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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
   
Location: 31 lengths farms | No other symptom that I am aware of but the one she did have is big...basically peed straight blood, not reddish urine, blood. She is 10 this year, I've never had an episode with her before, did switch to REnew Gold last fall and love how they look on it, other than that they are on grass/alfalfa hay with turn out in pasture for about 6 hours a day. I've slowly been increasing her ride time. I had noticed that she was in a particularly hard heat this month. Rode 4 times last week with nothing standing out to tell me she had an issue, no tightness, no stiffness. Saturday went and took a lesson, the girl did hopped on her and loped her pretty good and it was warmer than it had been. My mare didn't act like she was hurting, continued to be free and moving well until the girl I took the lesson from stopped and handed her to me, then my mare peed and it was seemingly nothing but blood. She acted more like it was a bladder infection, needing to stop to "pee" over and over. We checked her gums, they looked fine, her hind end wasn't tight or rigid, she walked up to the wash rack with no problem, hosed her down and hung out with her for awhile, when she looked like she was settled into the stall and quiet I went down and rode my gelding for a short lesson then loaded up. Again my mare was moving fine,acting like herself, took her down to the arena and let her roll, she laid down and rolled and hopped right back up. Got her home and she trotted out into her pen and peed again, this time a normal yellow stream. I had given her banamine after the issue cropped up at the lesson after we hosed her off. She hasn't missed a step since, no stiffness , acting normal, took her temp it was normal. Yesterday she peed 3 times that I was there for while checking in on her, again normal in color and not doing any of the heat "wink" that she had been doing last week....
Have a call into the vet, they had surgeries scheduled for today, where do I start other than that? Anything I should be doing for her until the vet can see us? |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | run n rate - 2014-04-14 4:58 PM No other symptom that I am aware of but the one she did have is big...basically peed straight blood, not reddish urine, blood. She is 10 this year, I've never had an episode with her before, did switch to REnew Gold last fall and love how they look on it, other than that they are on grass/alfalfa hay with turn out in pasture for about 6 hours a day. I've slowly been increasing her ride time. I had noticed that she was in a particularly hard heat this month. Rode 4 times last week with nothing standing out to tell me she had an issue, no tightness, no stiffness. Saturday went and took a lesson, the girl did hopped on her and loped her pretty good and it was warmer than it had been. My mare didn't act like she was hurting, continued to be free and moving well until the girl I took the lesson from stopped and handed her to me, then my mare peed and it was seemingly nothing but blood. She acted more like it was a bladder infection, needing to stop to "pee" over and over. We checked her gums, they looked fine, her hind end wasn't tight or rigid, she walked up to the wash rack with no problem, hosed her down and hung out with her for awhile, when she looked like she was settled into the stall and quiet I went down and rode my gelding for a short lesson then loaded up. Again my mare was moving fine,acting like herself, took her down to the arena and let her roll, she laid down and rolled and hopped right back up. Got her home and she trotted out into her pen and peed again, this time a normal yellow stream. I had given her banamine after the issue cropped up at the lesson after we hosed her off. She hasn't missed a step since, no stiffness , acting normal, took her temp it was normal. Yesterday she peed 3 times that I was there for while checking in on her, again normal in color and not doing any of the heat "wink" that she had been doing last week.... Have a call into the vet, they had surgeries scheduled for today, where do I start other than that? Anything I should be doing for her until the vet can see us?
If it's bright red blood then it might not have anything to do with tying up. I have read that blood in the urine is pretty uncommon in horses, but that would be something that needs to be ruled out. Sometimes if it's cold or if there's snow on the ground I have heard that the urine can oxidize and look like blood. When I have seen tying up the urine looks like tea or cola...not so much bloody. With her hesitancy, I would almost wonder if she wasn't passing a stone out her bladder. That can scrape the mucosa and cause bleeding that can clear pretty quickly. Again, I have read that bloody urine is uncommon in horses. |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | That's what I had read also after the fact and this was bright red, not clotty at all. She never acted sore or stiff or tight before during or after. The only time she really didn't want to walk was when she kept trying to pee more like a horse that is really having a hard heat and doing the mare "wink" but it was blood. As soon as she had done that about 3 times she walked off about dragging me back up to the trailer. I was thinking kidney stones also because this wasn't blood in her urine, this was just seemingly blood. |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
 
Location: Florida.. | Doesnt sound like tyng up at all. they will become stiff, usually sweat profusely and urine is more cola looking.
you usually can not move them much at all. if not Locked up when you get off them. she can have slight tying up but this doesnt appear to be that .. but Im no vet. if you ever think she is tying up please do not move her at all.
you can do major damage to her .
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 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | My gelding used to tie up. What you describe isn't anything like he ever did. I couldn't move him at all. He'd be like a statue, sweat, legs spread and would gap his mouth like he was yawning. It will be interesting to hear what the vet says. |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | She has an appointment with a holistic vet on Thursday, meanwhile my regular vet ordered some type of Electrolyte made specifically for horses that do tie up for her. Still not another episode of blood in her urine or just straight blood, never has gone off food nor acted sore or stiff in anyway. Bright eyed and ticked off that she didn't get worked last night. Am having a blood test done also to check Selenium levels, can they detect enzymes from a tie up episode in the blood test? |
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 Don't Need Sugar Coating
Posts: 1183
Location: AR & OK | Glad she seems to be doing ok.
Please post a follow up on what you find out was wrong. |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | That doesn't sound anything like tying up. I'd be really concerned that she peed actual blood, which sounds to me like a something in the urinary tract, bladder or kidneys. Can you even you even ultra sound a horse's bladder/kidneys? I don't know. If it happens again, try to collect some of the pee/blood for anaysis. Hope you find your answers... |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | This is my issue with it, nothing else says "tie up" episode though like I said she has never had one that I'm aware of so I'm not quite sure what one would look like per say. Its been very frustrating to say the least but will keep everyone updated on her and what we find. She always seems to do something "remarkable". She's the one that fractured her patella running into the blade of a tractor in 2011, came back sound and able to run again, then was attacked by a mountain lion in January of 2013. Its always something "unique" with her...As the holistic vet said today "she must be a good one." LOL!!! |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | Okay, so next question...the only thing different I've done was I did give them the loading dose of the generic Adequan last month. Has anyone ever had issues with that? |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | Just googled it...so it says that it has a mild anticoagulant (sp) effect. Did I just figure it out??? Help!!!
Went and talked to the vet just now, we are gong to pull blood on Thursday to read platlettes (sp) and enzymes so should have an answer soon.
Edited by run n rate 2014-04-15 6:39 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1694
Location: Willows, CA | Not a tie up. Perhaps a urinary calcification that passed. Let us know what your vet finds. |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | bumping this up so I can find it easier tomorrow hopefully with some type of update. My mare seems to be completely fine, no more bloody urine, its been clear since I got her home on Saturday after the issue cropped up. Obviously haven't ridden her because of the possible tie up episode though most and I believe she did not tie up as she has never been stiff or tight or sore. She has that floaty Arabby trot, still has it. She is having blood pulled at about 5 today to read the enzymes and check selenium and then on to the holistic therapist for a once over also, checking kidneys and such. Will let you know what we find :-)
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| run n rate - 2014-04-15 4:22 PM
She has an appointment with a holistic vet on Thursday, meanwhile my regular vet ordered some type of Electrolyte made specifically for horses that do tie up for her. Still not another episode of blood in her urine or just straight blood, never has gone off food nor acted sore or stiff in anyway. Bright eyed and ticked off that she didn't get worked last night. Am having a blood test done also to check Selenium levels, can they detect enzymes from a tie up episode in the blood test?
The ck levels is generally the test for tying up. |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | Thank you Cheryl, I will make sure to ask for that test then :-) I appreciate the help. |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | Not really a lot to update you all on. The blood draw did not happen, the vet was called out on a ranch emergency and the vet tech that he asked to do the blood draw apparently went home a little early. They are closed today with it being Good Friday. However I did speak to him this morning and we will do the blood draw on Monday, he said if it was a tie up issue the enzymes will still show.
However I did take her down to the Holistic Therapist and also had her seen by the Chiropractor that works with her, both of whom do not believe that she tied up after going over her. They both said there was no way she would move like she moves if she had tied up hard enough to be peeing blood. The Chiro went over and her and asked what I was doing for her because she needed no adjustments, the only place he could find on her was the stifle that I had warned him about where she had fractured the patella 3 years ago. Therapist went over her and much to her surprise (over the phone when I spoke to her she felt it was a tie up issue even though I explained the mare never did get tight or stiff or have any of the other symptoms of a tie up episode) she felt she hadn't tied up either. She did find that she was responsive to the acupressure points for ovaries and asked if she had been having hard heat cycles, the answer is yes. This is the first year she has had a hard heat cycle, usually she goes thru them and you don't even really notice.
I'm really leaning towards this being a side effect of the loading dose of compounded Adequan. Found that PSGAG is related to the anticoagulant Heparin. |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | Took her to my vet I used for bigger issues, ultrasounded her bladder and she has a stone. A large stone, roughly 2 inches. Either can open her up and remove it much like a colic surgery but apparently with these type surgeries they have to do a "belly sweep" about 4-6 times in the days afterward as adhesions tend to form more on this type surgery, they can try to go thru the urethra with a chisel and break it up into pieces that they might be able to then extract thru the urethra, the 3rd option is putting her down. Not a good day at my house. This is my little mare that over came the fractured patella in 2011 when she ran into a tractor blade and then was attacked by a mountain lion in January of 2013. Heartbroke doesn't even begin to describe what I'm feeling looking at this little mare. We formed a bond during 2011 while hand walking her to strengthen that stifle, that is indescribable. She is all grit and guts and heart.
We had to buy straight alfalfa last fall as wheat hay wasn't available around here, the grass hay that wasn't taken I wouldn't have fed to cows. Our water is also hard, high particularly
in Calcium, for her a "perfect storm" for a stone....
Edited by run n rate 2014-04-23 4:59 PM
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 That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| So sorry to hear. Praying it works out for you.  |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| run n rate - 2014-04-23 4:44 PM
Took her to my vet I used for bigger issues, ultrasounded her bladder and she has a stone. A large stone, roughly 2 inches. Either can open her up and remove it much like a colic surgery but apparently with these type surgeries they have to do a "belly sweep" about 4-6 times in the days afterward as adhesions tend to form more on this type surgery, they can try to go thru the urethra with a chisel and break it up into pieces that they might be able to then extract thru the urethra, the 3rd option is putting her down. Not a good day at my house. This is my little mare that over came the fractured patella in 2011 when she ran into a tractor blade and then was attacked by a mountain lion in January of 2013. Heartbroke doesn't even begin to describe what I'm feeling looking at this little mare. We formed a bond during 2011 while hand walking her to strengthen that stifle, that is indescribable. She is all grit and guts and heart.
We had to buy straight alfalfa last fall as wheat hay wasn't available around here, the grass hay that wasn't taken I wouldn't have fed to cows. Our water is also hard, high particularly
in Calcium, for her a "perfect storm" for a stone....
Find a vet that can laser it, much faster recovery |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | Checking now!~!! You are my hero Cheryl!
Edited by run n rate 2014-04-23 5:35 PM
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