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Expert
Posts: 2685
   
| So as you guys know I have crippled, crippler and young LOL
Anywho "crippled" is not so crippled anymore (yay cause I'm going broke). I tried walk/ trot the barrels this morning and well it did not go so hot. Before I found out about the crippled issue the pattern work was the same. Now her warming up she is a whole nothing horse. MUCH smoother, easier to maneuver, keeps her head much more level ect. I am EXTREMELY happy with this. However slow work still sucks butt. I hate it.
First I'll tell you why we are doing slow work at all 1. for me to learn to ride the horse properly on the barrels to fit her style and 2. she started a minor habit of dropping into the 2nd barrel. I say minor because you can pick her up off of it if you ride her by and DO NOT LOOK at the barrel IN ANY WAY (lol) I want to start back slow and fix it and work my way back up and get every bit of temptation to drop out.
Here's why I hate it: she doesn't do slow work like she runs the barrels. If you watch her run she will run to the first with a little bit of shape, burry up and turn. She will run straight at the other 2 and burry up and turn, like I said she will sometimes try to give herself a pocket and shoulder the 2nd but if I focus really hard on riding PERFECT I can keep her from it or at least tone it down enough that its not a concern. At the trot she is stiff as a board going to the 1st, will hit it coming out because she's lazy, will either try to cream the 2nd or trot straight on by it lol (like F U) and swings her butt on the 3rd BUT if you go ahead and ask for speed it all tightens up and goes almost perfect. Its so aggravating.
Do I just not do slow work and try to fix whatever I want to fix at a run? I have heard of horses like that. Just never thought I would have one. She is really broke just a TURD. On another note, is there any exercises I can do without barrels to help smooth out her turns and work on the anticipation factor? |
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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
 
Location: Kansas | Don't use barrels, or don't use all three at once. Use a big round hay bale, a telephone pole, whatever else you have available to do slow work without her realizing that it's slow work. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1302
Location: California | My horse was similar when I got him. Rights and lefts. All I did. Circled him until he would relax and supple up and then would head to the next one exaggerating leaving the barrel and moving out inbetween barrels and then slowing down and getting between my hands at the barrel. He now has the PRETTIEST slow work and its so smooth and relaxed and easy. It did take over a year (not all consistantly) to get him there though. When I bought him he didn't even know what a trot was, how to hold a lead, how to stop, or move off my leg without speeding up full speed. Hopefully yours is a little better than that! LOL |
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | My 13 year old gelding is a another one who you can walk or trot the pattern no problem, slow lope it however and he becomes a pi$$y mare somehow. HATES slow working the pattern so on him I do the all lefts all rights drill and he is fine with that. When I do this drill however I always start by loping the perimeter of the area then turn the 2nd barrel in the direction he would turn it on the pattern, then go to the 3rd barrel and then to the 1st barrel all in right handed turns, then as I finish that last barrel I lope off towards the fence behind the 1st. Then I do the left turns starting also at the 2nd barrel, go to the 3rd and the to the 1st barrel, break him back to the trot and finish the pattern as a whole. He will do the slow lope circle work all day long for me this way. In his mind loping the pattern is mind numbing work. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
Location: flatlands | rodeowithjoker - 2014-08-19 12:43 PM Don't use barrels, or don't use all three at once. Use a big round hay bale, a telephone pole, whatever else you have available to do slow work without her realizing that it's slow work.
I would disagree with this. The horse needs to understand what its doing, otherwise, it won't retain the lesson. The purpose of slow work is to back off and pay attention to the little details of the pattern, but most importantly, to listen to the rider and wait for the rider to cue. But if the horse thinks it is just taking a stroll, it won't be focused and the intent is lost. I've had a very respected trainer tell me she doesn't believe in walking the pattern much because she doesn't think her horses pay attention at the walk. They start lolly-gagging (sp?) and miss the point. Most of her work slow work is done at the trot. Taking the barrels out isn't a bad idea, though, as is substituting other objects (cones, maybe round-bales even).
Personally, without having seen your horse, I would take him to the top of the pattern and lope. And lope. And lope some more. Lope circles near the start between the 1st and 2nd until he relaxes and collects himself. You don't need to work the pattern at all; just work around it.
Once he relaxes with that--could even be days later--set up at the starting line like you intend to make a run. At the trot, move him forward, but instead of going all the way to the 1st, turn him before, so he is listening to you, not working the barrel. Circle as many times as it takes to relax him; then start again. Everytime he gets chargy, circle before your reach the barrel. You can do this on any of the barrels, and you never actually have to turn any of them.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
Location: flatlands | little_bug - 2014-08-19 1:02 PM My horse was similar when I got him. Rights and lefts. All I did. Circled him until he would relax and supple up and then would head to the next one exaggerating leaving the barrel and moving out inbetween barrels and then slowing down and getting between my hands at the barrel. He now has the PRETTIEST slow work and its so smooth and relaxed and easy. It did take over a year (not all consistantly) to get him there though. When I bought him he didn't even know what a trot was, how to hold a lead, how to stop, or move off my leg without speeding up full speed. Hopefully yours is a little better than that! LOL
Totally agree! |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| Thank you everyone. I think I may have misrepresented the horse. She doesn't get antsy. I guess she just doesn't take it seriously unless I'm loping or faster. She kind of lolly gags around at a trot and will ignore a few cues then over exadurate some cues and just be a butt at a trot. At a lope or faster though she is responsive and listens and works a great pattern.
I thought maybe putting on some spurs to wake her butt up and say hey you can take me serious or I can get serious. I usually just work her in a really light oring and tshoes. She runs in a jr cowhorse. Very light, smart, mature horse just knows how to make a ride miserable without actually acting out thinking I'll get off like her last 3 jockeys. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| If I had a horse that was ignoring me at the slow work, I'd start doing dressage type riding with her. Responsive and well-rounded horses make better barrel horses. |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2931
Location: North Dakota | RoaniePonie11 - 2014-08-19 1:28 PM Thank you everyone. I think I may have misrepresented the horse. She doesn't get antsy. I guess she just doesn't take it seriously unless I'm loping or faster. She kind of lolly gags around at a trot and will ignore a few cues then over exadurate some cues and just be a butt at a trot. At a lope or faster though she is responsive and listens and works a great pattern. I thought maybe putting on some spurs to wake her butt up and say hey you can take me serious or I can get serious. I usually just work her in a really light oring and tshoes. She runs in a jr cowhorse. Very light, smart, mature horse just knows how to make a ride miserable without actually acting out thinking I'll get off like her last 3 jockeys.
Sounds like you just need to step up and be her rider.
Don't let her get away with her antics and make her do what you came to do. When she does it nicely, leave her alone. But don't let her quit until she has done what you asked.
Barrel drills are your best friend. You don't have to simply do the barrel pattern over and over. Use 4 barrels, or more. Or just use 1 barrel. Just do random drills with the barrels and keep her listening to you.
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | A horse like this needs alot of relaxing trail riding. And while you do this then I would throw in a few drills like loping slow circles, figure eights have some poles set up somewhere and play with those, have a barrel here and there to play with, I would get her away from the arena. |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| Thank you everybody!
Today was her first time in an arena in weeks. I think it has to do with the past riders being young and "slow working" (fast to them) on the barrels so many times. I agree with the dressage stuff. My other 2 that I have had for basically their whole lives are definitely not like this but they are broke to me so I'm sure they know to listen to "mom."
I'm going to look up some stuff that works on her form turning and way not that doesn't include barrels. I'm liking the pole idea but not setting up the pole pattern and using cones. I would like to start taking her to the lake to do trails that require her to go up and over and through but she's navicular and I fear the terrain with her feet being like they are. She is sound now but the last thing I need to do is make her sore.
Thanks again everyone :) |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1094
Location: Idahome | I have found this exercise from Dena is very helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL86oZiyIo0&list=UUqNLM1b3NSNCOQxFBH...
My gelding is fine to walk/trot, but anything faster and he starts to get antsy. This exercise has mellowed him out quite a bit. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | RoaniePonie11 - 2014-08-19 3:58 PM Thank you everybody! Today was her first time in an arena in weeks. I think it has to do with the past riders being young and "slow working" (fast to them) on the barrels so many times. I agree with the dressage stuff. My other 2 that I have had for basically their whole lives are definitely not like this but they are broke to me so I'm sure they know to listen to "mom." I'm going to look up some stuff that works on her form turning and way not that doesn't include barrels. I'm liking the pole idea but not setting up the pole pattern and using cones. I would like to start taking her to the lake to do trails that require her to go up and over and through but she's navicular and I fear the terrain with her feet being like they are. She is sound now but the last thing I need to do is make her sore. Thanks again everyone :)
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | I'm gonna be the odd man out here and say maybe she doesn't need much slow work. How many runs did you make on her before she became "crippled"? I'm a firm believer in that when you buy a finished horse that often times we over work them and sometimes the problems we have are maybe compounded by slow work. I had a horse in college that was a really nice horse. Finished when I bought him but had never been to a rodeo. He was a really tough horse, but was also by far the strongest horse i'd ever ridden. The first few runs we made, I won by large margins. The more runs we made, the wheels started falling off the wagon, and the more I worked him trying to "fix" what was broken. The more I worked the worse things got until finally I took him back to the lady that trained him and she kept him a week and told me to come get him, that he was fine. I got there to pick him up expecting her to show me what she'd done and how to fix him the next time and she handed me the lead rope and said quit screwing with him....he knows his job, you need to know yours. From that point on either lunged him or ponied him to exercise him. I never even rode him at home. We had a very business relationship that qualified me for the CNFR three of the 4 years I was in college, we were in the top 10 in the Nation in the NIRA, he qualified me for every rodeo finals in which I ever had a card, and was a 1D horse for me everywhere I went for about 9 years. I sold him when he was 18 and he went on to carry another lady to two other rodeo finals and many other wins. He was a great one, but I had to learn MY role. You have to know your horse (and i'm sure you do), and if the mistakes are worth aggravating her to try to "fix". |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| Herbie - 2014-08-19 4:32 PM
I'm gonna be the odd man out here and say maybe she doesn't need much slow work. How many runs did you make on her before she became "crippled"? I'm a firm believer in that when you buy a finished horse that often times we over work them and sometimes the problems we have are maybe compounded by slow work. I had a horse in college that was a really nice horse. Finished when I bought him but had never been to a rodeo. He was a really tough horse, but was also by far the strongest horse i'd ever ridden. The first few runs we made, I won by large margins. The more runs we made, the wheels started falling off the wagon, and the more I worked him trying to "fix" what was broken. The more I worked the worse things got until finally I took him back to the lady that trained him and she kept him a week and told me to come get him, that he was fine. I got there to pick him up expecting her to show me what she'd done and how to fix him the next time and she handed me the lead rope and said quit screwing with him....he knows his job, you need to know yours. From that point on either lunged him or ponied him to exercise him. I never even rode him at home. We had a very business relationship that qualified me for the CNFR three of the 4 years I was in college, we were in the top 10 in the Nation in the NIRA, he qualified me for every rodeo finals in which I ever had a card, and was a 1D horse for me everywhere I went for about 9 years. I sold him when he was 18 and he went on to carry another lady to two other rodeo finals and many other wins. He was a great one, but I had to learn MY role. You have to know your horse (and i'm sure you do), and if the mistakes are worth aggravating her to try to "fix".
See this is what I'm thinking. I grew up on a horse that was honestly a holy terror to ride and definitely did not need tuned on so I did my best to pony or lunge her all the time. I'm wondering if that is the way to go with this horse. I have been lunging her for the past 2 weeks to check her soundness from treating the foot issue and have rode her like twice. Once a few days ago (long trotted and loped straight lines) and today which was a holy terror only because she did her "oh I'm going to ignore this cue because I'm bored but oh now I'm going to bend in half like you have daggers on your feet (tennis shoes) just because I can." I just got so mad I got off.
I am wondering if the "issue" is worth the slow work. So far I think if I ride as close to perfect like really focus on the fence going to the 2nd and really make sure I don't look at the barrel she makes a great barrel. I just hate feeling so on edge but I think its one of those things where its a riding hurtle I need to jump anyways. I mean don't get me wrong I want to put on my boots and spurs and go out there and dare her to ignore me but is it worth the argument? I feel very disrespected by her in this sense not being able to get/ keep her attention during slow work without pissy attitude but I did not make this horse, I simply jumped in and out of her life throughout the years so lord knows what all has been done to make her this way. She has been through some crazy hands I know for sure.
I plan on making a run this weekend so I think I'll just lunge her and ride her in the pasture until then and see what happens. I'll do my dangdest to ride the right way and see what kind of a run she makes. If she does her job the way I tell her to (good or bad LOL) then I'll leave her alone. If not its back to the drawing board and maybe fighting that fight. I'm not so much bothered by the "issue" as I am her lack of attention when I go to trying to correct her. She doesn't look around, she just gives me the finger and continues to do it her way. |
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 Veteran
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Location: Texas | I have a horse that can run with the best of them. However, if you watched him do slow work around the barrels you would think he'd never seen the pattern. I keep him legged up in and out of the arena and make sure he's responsive to my cues and we roll on! |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | Mia - 2014-08-19 9:09 PM I have a horse that can run with the best of them. However, if you watched him do slow work around the barrels you would think he'd never seen the pattern. I keep him legged up in and out of the arena and make sure he's responsive to my cues and we roll on!
My old bay horse is the same way. He does not do slow work. You point him at the barrels, he is going to run them. NO MATTER WHAT. If we have an issue on the pattern, I study the video and try to do a better job the next time. To rule out soreness with him, I'll do rollbacks or lope him in a small circle in the arena but he doesn't go around the barrels unless there's money on the line. It just frustrates both of us because he knows his job and sees no point in doing it at anything less than full speed.
My younger horses have been taught that they have to do some slow work if I ask for it though I'm sure I don't do as much as most folks. Most of my slow work is done at a walk with a really small pattern so neither horse nor rider gets bored and we can get through several times in just a few minutes. In general, the majority of my problems during a run have been able to be corrected by me fixing my riding, and I do that by practicing doing everything right at a walk. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| RoaniePonie11 - 2014-08-19 4:58 PM
...I would like to start taking her to the lake to do trails that require her to go up and over and through but she's navicular and I fear the terrain with her feet being like they are. She is sound now but the last thing I need to do is make her sore.
Thanks again everyone :)
If she has navicular, trail riding isn't going to be any more "hard" on her lameness than running barrels with her, even with rough terrain. Tight turns are the #1 thing to avoid with a horse with navicular so it would probably be better to trail ride and give her a break from all the turning. Just my thinking. |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-20 8:29 AM
RoaniePonie11 - 2014-08-19 4:58 PM
...I would like to start taking her to the lake to do trails that require her to go up and over and through but she's navicular and I fear the terrain with her feet being like they are. She is sound now but the last thing I need to do is make her sore.
Thanks again everyone :)
If she has navicular, trail riding isn't going to be any more "hard" on her lameness than running barrels with her, even with rough terrain. Tight turns are the #1 thing to avoid with a horse with navicular so it would probably be better to trail ride and give her a break from all the turning. Just my thinking.
Well heck if that's true I'll be taking her. She is currently sound. I was just told the rough terrain, rocks, hills ect were bad for navicular horses so I have been riding on grass and sand only.
ETA I don't work the cans (or run) very often. So far she has been run 3 times and "worked" 3 times since mid June. I just don't want people to think I'm hammering her on the barrels. I would like to start hauling and running since I'm spending so much to keep her on cloud 9 might as well make it worth it.
Edited by RoaniePonie11 2014-08-20 3:22 PM
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Trail riding should not hurt her, as long as she is shoed right. |
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