been on him making a run.
Try doing a search on here. There have been many discussions about nerving. Some people are all for it, others are totally against it. Personally, I think you have to look at each case individually to determine if it's the best thing for the horse. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2276
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | Jenbabe - 2014-04-10 11:08 PM I would want to know for sure what is causing the pain before making the decision to nerve one. When injections, shoeing changes, bute, etc. quit working for my gelding I was given the option of nerving or doing an MRI to find a surgical option. We chose the MRI, and I'm so thankful I spent that money. My gelding was one of the small percentage of horses that do not have a surgical option. The damage in his foot/ankle was severe, and after getting an accurate diagnosis I was told to not ride my horse anymore and that he was no longer a candidate for being nerved. The most serious part of the damage was that his navicular bone was deteriorating and had changed shape and was sawing on the flexor tendon. If he couldn't feel that pain he would have eventually sawed through his flexor tendon. I can only imagine what kind of wreck that would have been if I'd been on him making a run. Try doing a search on here. There have been many discussions about nerving. Some people are all for it, others are totally against it. Personally, I think you have to look at each case individually to determine if it's the best thing for the horse.
This! I was told by many vets to nerve my navicular gelding but we did more research and had a lot done on him and figured out that it wouldn't have helped to nerve him and he would have just injured himself way worse. So glad we didn't have it done. I've heard a lot of good about needing as well. Just have to do your research and know for sure that it will help to do that and you have to watch them carefully because they can't feel that area anymore. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1229
Location: Royal J Performance Horses, AZ | Well, Lets put it this way My gelding was diagnosed for Navicular in 2010. We did everything we could, corrective shoeing, injections, Bute, Time off, Different anti inflammatorys. All of this over a period of almost 4 years and he never stayed sound long, the injections helped but it wasnt for longer than 60-90 days.
In Dec 2013 I finally made the choice to go with the surgery, It cost $1,500 we did it in my barn. He was put under General anesthetic slung upside down from the roof with his feet tied to the ceiling. it took about 30-45 mins it was quick clean and picture perfect. It took him 4 weeks to heal up and within a month to a month and a half he is more spunky than EVER. He hasnt felt this good in a LONG time because his pain was GONE.
The severity of his pain got so bad he kicked at me while a friends daughter was riding him and i pat him on the butt to go a little fast into a trot and he kicked out at me, and he had NEVER done anything like that. And i've owned the horse over 10 years now. I knew his pain as hitting a new thresh hold and he couldn't deal with it any more.
In the pre surgery work up the block showed he was 90% improved which means the surgery would make him 75%-90% improved. and thats exactly what it did.
Decide to do it dont decide to do it, it's up to you. But word of caution and FYI for you. If you decide to do injections keep this in mind the more you do coffin joint injections the less of a candidate the horse is for surgery. and SOME/MOST vets WONT do the surgery if the horse has been injected as it damages the DDF tendon that runs down the back of the foot. and can encourage it to sever
Everything mentioned above was between 2 vets as well not just 1. 2 opinions are better than 1.
ALSO to those people saying don't do it cause of stone bruises, nails in their feet etc etc... You're supposed to clean your horses feet out once a day anyway, AND if you go on a rocky ride or question the horse might have something in his feet. Pick them up and LOOK. see if you find anything unusual or that is a problem. I take my guy on trails with rocks all the time and have never had an issue with. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2014-04-10 11:38 PM Well, Lets put it this way My gelding was diagnosed for Navicular in 2010. We did everything we could, corrective shoeing, injections, Bute, Time off, Different anti inflammatorys. All of this over a period of almost 4 years and he never stayed sound long, the injections helped but it wasnt for longer than 60-90 days. In Dec 2013 I finally made the choice to go with the surgery, It cost $1,500 we did it in my barn. He was put under General anesthetic slung upside down from the roof with his feet tied to the ceiling. it took about 30-45 mins it was quick clean and picture perfect. It took him 4 weeks to heal up and within a month to a month and a half he is more spunky than EVER. He hasnt felt this good in a LONG time because his pain was GONE. The severity of his pain got so bad he kicked at me while a friends daughter was riding him and i pat him on the butt to go a little fast into a trot and he kicked out at me, and he had NEVER done anything like that. And i've owned the horse over 10 years now. I knew his pain as hitting a new thresh hold and he couldn't deal with it any more. In the pre surgery work up the block showed he was 90% improved which means the surgery would make him 75%-90% improved. and thats exactly what it did. Decide to do it dont decide to do it, it's up to you. But word of caution and FYI for you. If you decide to do injections keep this in mind the more you do coffin joint injections the less of a candidate the horse is for surgery. and SOME/MOST vets WONT do the surgery if the horse has been injected as it damages the DDF tendon that runs down the back of the foot. and can encourage it to sever Everything mentioned above was between 2 vets as well not just 1. 2 opinions are better than 1. ALSO to those people saying don't do it cause of stone bruises, nails in their feet etc etc... You're supposed to clean your horses feet out once a day anyway, AND if you go on a rocky ride or question the horse might have something in his feet. Pick them up and LOOK. see if you find anything unusual or that is a problem. I take my guy on trails with rocks all the time and have never had an issue with.
FYI I do clean my horses feet out. Was just using that as an example. Glad it worked for your horse. |
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Expert
Posts: 1229
Location: Royal J Performance Horses, AZ | readytorodeo - 2014-04-11 1:29 AM
Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2014-04-10 11:38 PM Well, Lets put it this way My gelding was diagnosed for Navicular in 2010. We did everything we could, corrective shoeing, injections, Bute, Time off, Different anti inflammatorys. All of this over a period of almost 4 years and he never stayed sound long, the injections helped but it wasnt for longer than 60-90 days. In Dec 2013 I finally made the choice to go with the surgery, It cost $1,500 we did it in my barn. He was put under General anesthetic slung upside down from the roof with his feet tied to the ceiling. it took about 30-45 mins it was quick clean and picture perfect. It took him 4 weeks to heal up and within a month to a month and a half he is more spunky than EVER. He hasnt felt this good in a LONG time because his pain was GONE. The severity of his pain got so bad he kicked at me while a friends daughter was riding him and i pat him on the butt to go a little fast into a trot and he kicked out at me, and he had NEVER done anything like that. And i've owned the horse over 10 years now. I knew his pain as hitting a new thresh hold and he couldn't deal with it any more. In the pre surgery work up the block showed he was 90% improved which means the surgery would make him 75%-90% improved. and thats exactly what it did. Decide to do it dont decide to do it, it's up to you. But word of caution and FYI for you. If you decide to do injections keep this in mind the more you do coffin joint injections the less of a candidate the horse is for surgery. and SOME/MOST vets WONT do the surgery if the horse has been injected as it damages the DDF tendon that runs down the back of the foot. and can encourage it to sever Everything mentioned above was between 2 vets as well not just 1. 2 opinions are better than 1. ALSO to those people saying don't do it cause of stone bruises, nails in their feet etc etc... You're supposed to clean your horses feet out once a day anyway, AND if you go on a rocky ride or question the horse might have something in his feet. Pick them up and LOOK. see if you find anything unusual or that is a problem. I take my guy on trails with rocks all the time and have never had an issue with.
FYI I do clean my horses feet out. Was just using that as an example. Glad it worked for your horse.
Sorry! wasnt writing that to call you out or anything I didnt even take note of who said it. I just scanned responses and added my 2 cents like every one else. |
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Expert
Posts: 1229
Location: Royal J Performance Horses, AZ | ALSO OP I meant to add a friend had the neurectomy done on her horse for navicular several months before mine was done. But she ended up losing the horse several months after the fact to a bone infection and a couple other issues that arose from the surgery.
I'm writing this to point out that i didn't just get lucky and nothing went wrong and i think it's the perfect solution to it all. I watched her work her butt off to keep that horse alive until the bitter end and hey accidents, mistakes, etc happen. and who knows what caused it. but it's either going to work or it wont.
I will tell you one thing I spent over $6,000 trying to keep that horse sound in 4 years and i could have saved my self all that money by just nerving the horse, but i'm a **** stubborn mule and wanted to see if I could"Fix him" |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 830
Location: Paradise , tx | I had a mare nerved at 6 yrs because of a really large side bone, had her heels nerved to releave pain for her. Though she was never rode hard after, she was rode some, but never had any other problems.
And with just the heels nerved, her whole foot was not numb (as I understood it), but she lived to 18 (died from other issues) but she nerver had any other foot problems. The vets were surprised that it lasted the rest of her life, but apparently it did as she never was lame again |
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Veteran
Posts: 103
Location: Georgia | Thank you for your information. I see a few suggestions I haven't tried and will check into them. I've had 2 vets look at him. MRI done. Shock wave done. Injected bursa. Injected Coffin joint. The biggest improvement has been the shoeing change and coffin joint injection. Changed to a aluminum egg bar w/ wedge but is now a little off on one foot. I really want to avoid nerving him but was wanting to know others experience with it.
Edited by cj jet 2014-04-11 11:41 AM
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| I had it done. It worked great for the 7 years I owned him. Never a problem and we roped on him like crazy. I would do it again in a heartbeat. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 260
Location: Oregon | I nerved my navicular show horse when I was in high school. Unfortunately, she was so young (diagnosed at 6, 8 when we had her nerved) that the nerves grew back together in about a year and a half or two years. Yes, the vet we used did warn us that it could happen, especially with how young she was when we had the surgery done. That being said, I'm glad we did do it though. I was able to continue showing through high school and 4h, and then we retired her after I graduated (age 10) and she got to enjoy pasture life before my mom couldn't afford to do it again and couldn't take watching her be lame all the time, no matter how many drugs and shoeing ideas we tried. So we had her put down while I was in college. We just had to be a little more careful about watching what she stepped on and cleaning her feet and making sure they weren't hot from an abscess as she wouldn't show lameness from those things. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I would suggest trying tildren first before nerving.
To the person who was injecting every 2-3 months, that is about the normal time frame when injections wear off.
I also clean my horses feet out daily, but the last two years I have had septic laminitis and abscesses that I could not see without the X-ray, and hoof testers. If the horse is nerved hoof testers don't work properly. Point even cleaning horses feet out properly horses can still develop complications that cannot be seen with an untrained eye.
There is also a snake venom that can be injected into the nerve, it blocks the pain receptors, but the horses can still feel the ground and increased pressure (abscesses). It can last anywhere from 3-6 months. I used it on contracted heels. |
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Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| cj jet - 2014-04-11 11:26 AM
Thank you for your information. I see a few suggestions I haven't tried and will check into them. I've had 2 vets look at him. MRI done. Shock wave done. Injected bursa. Injected Coffin joint. The biggest improvement has been the shoeing change and coffin joint injection. Changed to a aluminum egg bar w/ wedge but is now a little off on one foot. I really want to avoid nerving him but was wanting to know others experience with it.
When I started changing the angles on one of my navicular horses by having my farrier pull the toe back hard and put her in a wedge, she was still off. Then we decided to add leather pads with the pour-in (I can't remember the exact name of it, but if you're interested I'll find it). That made a huge change. We decided that since we were pulling her back so hard that we were causing her soles to get sore. I think she was in wedges for around a year, then we added the pads for a few more shoeings with the pads, then we went to pads with regular shoes, and now she's being shod in a normal shoe with no pad. We also did her front feet every 4 weeks. She is also on Ichon (injectable joint supplement similar to Adequan) and Previcox for inflammation. She has also had her navicular bursa and coffin joints injected. |
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Expert
Posts: 1229
Location: Royal J Performance Horses, AZ | cj jet - 2014-04-11 10:26 AM
Thank you for your information. I see a few suggestions I haven't tried and will check into them. I've had 2 vets look at him. MRI done. Shock wave done. Injected bursa. Injected Coffin joint. The biggest improvement has been the shoeing change and coffin joint injection. Changed to a aluminum egg bar w/ wedge but is now a little off on one foot. I really want to avoid nerving him but was wanting to know others experience with it.
Thats exactly what i did for a year or 2 and then it got worse. Its amazing what the shoeing and coffin injections can do, but they dont last : /
( well i should say in most cases, all are different of course) |
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Veteran
Posts: 103
Location: Georgia | I was thinking about trying the pads and rubber this shoeing which will be next week. I have used them in past on another horse. I inquired about Tildren also but my horse's issues are soft tissue. Tildren is to help with bone problems correct?
Edited by cj jet 2014-04-11 7:37 PM
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| There a lot,of,options aviable for,umwould try gene olnicks first then fnd a good lamness vet and talk to them, would find someone not too young not too old. Get a plan and go,by it. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 926
| Be careful.
Navicular has become an antiquated term from back when we didn't have the technology to know what the real problem was, vet just knew their feet hurt and usually tried to diagnosis it from an xray. The only way to know what is really causing the pain is an MRI, otherwise it's a guess. X rays won't do it. I wouldn't go nerving them without one, it could work for years as other posters have indicated, or you could have a situation where the real problem was never discovered and it's downright dangerous. Not to even comment on what it could be doing to the animal that you can't know or see.
My friend had an older vet do xrays and told her horse had 'navicular'. I convinced her to have the MRI and it turned out to be a trimming problem. Using the MRI results, and a good farrier, she's been able to manage since that time.
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