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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
  
Location: North Dakota | I have a mare that was diagnosed with bone spurs on her navicular bone last January. I didn't do much with her last year because I was just kind of in shock and heartbroken because this horse was it. She was my special horse that I had such high hopes for and was everything I could have ever wanted in a horse. Then she came up "off" her futurity year and I asked again and again if it could be navicular and I kept getting told no that wasn't it. So I put thousands of dollars into different treatments tryin to get her 100% again but finally 4 months later we got a diagnoses that in my gut I knew what it was but still wasn't ready to hear it. Anyways I have decided to put her back to work and just get over it and do what I can to make her comfortable and enjoy her. Well she has been feeling good until recently when I have started to aks more of her and push her a little harder. She is starting to get a head bob and a more noticeable limp where as before it was just an off gate most would not be able to notice. I have her barefoot but in her xrays she has a fairly parallel to the ground palmar angle. So my question is do I try to throw some shoes and pads on her to decrease concussion? Do I wedge her or will that just cause more issues further down the road with her feet? I tried to keep her as natural as I could but I don't feel it is doing her any good right now so I think I need to try something else. She has fairly small feet for how big she is. She isn't big boned but she is about 15.3h with a big shoulder. She is out of a TB mare and you can tell...lol.
I am contiplating injections too but my vet thinks that just putting some shoes on her to decrease concussion may be enough.
I know many of you guys have similar expreriences and I love to hear other ideas. So if you have any input as to what may help this horse I would love to hear it! Like I said, TB built mare, big shoulder, small feet, parallel palmar angle, bone spurs on navicular bone, was barefoot before the diagnoses, put in shoes for a few months after diagnoses then weaned off and has been barefoot for about 8 months, just started to have noticeable limp now that she is being pushed harder.
Edited by Just Bring It 2014-04-28 9:14 AM
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  Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | I'll share my experience, but please don't take any of it the wrong way!!!!
My mare I think is 13 this year ( I would have to look at her papers). I too would describe her like you did yours. The "one". She has a ton of wins to prove it.
Long story short, she was never lame but started hitting barrels really bad. Not just tipping them, but crashing the hell out of them. After nearly 18 months of continous vet checks and xrays (because we could never find anything) we finally saw changes to her right navicular bone.
Corrective shoeing had been tried prior to this because even though we didn't have difinitive proof, we are calling it as navicular the whole time. She got much worse with corrective shoeing (we tried NB shoes and wedges, pads, etc). Upon her last vet exam at Oak Ridge in OK, all the vets there felt corrective shoeing would make it worse because her angles were already where they needed to be, and corrective shoeing would change those angles so much that it would make her more sore.
So I just said screw it and retired her. I would rather retire a sound horse then wait for her to be miserable and crippled. We will still trail ride her this summer since she is sound. And a few months ago I yanked all her shoes off. She is way sounder barefoot then she has ever been with shoes in the last four years. Funny thing is though, and I haven't talked to anybody about this yet, is she is wearing her toes almost straight across, similar to the shape of the NB shoes.
I even cruised her through a pattern last month for the heck of it, and she felt awesome :) I also put her on TLC's equibone but I have no way of knowing if it made a difference. |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | I wouldn't wedge unless you had to, I have used wedge egg bars in the past and they ruined my horses heels.
If her angles are pretty much correct, I would try the PLR shoes or PLR race if she has smaller feet or thinner walls. Those shoes have been a lifesaver for a couple of our horses. I don't know why, could just be the individual horses feet, but the regular PLRs really improved the horses feet that we used them on. I also think they are more user friendly than the NB shoes. |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | Barnmom - 2014-04-28 10:32 AM
I wouldn't wedge unless you had to, I have used wedge egg bars in the past and they ruined my horses heels.
If her angles are pretty much correct, I would try the PLR shoes or PLR race if she has smaller feet or thinner walls. Those shoes have been a lifesaver for a couple of our horses. I don't know why, could just be the individual horses feet, but the regular PLRs really improved the horses feet that we used them on. I also think they are more user friendly than the NB shoes.
What is the PLR? I think I tried them on my mare but we tried so much on her.... |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | I have been considering equibone as well but the upfront cost and loading dose is so expensive.
I had her in NB shoes at first, then we weaned her into regular shoes, and then got her back barefoot but I just think with her palmar angle (even though her feet are balanced and trimmed how they should be) that something to protect against the concussion would help. I gave her pretty much all of last year off because it made me sick to think that my 6yr old mare may be done for already and I could not see myself making her crippled by continouing to run her. But this year I have decided to see what my options are because she is too young to just turn my back on. I atleast want to give it a try and if nothing works then I atleast know I tried everything I could (afford). Right now I really haven't done too much. I have not done any injections other than I had her on Pentosan for awhile last year but because I quit running her I took her off it and it wasn't really seeming to help anyways. She is currently on nothing other than MSM and a joint supplement. I have a farrier and vet apt on Thursday so I want to see what options I have to throw at them and see if we can't come up with some kind of regimen that works for her.
Edited by Just Bring It 2014-04-28 9:41 AM
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | The only type of shoeing that did seem to help my mare was giving her a straight bar, or a heart bar, with frog support. No wedge and got ride of the pour in pad. It did seem to help her some but she is still better then barefoot. I like to think the equibone is helping her BUT I have only ridden her twice since I started her on it last october, and no new xrays yet. So there's no way to know for sure. |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | Barnmom - 2014-04-28 9:32 AM I wouldn't wedge unless you had to, I have used wedge egg bars in the past and they ruined my horses heels.
If her angles are pretty much correct, I would try the PLR shoes or PLR race if she has smaller feet or thinner walls. Those shoes have been a lifesaver for a couple of our horses. I don't know why, could just be the individual horses feet, but the regular PLRs really improved the horses feet that we used them on. I also think they are more user friendly than the NB shoes.
I think PLRs are what we had on her. Not NBs. I did not run her much that year when we had them on. Maybe I will discuss putting them back on her. Would a pad help? That way she will get some contact to her frog with the pad but also help with the concusion. |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | If you opt for pads, consider pour in pads versus regular ones. Each horse is different, but I tend to prefer pour in pads when I need them.
Also, when thinking about the equibone. Try to look at it this way, it certainly can't hurt anything to put her on it. I do plan on getting more xrays of my mare this spring after we breed her to see if it helped, but it's all about time and money right now :) |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I won't ride a horse that is lame or needs pain killers/antiinflammatories to not be in pain.
Personally if the horse was mine, the horse would have been retired if the vet could not make the horse sound by surgery (not a neurectomy), injections, or by tildren.
Horses are histoic they can handle a lot of pain before they show pain. To me as a horse owner it is my responsibility to do what is best for the horse, not what is best for me. |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | missroselee - 2014-04-28 9:39 AM The only type of shoeing that did seem to help my mare was giving her a straight bar, or a heart bar, with frog support. No wedge and got ride of the pour in pad. It did seem to help her some but she is still better then barefoot. I like to think the equibone is helping her BUT I have only ridden her twice since I started her on it last october, and no new xrays yet. So there's no way to know for sure.
I am a little worried about trying those while competing. Isn't there more tendancy to over reach and clip them? Not that she is a huge over reacher so she may be fine with them. It is just something that has me a little worried I guess. |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | cheryl makofka - 2014-04-28 10:43 AM I won't ride a horse that is lame or needs pain killers/antiinflammatories to not be in pain. Personally if the horse was mine, the horse would have been retired if the vet could not make the horse sound by surgery (not a neurectomy), injections, or by tildren. Horses are histoic they can handle a lot of pain before they show pain. To me as a horse owner it is my responsibility to do what is best for the horse, not what is best for me.
cheryl my mare was never lame. Never took a bad step. The only reason we kept poking and prodding was because she shouldn't have been hitting barrels like she was. She passed all but her very last flex test with flying colors. I just chose to retire her because I knew there would come a point in time when she would be lame if I kept riding her. Obviously it was causing discomfort or she wouldnt' have started crashing barrels. |
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Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | My husband is my farrier so I order them from EDSS, they also carry all of the NB stuff but I like the PLRs better. They really improve the quickness of the breakover all the way around the foot. The regular PLRs also come in a wedge version if you need it.
We just shod my Jet of Honor gelding with the wedge PLRs and equipak yesterday, time will tell if it helps.
Edited by Barnmom 2014-04-28 9:53 AM
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | Just Bring It - 2014-04-28 10:45 AM missroselee - 2014-04-28 9:39 AM The only type of shoeing that did seem to help my mare was giving her a straight bar, or a heart bar, with frog support. No wedge and got ride of the pour in pad. It did seem to help her some but she is still better then barefoot. I like to think the equibone is helping her BUT I have only ridden her twice since I started her on it last october, and no new xrays yet. So there's no way to know for sure. I am a little worried about trying those while competing. Isn't there more tendancy to over reach and clip them? Not that she is a huge over reacher so she may be fine with them. It is just something that has me a little worried I guess.
Not really. Straight bar or heart bar. Now an egg bar, yes, they can stop those off. But we had a pair of straight bars that did her really well that didn't stick out any further then the heel of a regular shoe would have. BUT....I never ran her after all that. I ran in her the NB and she actually won the 1D that day. That was the very last time I ever ran her :(:(.....at least I ended on a good note I guess. |
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 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | Sara you know what I think of your farrier. I have a really nice 1D mare that is now crippled thanks to him. He also came to me with the recommendation of my FORMER vet. I switched vets and farriers. They had her running again for another couple years but too much damage had done by the previous farrier and instead of continuing to work on trying to make her sound enough to run I chose to retire her as well at a very young age. You can do what you want but IMO get a 2nd opinion. I'm not saying your vet and farrier are wrong but it doesn't hurt to check elsewhere. My mare isn't the first one that he crippled and she wasn't the last.
I did the Equibone on my mare and yes I do believe in it. |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | cheryl makofka - 2014-04-28 9:43 AM I won't ride a horse that is lame or needs pain killers/antiinflammatories to not be in pain. Personally if the horse was mine, the horse would have been retired if the vet could not make the horse sound by surgery (not a neurectomy), injections, or by tildren. Horses are histoic they can handle a lot of pain before they show pain. To me as a horse owner it is my responsibility to do what is best for the horse, not what is best for me. Well she pretty much got all of last year off because I feel the same way but this year she felt great and she seemed to do better if she got out and exercised and got her circulation going. It is the concusion on her feet that is starting to cause a problem and that is why I want to address it to see if I can't get her sound. She is not drugged up to be sound. The only anti-inflammatory she gets is MSM. I don't think I am wrong for wanting to try options to make my horse comfortable and sound. I have not yet tried numerous things without luck. I haven't really tried anything yet and now I am wanting to see what my options are that could help her. There are horses out there that go on competing for years soundly that were once dead lame because the owner finally found something that worked for that particular horse. I'm not expecting a miracle and I'm not expecting to cure her but I at least want to try and not give up on her. I'm not doing this to just have a horse to run. I have others just as nice but that doesn't mean I just want to toss her aside and forget about her because she is "broken". I want to give her a fighting chance.
Edited by Just Bring It 2014-04-28 10:01 AM
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | CYA Ranch - 2014-04-28 9:48 AM Sara you know what I think of your farrier. I have a really nice 1D mare that is now crippled thanks to him. He also came to me with the recommendation of my FORMER vet. I switched vets and farriers. They had her running again for another couple years but too much damage had done by the previous farrier and instead of continuing to work on trying to make her sound enough to run I chose to retire her as well at a very young age. You can do what you want but IMO get a 2nd opinion. I'm not saying your vet and farrier are wrong but it doesn't hurt to check elsewhere. My mare isn't the first one that he crippled and she wasn't the last.
I did the Equibone on my mare and yes I do believe in it. He was not the one that did this to her. I switched to him because she came up "off" under my previous farrier (not that he did it to her because I think her issue is more genetics than anything but he wasn't addressing the issue like I wanted). DK has not done anything to this mare that was drastic to cause any lameness. All he has done is helped balance her feet. He has not rolled toes, raised heels, taken this or that off, etc. He has kept her very natural and has only tried to keep her as natural as possible while keeping her sound. I am not against another oppinion at all though. I just don't really know who else to try because there aren't too many good farriers in the area. There are other good ones hours away but getting in with them is nearly impossible. So far I have been happy with DK. He took my gelding that had a huge long stride but all of a sudden started to become a climber back into a low long strided mover. He also questions my vet and keeps her on her toes which I love. He is the one that spotted the bone spur in the x-ray in the first place. I wanted to make sure they were both there when I had it done.
Edited by Just Bring It 2014-04-28 10:11 AM
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | Just Bring It - 2014-04-28 10:07 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-04-28 9:48 AM Sara you know what I think of your farrier. I have a really nice 1D mare that is now crippled thanks to him. He also came to me with the recommendation of my FORMER vet. I switched vets and farriers. They had her running again for another couple years but too much damage had done by the previous farrier and instead of continuing to work on trying to make her sound enough to run I chose to retire her as well at a very young age. You can do what you want but IMO get a 2nd opinion. I'm not saying your vet and farrier are wrong but it doesn't hurt to check elsewhere. My mare isn't the first one that he crippled and she wasn't the last.
I did the Equibone on my mare and yes I do believe in it. He was not the one that did this to her. I switched to him because she came up "off" under my previous farrier (not that he did it to her because I think her issue is more genetics than anything but he wasn't addressing the issue like I wanted). DK has not done anything to this mare that was drastic to cause any lameness. All he has done is helped balance her feet. He has not rolled toes, raised heels, taken this or that off, etc. He has kept her very natural and has only tried to keep her as natural as possible while keeping her sound. I am not against another oppinion at all though. I just don't really know who else to try because there aren't too many good farriers in the area. There are other good ones hours away but getting in with them is nearly impossible. So far I have been happy with DK. He took my gelding that had a huge long stride but all of a sudden started to become a climber back into a low long strided mover. He also questions my vet and keeps her on her toes which I love. He is the one that spotted the bone spur in the x-ray in the first place. I wanted to make sure they were both there when I had it done.
It doesn't matter if he did it to her or not all I was suggesting is a 2nd opinion but if your happy with him then by all means keep him. |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | Oh and I will be hauling a few to another vet soon. I have a couple I want some other oppinions on. |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | CYA Ranch - 2014-04-28 10:11 AM Just Bring It - 2014-04-28 10:07 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-04-28 9:48 AM Sara you know what I think of your farrier. I have a really nice 1D mare that is now crippled thanks to him. He also came to me with the recommendation of my FORMER vet. I switched vets and farriers. They had her running again for another couple years but too much damage had done by the previous farrier and instead of continuing to work on trying to make her sound enough to run I chose to retire her as well at a very young age. You can do what you want but IMO get a 2nd opinion. I'm not saying your vet and farrier are wrong but it doesn't hurt to check elsewhere. My mare isn't the first one that he crippled and she wasn't the last.
I did the Equibone on my mare and yes I do believe in it. He was not the one that did this to her. I switched to him because she came up "off" under my previous farrier (not that he did it to her because I think her issue is more genetics than anything but he wasn't addressing the issue like I wanted). DK has not done anything to this mare that was drastic to cause any lameness. All he has done is helped balance her feet. He has not rolled toes, raised heels, taken this or that off, etc. He has kept her very natural and has only tried to keep her as natural as possible while keeping her sound. I am not against another oppinion at all though. I just don't really know who else to try because there aren't too many good farriers in the area. There are other good ones hours away but getting in with them is nearly impossible. So far I have been happy with DK. He took my gelding that had a huge long stride but all of a sudden started to become a climber back into a low long strided mover. He also questions my vet and keeps her on her toes which I love. He is the one that spotted the bone spur in the x-ray in the first place. I wanted to make sure they were both there when I had it done.
Oh yeah and I agree. I just don't know who else to try. There is a guy from MN my friend is trying to get an apt with and I am trying to see if she can't get mine in with him as well. DK has not personally given me a reason to look for someone else but I am all about getting other oppinions because they were all taught differently and have all had different experiences so who knows when someone has an idea that does the trick! |
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 Expert
Posts: 2276
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | My gelding is on equibone by TLC and has an egg bar shoe on. He feels better now than he has in years |
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