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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 669
  
Location: Central Texas | Opinions please. What opinions does anyone have on a horse, that sets a nice pocket going into the turn, holds that bend until right about the 3 quarter mark of the turn then basically comes back across straight at that point and heads out (2nd barrel). What turning style would call this? Roll back? I am sure I am not explaining this very well but maybe someone will understand. Kind of like a fish hook and then at the tip of the hook he rolls back in a straight line to near the point he entered his pocket and heads out of the barrel. 3rd barrel, pretty much the same but instead of needing to cross over he of course heads straight home. It is almost like a whip in that last step. Is this type hard to ride? Does anyone like this turning style and why? Dislikes? | |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | I'm a little confused, but will try to answer. Maybe post a video or drawn-picture of what you are talking about?
I have what I would consider to be a roll-back style horse. He is also VERY ratey. I stay two-handed until HIS hip is past the barrel and DRIVE DRIVE DRIVE all the way into it. The MOMENT I go to the horn and cue for a turn, it is like he inhales the barrel and BOOM you are already facing the other direction.
I love him, he's my trusty man, honest as the day is long - but he's not EASY by any means. You have to RIDE him the whole time, or you're going to be dragging barrels down. Drop to the horn too soon? Hit the barrel. Stop kicking before his hip gets past? Hit the barrel. Try to shape him in the pocket at all? Hit the barrel.
He is very "point-and-kick", he knows his job, but just sometimes works too hard at it and isn't very forgiving to rider error. If you don't stay focused and make sure to drive him past, he will snap over the top of the barrel pretty much.
I don't know if this answers your question... | |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | svincent gave a good answer, IMO.
Diane Guinn would also be a person I'd talk to you about this turing style... I tried a roll-back style horse of hers and I just wasn't aggressive enough to ride him how he needed to be rode. I think it would be the most rewarding type of horse to ride, but you can never slack off as svincent said.
Good luck! | |
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 The Worst Seller Ever
Posts: 4138
Location: Oklahoma | This is how I try to train all my horses to run. The style ends up very fast, plus they are able to hold their footing in the WORST ground.
Basically you make a D around the barrel.
This also alows for a horse to decide how to turn naturally. If they are more of a roll back, they will level out on the approach, If they are 4x4 they run all the way around.
Plus the shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line.
Edited by clover girl 2014-06-03 9:52 AM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1119
| clover girl - 2014-06-03 7:47 AM
This is how I try to train all my horses to run.  The style ends up very fast, plus they are able to hold their footing in the WORST ground.Â
Basically you make a D around the barrel.  Â
This also alows for a horse to decide how to turn naturally. If they are more of a roll back, they will level out on the approach, If they are 4x4 they run all the way around.Â
Plus the shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line.
Not to highjack the OP's thread but could you post a video of you running your horses or loping a colt through? I'd like to see it the pattern in action. That makes sense in my puny brain about the footing!!  | |
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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | Is this the type of turn you're talking about? Where they suddenly SNAP around and leave? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z85Tg985liE
Personally, this is the style I train for. I don't get a lot of bend, but they also tend to stay stood up in a turn and be able to handle ground. My gray horse has more bend than this, but he also is the one who has the most trouble with ground out of my 3 horses. | |
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The Worst Seller Ever
Posts: 4138
Location: Oklahoma | kissmybarrelbutt - 2014-06-03 10:48 AM clover girl - 2014-06-03 7:47 AM This is how I try to train all my horses to run. The style ends up very fast, plus they are able to hold their footing in the WORST ground.
Basically you make a D around the barrel.
This also alows for a horse to decide how to turn naturally. If they are more of a roll back, they will level out on the approach, If they are 4x4 they run all the way around.
Plus the shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line. Not to highjack the OP's thread but could you post a video of you running your horses or loping a colt through? I'd like to see it the pattern in action. That makes sense in my puny brain about the footing!!
This is what I found.
Running:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9uv_1zYqXo
My daughter trotting the mare. You can see the pivot point better here I think .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEyeBI-UFyc
Different horse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYrejxGImWs
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 669
Location: Central Texas | Sorry, I only get on here in the evenings. Yes, yes, yes, this is what I was trying to describe but you all did it so much better. My guy is slow loping the pattern right now but I could tell this is what he wants to do and was just curious about people's opinions. I will just let him be and continue on. Thanks for all the responses and info. You guys rock! | |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | ampratt - 2014-06-02 8:24 PM Opinions please. What opinions does anyone have on a horse, that sets a nice pocket going into the turn, holds that bend until right about the 3 quarter mark of the turn then basically comes back across straight at that point and heads out (2nd barrel). What turning style would call this? Roll back? I am sure I am not explaining this very well but maybe someone will understand. Kind of like a fish hook and then at the tip of the hook he rolls back in a straight line to near the point he entered his pocket and heads out of the barrel. 3rd barrel, pretty much the same but instead of needing to cross over he of course heads straight home. It is almost like a whip in that last step. Is this type hard to ride? Does anyone like this turning style and why? Dislikes?
When you talk about holding the bend until the 3/4 mark of the turn, then straightening out and leaving hard, I try to teach that by pushing their ribs IN towards the barrel as they start to complete the turn. Until that point, I have been trying to maintain some bend in the ribs with my inside foot, but 3/4 way through the turn, I step into my outside stirrup, tip their nose in with my inside rein and ask them to do a partial pivot over the inside hind foot. If you can get them to complete that move at a run, you save a step and you leave lined up with the next barrel. It can be tough to ride on a push style horse because you've got to get past it far enough so they don't drag it over leaving. I do a lot of rollbacks to teach them the footwork required in that last step because I want them to really power out of the turn once they set their feet the last time. My blaze face sorrel could snap your head back leaving a barrel from about the third week of pattern work but man he's hard to get deep enough into that second barrel pocket. Here's a run where you can see how hard he tries to leave (and how poorly I ride him) -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rOlOXpLNSk | |
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 Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | rodeowithjoker - 2014-06-03 7:28 PM ampratt - 2014-06-02 8:24 PM Opinions please. What opinions does anyone have on a horse, that sets a nice pocket going into the turn, holds that bend until right about the 3 quarter mark of the turn then basically comes back across straight at that point and heads out (2nd barrel). What turning style would call this? Roll back? I am sure I am not explaining this very well but maybe someone will understand. Kind of like a fish hook and then at the tip of the hook he rolls back in a straight line to near the point he entered his pocket and heads out of the barrel. 3rd barrel, pretty much the same but instead of needing to cross over he of course heads straight home. It is almost like a whip in that last step. Is this type hard to ride? Does anyone like this turning style and why? Dislikes? When you talk about holding the bend until the 3/4 mark of the turn, then straightening out and leaving hard, I try to teach that by pushing their ribs IN towards the barrel as they start to complete the turn. Until that point, I have been trying to maintain some bend in the ribs with my inside foot, but 3/4 way through the turn, I step into my outside stirrup, tip their nose in with my inside rein and ask them to do a partial pivot over the inside hind foot. If you can get them to complete that move at a run, you save a step and you leave lined up with the next barrel. It can be tough to ride on a push style horse because you've got to get past it far enough so they don't drag it over leaving. I do a lot of rollbacks to teach them the footwork required in that last step because I want them to really power out of the turn once they set their feet the last time. My blaze face sorrel could snap your head back leaving a barrel from about the third week of pattern work but man he's hard to get deep enough into that second barrel pocket. Here's a run where you can see how hard he tries to leave (and how poorly I ride him) -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rOlOXpLNSk
You are so nutsy! I have watched and watched and do not see you riding poorly!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Beautiful run! | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 669
Location: Central Texas | sorrel horse ranch - 2014-06-03 7:38 PM
rodeowithjoker - 2014-06-03 7:28 PM ampratt - 2014-06-02 8:24 PM Opinions please. What opinions does anyone have on a horse, that sets a nice pocket going into the turn, holds that bend until right about the 3 quarter mark of the turn then basically comes back across straight at that point and heads out (2nd barrel). What turning style would call this? Roll back? I am sure I am not explaining this very well but maybe someone will understand. Kind of like a fish hook and then at the tip of the hook he rolls back in a straight line to near the point he entered his pocket and heads out of the barrel. 3rd barrel, pretty much the same but instead of needing to cross over he of course heads straight home. It is almost like a whip in that last step. Is this type hard to ride? Does anyone like this turning style and why? Dislikes? When you talk about holding the bend until the 3/4 mark of the turn, then straightening out and leaving hard, I try to teach that by pushing their ribs IN towards the barrel as they start to complete the turn. Until that point, I have been trying to maintain some bend in the ribs with my inside foot, but 3/4 way through the turn, I step into my outside stirrup, tip their nose in with my inside rein and ask them to do a partial pivot over the inside hind foot. If you can get them to complete that move at a run, you save a step and you leave lined up with the next barrel. It can be tough to ride on a push style horse because you've got to get past it far enough so they don't drag it over leaving. I do a lot of rollbacks to teach them the footwork required in that last step because I want them to really power out of the turn once they set their feet the last time. My blaze face sorrel could snap your head back leaving a barrel from about the third week of pattern work but man he's hard to get deep enough into that second barrel pocket. Here's a run where you can see how hard he tries to leave (and how poorly I ride him) --Â https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rOlOXpLNSk
What you are explaining is what he is already doing naturally on his own. I am not sure but I don't think he is going to be a push style horse, so this may work for us very nicely. His snap back in a lope got my attention, I am just hoping I can stay with him when he starts actually running. I agree with the other poster, nice video and nice run. Thanks for sharing the it and the video. I am excited to just let him be and see how it all plays out. All my other horses are 4x4's, so this is new for me. | |
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Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | ampratt - 2014-06-03 8:05 PM sorrel horse ranch - 2014-06-03 7:38 PM rodeowithjoker - 2014-06-03 7:28 PM ampratt - 2014-06-02 8:24 PM Opinions please. What opinions does anyone have on a horse, that sets a nice pocket going into the turn, holds that bend until right about the 3 quarter mark of the turn then basically comes back across straight at that point and heads out (2nd barrel). What turning style would call this? Roll back? I am sure I am not explaining this very well but maybe someone will understand. Kind of like a fish hook and then at the tip of the hook he rolls back in a straight line to near the point he entered his pocket and heads out of the barrel. 3rd barrel, pretty much the same but instead of needing to cross over he of course heads straight home. It is almost like a whip in that last step. Is this type hard to ride? Does anyone like this turning style and why? Dislikes? When you talk about holding the bend until the 3/4 mark of the turn, then straightening out and leaving hard, I try to teach that by pushing their ribs IN towards the barrel as they start to complete the turn. Until that point, I have been trying to maintain some bend in the ribs with my inside foot, but 3/4 way through the turn, I step into my outside stirrup, tip their nose in with my inside rein and ask them to do a partial pivot over the inside hind foot. If you can get them to complete that move at a run, you save a step and you leave lined up with the next barrel. It can be tough to ride on a push style horse because you've got to get past it far enough so they don't drag it over leaving. I do a lot of rollbacks to teach them the footwork required in that last step because I want them to really power out of the turn once they set their feet the last time. My blaze face sorrel could snap your head back leaving a barrel from about the third week of pattern work but man he's hard to get deep enough into that second barrel pocket. Here's a run where you can see how hard he tries to leave (and how poorly I ride him) -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rOlOXpLNSk What you are explaining is what he is already doing naturally on his own. I am not sure but I don't think he is going to be a push style horse, so this may work for us very nicely. His snap back in a lope got my attention, I am just hoping I can stay with him when he starts actually running. I agree with the other poster, nice video and nice run. Thanks for sharing the it and the video. I am excited to just let him be and see how it all plays out. All my other horses are 4x4's, so this is new for me.
I am going to say this to you and I need to heed this advice myself. Don't worry too much about staying with your horse in the turns when he speeds up. A lot of time they are actually easier to ride when they speed up. This is what I keep trying to convince myself of. | |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | ampratt - 2014-06-03 8:05 PM sorrel horse ranch - 2014-06-03 7:38 PM rodeowithjoker - 2014-06-03 7:28 PM ampratt - 2014-06-02 8:24 PM Opinions please. What opinions does anyone have on a horse, that sets a nice pocket going into the turn, holds that bend until right about the 3 quarter mark of the turn then basically comes back across straight at that point and heads out (2nd barrel). What turning style would call this? Roll back? I am sure I am not explaining this very well but maybe someone will understand. Kind of like a fish hook and then at the tip of the hook he rolls back in a straight line to near the point he entered his pocket and heads out of the barrel. 3rd barrel, pretty much the same but instead of needing to cross over he of course heads straight home. It is almost like a whip in that last step. Is this type hard to ride? Does anyone like this turning style and why? Dislikes? When you talk about holding the bend until the 3/4 mark of the turn, then straightening out and leaving hard, I try to teach that by pushing their ribs IN towards the barrel as they start to complete the turn. Until that point, I have been trying to maintain some bend in the ribs with my inside foot, but 3/4 way through the turn, I step into my outside stirrup, tip their nose in with my inside rein and ask them to do a partial pivot over the inside hind foot. If you can get them to complete that move at a run, you save a step and you leave lined up with the next barrel. It can be tough to ride on a push style horse because you've got to get past it far enough so they don't drag it over leaving. I do a lot of rollbacks to teach them the footwork required in that last step because I want them to really power out of the turn once they set their feet the last time. My blaze face sorrel could snap your head back leaving a barrel from about the third week of pattern work but man he's hard to get deep enough into that second barrel pocket. Here's a run where you can see how hard he tries to leave (and how poorly I ride him) -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rOlOXpLNSk What you are explaining is what he is already doing naturally on his own. I am not sure but I don't think he is going to be a push style horse, so this may work for us very nicely. His snap back in a lope got my attention, I am just hoping I can stay with him when he starts actually running. I agree with the other poster, nice video and nice run. Thanks for sharing the it and the video. I am excited to just let him be and see how it all plays out. All my other horses are 4x4's, so this is new for me.
If that move is natural for him, get excited! That move is super fast when they can pull it off, especially on the third barrel because you can save a step there. I will add that core strength is really important on a horse that turns this way because they can fling you around if you aren't strong enough to stay with them. Good luck with yours - I love it when I get a horse who wants to work this style of a turn because it makes training easy.
And thanks to you and sorrel horse ranch. I still don't think I ride Cliff to his potential, but I'm working on it. Right now my challenge is riding him as a free runner outdoors because he was super ratey inside. LOL. | |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I start mine out all turning the barrels like a circle, same distance all the way around. I work on their inside hind leg driving around the turn with them being correct and round. I then will let them start to finish at a certain spot toward the end of the turn. I make sure their hip is past and I let them come around and leave. I don't want them to ever roll back on top of a barrel and hit it but I do thing that helps them snap leaving it.Â
This is my 3 YO filly in January 2014. Her second barrel is her weakest barrel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4ZN44WhJwYÂ Â
This is her in May 2014. She had time off when I went back to school and this is where she came back:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vExxvSIaIoIÂ Â
This is her exhibitioning memorial day weekend:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvfRrm1EZl8Â Â
Next horse:Â Now, I did not train this horse. When I tried her, I let her place herself around the barrels. She likes to make a decent pocket and pretty much graze the barrel with my foot leaving it. I thought it was weird but I told myself do not change anything on this mare until you see if it works. It works. LOL. When i would slow work her I would do exactly that and leave it be. I don't know what her turning style is but its fast and it works. Â
This was her when i tried her:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyoatRRaaO4Â
our first run:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFjIettpxMUÂ Â
Our third? run where I almost flew off her leaving the third:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsCewtqzN3w Â
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VduQ5Z-2RDc Â
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPVM9ZFhAyk Â
Edited by casualdust07 2014-06-03 10:53 PM
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas | My personal opinion, and experience, is that I do not like that D style, lol. It is hard to ride and they hit plenty of barrels. You want to teach one to keep moving and not do that stop and roll back on the backside of the barrel, they just get too many barrels that way. I would never buy one that turned like that simply because I have had them in the past and they just hit too many barrels. Did I mention that that style hits barrels, lol.
This is an arena record run...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiwdM2bwqoU
This is a horse that has that D style… she can win, but hits lots of barrels...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okC6l3ZH3Tc
Here are some of my favorite styles… :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd25oqY3fUU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07DLbOlxhPs
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 Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
Location: Georgia | ...
Same here. I cant ride one that rolls back on their turns. Im not an aggresive enough rider to urge them into the pocket enough not to come back on top of it. Its just not for me. | |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW |
That second video is exactly my horse. Definitely not an easy ride by any means - I'm not sure who's breathing harder after our runs, him or me. Luckily, we don't hit many because I've learned to just stay out of his way; but it SUCH an unforgiving style IMO, any little mistake or hesitation and you drag a barrel (or three) down. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| ampratt - 2014-06-03 4:56 PM
Sorry, I only get on here in the evenings. Yes, yes, yes, this is what I was trying to describe but you all did it so much better. My guy is slow loping the pattern right now but I could tell this is what he wants to do and was just curious about people's opinions. I will just let him be and continue on. Thanks for all the responses and info. You guys rock!
If you are just slow loping then your horse should be able to lope around the entire barrel regardless of what kind of running style they have. Unless you are actually running it is not possible to judge their running style. I see so many people start horses and get them loping then say "oh look how good he's doing" and they get 3/4 around the barrel, do what they think it a rollback and go the other direction. Only problem is their horse is unbalanced and has to break stride in order to do it. Then when they run fast they wonder why their horse gets behind the barrel and either jumps up and runs to the timer, fights the bit, blows out, or any other number of problems finishing the turn. It's because they actually can't turn the barrel. Unless you have run your horse, as in asked for real speed, they don't have a "style". Teach them to be able to lope around the entire barrel keeping their hip and hind end engaged. When they go fast they may end up having a stiffer or rollback style, but it shouldn't show at any other speed except run. Just my experience. | |
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The Worst Seller Ever
Posts: 4138
Location: Oklahoma | ...
I know some styles work different with some people. I have hit fewer barrels on the ones that run like this than any other style. Only time I knock on my mare is when she is getting sore in her hocks and overworking (my cue to get her injected).
I like the way your horses work too.
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas |
What do you think Bunny is?? I've found her A LOT easier to run than Lucy. Lucy and I hit lots of barrels. She doesn't roll back but she's just so dang ratey. | |
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