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| Needing some insight - I am positive this woman doesn't have a leg to stand on, but just want some BHW buddies to ease my mind :)
Back in November, I sold a 14 year old trail horse to a woman that I had owned since a 3 year old. In short; I raise and train my own horses and own two studs. I'm obviously busy enough that I don't need a trail horse, therefore she was sold.
This mare was used by my dad as a Sheriffs Mounted Posse horse over the last few years. He trailered her alone and took her out on group trail rides. She was also used for parking spectators cars at demo derbies and tractor pulls at the county fair. She was a nice good using horse, but we just didn't need her anymore with our horse business growing.
This woman tried my mare out at an indoor arena, November 2013. I had a friend riding there with me, and probably 7-10 other horses standing tied to the rail. She was late to show up so I kept riding my other horses I brought along to ride. When she arrived, I got off my horse and went to "Sassy" - She was standing perfectly at the fence all night long, even with other horses tied around her. She rode fine, even with all the other horses tied to the rail, and the lady liked her enough to buy her. Keep in mind my friend was there, and can witness that "Sassy" behaved well and rode well.
Fast forward to June 2014 - This lady sends me a facebook message saying "Sassy" is so buddy sour and that she can't ride her out on trails alone because she will stop and do small rears, wanting to go back to her buddies. I offer her some advice, but she is not an aggressive enough of a rider to take my advice. I didn't know this at the time of sale, but it turns out we have a friend in common. She tells me that our mutual friend is going to take her and see if she can get the buddy sourness out of her. I hear from her a few days to a week later, and she tells me that Sassy paces standing tied at the trailer, has terrible ground manners, and is still buddy sour. This is when I tell her she can 1) Send her to a PROFESSIONAL HORSE TRAINER or 2) Take her to the sale barn (There was a sale coming up that weekend)
Now, 7 months later this buyer wants ME to take "Sassy" back and give her the money back she paid. She tells me that I can take her back, put time on her, and resell her. Sure, I would LOVE to do that for you because honestly I really am I nice person - but the problem is I have 7-9 horses of my own that I have a hard time getting rode, not to mention I am behind on getting my 2 year olds broke out. I explained this to her and she lost it. She wrote nasty messages to me saying she thought I could be trusted, calling me a liar and misrepresenting this horse. Keep in mind I owned this horse over 10 years; if I didn't like the horse, it wouldn't have stuck around for that long.
Selling horses is hard enough right now and she expects me to do it for free, along with feeding this horse until it sells. I just can't do it. I don't have the time or money to feed another horse right now. Not to mention I don't have ROOM to put this horse on my property, I have 3 weanlings that need to be weaned in 1-2 months that need pens separate from momma obviously.
This is also important; there was no contract - the only thing I signed was a piece of paper saying she paid $X dollars in cash.
Today, June 21st - 7 months after I sold this horse, I got a court summons in the mail.
ETA: I did offer her a trade for a mare I thought would suit her better, but she wasn't interested in the trade because she thought the mare was too old.
Edited by WrapN3MN 2014-07-18 5:27 PM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
| I don't think she has a leg to stand on...you said it yourself, she is not an aggressive enough rider to control the horse, but at the same time, you should have had an actual bill of sale that says that the buyer has had an opportunity to vet the horse at their expense and that they declined, or went against the vet's findings and agreed to purchase the horse, anyways, along with their initials next to it, as well as that portion that says:
The seller makes no other warranties, express or implied, including the warranties of fitness for a particular purpose. No other agreements or promises, verbal or implied, are included unless specifically included in this written agreement.
If the horse wasn't going to work out within the first couple of weeks...*maybe* I would consider it if it was my horse...but not a whole 14 months later. Come on, lady. You just suck as a rider and horse person and don't want to take the blame for it. I can't stand people like that. | |
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Member
Posts: 17
| Anyone can take a well trained horse and "ruin" it in a matter of weeks. Respect, obedience, training, is NOT transferable.
What you, or her friend, or another trainer could get that horse to do, she may never get that horse to do.
I know that when I get a new horse I have to almost immediately take that new horse away from the others, and, take the others away from the new horse as well.
I just got a new horse in fact two weeks ago, the very first day home I took him out all by himself. But, because of all this stinking rain we've been getting further trail rides out my back have been non existent and I'm kind of worried about him. So, the next best thing is I have just been putting him out in the arena by himself. It's on the other side of the house and mostly out of sight of the other horses.
It doesn't take long for the horses to buddy up.
She would have to prove that she took that new horse off by itself right away to avoid that.
I'm sure she doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Just gather expert testimony from any and all sources that you can before going to court.
Good luck, and sorry you're in this position.
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | Just remember that the judge will most likely not be a horse person. If you can get any witnesses to come in person or at least get a notarized letter from them to give to the judge. Also, any horse professionals, vet, trainers, etc. that can come testify or at least write a letter to explain what may have possibly happened and that it was out of your control once she purchased the horse.
It doesn't sound like she has a leg to stand on, but you never know who she will bring with her and how the judge will see it. Have your ducks in a row and document everything and you should be fine.
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 Veteran
Posts: 151
| This is why I hate selling horses! People are nuts! I gave my sister a horse that was just as you explained, he was such a nice horse but he got her number in about two months. She was a very timid rider and he would start tossing his head and try to turn around for the barn and she would panic. Really I thought anyone could sit and ride him, he was very easy. But apparently he also figured out how to get what he wanted.
I'm so sorry you are in this position, file a counter suit alleging that she ruined a perfectly good horse!!
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Skeetersmom - 2014-06-21 3:54 PM This is why I hate selling horses! People are nuts! I gave my sister a horse that was just as you explained, he was such a nice horse but he got her number in about two months. She was a very timid rider and he would start tossing his head and try to turn around for the barn and she would panic. Really I thought anyone could sit and ride him, he was very easy. But apparently he also figured out how to get what he wanted. I'm so sorry you are in this position, file a counter suit alleging that she ruined a perfectly good horse!!
My gelding is gentle, well broke, and beginner friendly and yet after a month off in December, he was barn sour when I got back on him. Bucking, half-rearing, spinning...I had to wear his tail out 3 different days before he went back to normal. I sold one that had been buddy sour with me for about 2 weeks after we moved to our place, and got that way again after I sold him. New owner had to work through it with him. Horses are living creatures with minds of their own, not machines. Every interaction is a training experience. It's naive or flat out stupid to expect otherwise. | |
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| Three 4 Luck - 2014-06-21 4:06 PM Skeetersmom - 2014-06-21 3:54 PM This is why I hate selling horses! People are nuts! I gave my sister a horse that was just as you explained, he was such a nice horse but he got her number in about two months. She was a very timid rider and he would start tossing his head and try to turn around for the barn and she would panic. Really I thought anyone could sit and ride him, he was very easy. But apparently he also figured out how to get what he wanted. I'm so sorry you are in this position, file a counter suit alleging that she ruined a perfectly good horse!!
Amen! My dad called her about two weeks ago to tell her that we wouldn't be taking the mare back, and she admitted that once the mare turned around and did a little rear they took her right back to the barn and put her away. | |
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | I have no advice other than I'm sorry it happened to you! But, what you posted about what happened to you made me go look up a good bill of sale for horses (even though I currently don't have a horse for sale) for future reference. I'm sorry and I'll say a prayer for a good outcome.  | |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | If I bought a car from someone and 7 months later it made funny noises.. I wouldnt expect to get a refund..
any horse can be ruined or get bad habits in a few weeks.. not your fault.. stand firm and be self confident and business like. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| Having been in court over a horse before, I will tell you the judge will likely not know a thing about horses and you just never know what they will decide. Bring in any evidence you can - the witness from the sale day, a professional trainer who can tell the judge all the reasons this may have happened, and familiarize yourself with laws regarding the sale and guarantee of horses in your state (if any). You do not want to walk in there without any evidence or way to show the judge how these things happen. And your word will mean zero. It has to come from a reputable, unbiased third party. | |
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| Don't feel bad. I sold the horse of my dreams due to circumstances beyond my control. The older gentleman that purchased him had a young lady ride for him and she was card carrying crazy and couldn't ride a stick horse. She posted all sorts of nasty things about me, my horse, harassed me via email, and really put on a good show all over a horse that she did not own, just got to ride. Stand firm and don't waiver. It's impossible to argue with an idiot. | |
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 Dog Resuce Agent
Posts: 3459
Location: southeast Texas | A horse not regularly rode, stands around in a stall all day, fed high powered food, and you want it to work? Like sticking a key in it and ride off?
Sounds like she is negligent in the proper care and feeding of horses. (that is a take off of a Dr Laura book) | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2258
| I went through this a couple of years ago. I sold a gelding and a few weeks later the lady tells me he is lame and tries to run away with her. She said she was getting a lawyer and taking me to court if I don't buy him back and that she was going to the sale with him. I made a few calls and told her to lawyer up if that is what she needed to do. I had a friend who bought him from the lady to save him from the sale. We sold him last fall and the people love him. The gal never sued me I am pretty sure she got told that she had no case. There was not a thing wrong with this horse and he passed a vet exam and rode like a champ .
Edited by cutnrunqhmt 2014-06-21 9:11 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 464
| You had better bring an expert witness, besides yourself. I doubt the judge knows anything about horses. He'll probably side with her if you don't. | |
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| This might be a dumb question, but if she wins and I owe her $xx does that mean she keeps the money and the horse, or will the horse be returned to me? | |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| If she sued for money than that's all she gets. All depends on what is in the complaint. Is this in small claims or is it in civil court. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | I know that this is stressful but even if the judge isn't a horse person he/she has to follow a precedence. The woman isn't claiming you sold her a lame or injured horse, you sold her a perfectly good horse that 7 months later doesn't work the same as it did when you sold it to her. Months after you buy something it won't be the same, and especially a living creature with it's own mindset.
The judge should make decisions based on a reasonable assumption and reasonable assumption is that 7 months later your obligations have ended. Feed, exercise schedule, ability of the rider all play a factor. I'm sure this woman could buy a stick horse and file a suit against the manufacturer that it's giving her splinters years later.
She may have no plans to pursue the case but put it forward hoping it would scare you into paying her. Stand your ground and remember it's up to her to PROVE its your fault and she won't be able to do that.
Sorry this happened to you and try not to let it get you down!
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| people are nuts google the craziest lawsuit won it will blow you away. and they wrere jury trials
be prepared | |
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 Playing the Waiting Game
Posts: 2304
| Maybe have it moved to Lincoln county Oklahoma the judge there is a barrelracer and her kids rope. | |
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 Ms. Manners
Posts: 1820
Location: Oklahoma | IF she wins (not likely), she would get the money and you get the horse back. She can't have both.
In addition to witnesses who can go to court with you (some judges will not accept even notarized statements since they cannot ask questions or cross examine), do you have all your correspondence with her? Do you have emails, FB messages, texts, or anything she sent you stating how happy or satisfied she as with her purchase? Those would seriously boost your case. This is one type of case here treating a horse as property can ork to your advantage . . . horses are purchased as-is. I might also see if you can have anyone who is not a friend testify as to how the horse acted during the years prior to the sale. Even your Dad ould be an outstanding witness as a law enforcement officer who depended on the mare's calm, steady, reliable demeanor to do his job well.
Best of luck!
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