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| what do you expect them to know after 60 day of training? | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1062
Location: Probably On the Road to the Next Barrel Race! | ummm...depends on horse, but generally speaking, if my husband puts 60 days on one, that is 3-5 rides a week, they should break at the poll, flex, move laterally off foot, possibly sidepass, yield the hind and forequarters, reverse arc, have a decent stop, what am I forgetting? oh, catch correct leads on cue. We are not professionals, ie, we don't take in outside horses due to time limitations, BUT...if I didn't get all that in 60 days, I'd find another trainer. I don't know maybe 90 days is more accurate, but in our barn, they are flat broke at 90 days, and always started lightly on the pattern.
Edited by CrossCreek 2014-04-18 11:42 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2685
 
| Usually in 30-40 rides (60 days or less) they will have a very nice handle. Walk, trot, lope both ways. Move off leg, break at poll, good stop, good with leads, move forehand and hind end.
I start ALL of the lots I get in on the ground for at least the first day or two. If they haven't been handled, longer. I've had some take 1 day of ground work and it was under saddle after that and they did great. I also Haagen had ones that have had pretty much no human handling that at 2 weeks are standing tied with a saddle still. | |
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 Canine Carryout Queen
Location: Oklahoma | This is my Perks Firewater Flit colt after 60 days with Phil Haugen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FhZb_GpCbE
Edited by Runnin < C > 2014-04-19 12:25 PM
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 Veteran
Posts: 292
Location: Northeast Nebraska |
Not impressed. | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
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Are you happy with the job? | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| With 60 rides on mine, they know all the buttons at all speeds, have worked at the auction, can open and close gates, have been brake away roped off of.
They also know their head set, are not evading the bit, do not need any head gear to keep their head down, nose in or mouth shut.
After 60 rides they are ready for me to jump on and put onto the pattern without any holes in their foundation. | |
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Canine Carryout Queen
Location: Oklahoma | cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 2:53 PM Are you happy with the job?
Very much so! | |
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 Horsey Gene Carrier
Posts: 1888
Location: LaBelle, Florida | I sent my first one out to a trainer (ever) as I no longer bounce when I get ejected/fall off.
Only sent her for 30 day to get the first rides out of the way. I was quite happy with the job that was done on her. Walk, trot, lope, steering and break installed. Not finished by any means but over the first ride jitters.
I rode her at her first weekend clinic with Sandy Gruninger (the Basic Handle) a couple weeks ago and she did great. We did flying lead changes on the second day, not pretty but we did get them done.
It was also the first time the filly had been ridden in a group setting, took her first mini trail ride(around the property) and did everything I asked her to do.
She was a little aprehensive about the group thing on the first day, but was much better the second.
Someone who trains does have more time and can ride one more consistantly for those all important first rides.
Edited by kasaj2000 2014-04-19 6:28 PM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Runnin < C > - 2014-04-19 6:15 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 2:53 PM Are you happy with the job? Very much so!
Below are the reasons why I don't like the colt on the video.
The horse is not taught to give to the bit, the person is using a German martingale. When the person pulls back on the reins, the head is still going up, and the nose would go out except the martingale will not allow it.
The trainer is using a caveson so the horse never learns how to accept and hold the bit, I noticed when the person gets on the horses face, the head goes up and the horse tries to open the mouth to evade the pressure.
The trainer is also quite heavy handed, I like my colts finger touch control without any training devices.
To me this is bullying the horse into training, there is no escape from the German martingale, and no escape from the caveson. | |
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 Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 5:46 PM Runnin < C > - 2014-04-19 6:15 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 2:53 PM Are you happy with the job? Very much so! Below are the reasons why I don't like the colt on the video. The horse is not taught to give to the bit, the person is using a German martingale. When the person pulls back on the reins, the head is still going up, and the nose would go out except the martingale will not allow it. The trainer is using a caveson so the horse never learns how to accept and hold the bit, I noticed when the person gets on the horses face, the head goes up and the horse tries to open the mouth to evade the pressure. The trainer is also quite heavy handed, I like my colts finger touch control without any training devices. To me this is bullying the horse into training, there is no escape from the German martingale, and no escape from the caveson.
I agree with you on this one. The colt is bracey and hollow through his back and stopping on his front end instead of his hind. I also notice how forward the trainers legs are and the only time he has them on the colt is when he kicking him. | |
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Location: Down South Mississippi | equussynergy - 2014-04-19 7:10 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 5:46 PM Runnin < C > - 2014-04-19 6:15 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 2:53 PM Are you happy with the job? Very much so! Below are the reasons why I don't like the colt on the video. The horse is not taught to give to the bit, the person is using a German martingale. When the person pulls back on the reins, the head is still going up, and the nose would go out except the martingale will not allow it. The trainer is using a caveson so the horse never learns how to accept and hold the bit, I noticed when the person gets on the horses face, the head goes up and the horse tries to open the mouth to evade the pressure. The trainer is also quite heavy handed, I like my colts finger touch control without any training devices. To me this is bullying the horse into training, there is no escape from the German martingale, and no escape from the caveson.
Yeah my colts are WAY softer than this after 60 days even the not so mature ones. | |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | Here's one with an 11 year old trainer and a 3 year old jockey. She came to our place untouched just 60 days before these videos were made....they got her pretty light 
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=s-ArinK2wfk
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=cMZxFWI6ITE | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 6:46 PM
Runnin < C > - 2014-04-19 6:15 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 2:53 PM Are you happy with the job? Very much so!
Below are the reasons why I don't like the colt on the video.
The horse is not taught to give to the bit, the person is using a German martingale. When the person pulls back on the reins, the head is still going up, and the nose would go out except the martingale will not allow it.
The trainer is using a caveson so the horse never learns how to accept and hold the bit, I noticed when the person gets on the horses face, the head goes up and the horse tries to open the mouth to evade the pressure.
The trainer is also quite heavy handed, I like my colts finger touch control without any training devices.
To me this is bullying the horse into training, there is no escape from the German martingale, and no escape from the caveson.
I'd agree. And add that the colt is visibly nervous and scared through the ride. I only watched the first five minutes, but I'd be pretty ****ed if that was my colt. He looks like a nice horse, but this heavy handed, incorrect start looks like it's made him abrasive and nervous. | |
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| I didn't watch the video, but I can say that I've seen several videos of people bragging on the 30th or so ride, and it makes me sad because these horses are nowhere near where they should be at 30 days or there are things I see the trainer doing that I don't agree with. Unfortunately, a lot of these people have sent their horses off trusting the trainer to do a good job. And usually they are sent off because the owner doesn't know how to start them correctly, so they are pleased with what they get because they don't know any better.
After 30 days I would expect a horse to travel at all gaits and transition up and down at these gaits, stop and back nicely with an elevated shoulder, pivot on the hind and front, move off of leg pressure, flex vertically and laterally, know leads, two track at a walk and maybe trot, etc. In the next 30 days we work on refining all of these things and getting a quicker and lighter response. We also work on other things such as counter arcing, two tracking at all gaits, collection, and lots of other things that I'm sure I'm forgetting! Of course, each horse is an individual so some might pick up things faster or slower than others. We try to get them out to the pasture if we have cattle, haul them to ride at other arenas, etc. | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | rachellyn80 - 2014-04-19 10:04 PM Here's one with an 11 year old trainer and a 3 year old jockey. She came to our place untouched just 60 days before these videos were made....they got her pretty light http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=s-ArinK2wfk http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=cMZxFWI6ITE
Here is the live links.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMZxFWI6ITE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-ArinK2wfk
Edited by Nevertooold 2014-04-19 10:55 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| HorseMommyFiveO - 2014-04-19 10:13 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 6:46 PM
Runnin < C > - 2014-04-19 6:15 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 2:53 PM Are you happy with the job? Very much so!
Below are the reasons why I don't like the colt on the video.
The horse is not taught to give to the bit, the person is using a German martingale. When the person pulls back on the reins, the head is still going up, and the nose would go out except the martingale will not allow it.
The trainer is using a caveson so the horse never learns how to accept and hold the bit, I noticed when the person gets on the horses face, the head goes up and the horse tries to open the mouth to evade the pressure.
The trainer is also quite heavy handed, I like my colts finger touch control without any training devices.
To me this is bullying the horse into training, there is no escape from the German martingale, and no escape from the caveson.
I'd agree. And add that the colt is visibly nervous and scared through the ride. I only watched the first five minutes, but I'd be pretty ****ed if that was my colt. He looks like a nice horse, but this heavy handed, incorrect start looks like it's made him abrasive and nervous.
How many 1D horses have you guys trained?
The lady that helps us uses a martingale tp start her colts and she has been winning futurities since the mid 90s on home bred and trained horses then the horses go onto long careers in the opens, one of her 21 year old horses just ran in the 1D at the Bonus Race Finals. Also most of her finished horses run in a hack and she doesnt use spurs or whips, so I guess I dont get the martingale hate.
So if youre trainin 1D caliber horses I might take some of what you say into consideration... | |
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 Peecans
| Itsme - 2014-04-19 11:25 PM
HorseMommyFiveO - 2014-04-19 10:13 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 6:46 PM
Runnin < C > - 2014-04-19 6:15 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 2:53 PM Are you happy with the job? Very much so!
Below are the reasons why I don't like the colt on the video.
The horse is not taught to give to the bit, the person is using a German martingale. When the person pulls back on the reins, the head is still going up, and the nose would go out except the martingale will not allow it.
The trainer is using a caveson so the horse never learns how to accept and hold the bit, I noticed when the person gets on the horses face, the head goes up and the horse tries to open the mouth to evade the pressure.
The trainer is also quite heavy handed, I like my colts finger touch control without any training devices.
To me this is bullying the horse into training, there is no escape from the German martingale, and no escape from the caveson.
I'd agree. And add that the colt is visibly nervous and scared through the ride. I only watched the first five minutes, but I'd be pretty ****ed if that was my colt. He looks like a nice horse, but this heavy handed, incorrect start looks like it's made him abrasive and nervous.
How many 1D horses have you guys trained?
The lady that helps us uses a martingale tp start her colts and she has been winning futurities since the mid 90s on home bred and trained horses then the horses go onto long careers in the opens, one of her 21 year old horses just ran in the 1D at the Bonus Race Finals. Also most of her finished horses run in a hack and she doesnt use spurs or whips, so I guess I dont get the martingale hate.
So if youre trainin 1D caliber horses I might take some of what you say into consideration...
What does being a 1D trainer have to do with being a talanted colt starter? | |
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 Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20917
Location: LouLouVille, OK | HorseMommyFiveO - 2014-04-19 10:13 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 6:46 PM Runnin < C > - 2014-04-19 6:15 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-04-19 2:53 PM Are you happy with the job? Very much so! Below are the reasons why I don't like the colt on the video. The horse is not taught to give to the bit, the person is using a German martingale. When the person pulls back on the reins, the head is still going up, and the nose would go out except the martingale will not allow it. The trainer is using a caveson so the horse never learns how to accept and hold the bit, I noticed when the person gets on the horses face, the head goes up and the horse tries to open the mouth to evade the pressure. The trainer is also quite heavy handed, I like my colts finger touch control without any training devices. To me this is bullying the horse into training, there is no escape from the German martingale, and no escape from the caveson. I'd agree. And add that the colt is visibly nervous and scared through the ride. I only watched the first five minutes, but I'd be pretty ****ed if that was my colt. He looks like a nice horse, but this heavy handed, incorrect start looks like it's made him abrasive and nervous.
Ditto... | |
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Location: Over by those oil wells, TX | I'm not going to hate on the trainer in the video but I have to agree this isn't how I like a trainer to have one going after 60 days. Agree with the poster who said the colt is hollow in his back, too. I dont see him loping his circles with his ribcage rounded to the circle and through his nose....in fact I call the way he is traveling falling in a circle and to me that softness in the ribs should have been the most important thing he should have taught after 2 weeks and way ahead of anything else like stopping fast or whatever. It kinda of looks like a quik job and I think you might have to go back to walking and trotting to teach him softness through his sides and during forward motion....He missed quite a few steps even tho the colt is traveling in a circle. It's not a correct basic circle body wise.
Edited by hopin4$ 2014-04-20 7:29 AM
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