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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
 
| So my gelding just got home from 60 days at a trainer. He's 8 years old, just started on the pattern during those 60 days. Before that our time was spent trail riding and some dressage lessons here and there.
I would like to point out before going any further that THIS BUCKING IS NOT A PAIN ISSUE. He has always been the horse that likes to buck when he gets wound up or excited. Even out in the field when he gets running around, he's a bucker.
At the trainer, he wasn't pushed for speed; understandable, he was JUST started on the pattern. He needs a smooth consistent pattern before we're asking for speed.
So I have taken him to three exhibitions and he's getting to the point where he is wanting to hustle a little more. I'm not asking for the hustle, I'm asking for nice smooth patterns. Obviously if he's comfortable hustling a little on his own, I'm not really going to need to be asking for it right now.
Yesterday he warmed up great. Loped a NICE smooth pattern, nice tight turns, all the barrels were still standing, and then coming out of the third barrel, he wanted to move out a little more. I let him a little bit, and then he started to get a little crow-hoppy (he bucks like a bronc when he can get his head down, rounded back, straight up stuff). I kept hold of his head, and pushed him forward through it, while holding on tightly :-D We finished with me still on the horse, so that is always a plus! I considered it a successful day! LOL!
Are there any exercises I can do at home to get him to understand that the sprinting is an actual job, and not screw-off time? That's where he gets into trouble because he thinks the running faster part is all about kicking up his heels (literally) and having fun. It might be fun for him, but not for me! LOL!
I do sprint him out on the trails, but it seems to be the arena where he gets a combination of excited and maybe a little nervous and that is when his MO is to kick up his heels.
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 Midget Lover
   
Location: Kentucky | I know you said it's not a pain issue, but have you had a lameness exam done on him, just to make certain?
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | I totally feel your pain, suckerforhorses. I have a 4 YO that i've had a similar issue with, however mine did what you're describing at the exhibitions and then when I made a run on him at home, he worked a beautiful pattern and then bogged his head and made an audition for the eliminator pen at the NFR. We ran this colt at the track last year, so he KNOWS how to run with someone on him.
I have been to three different vets to make sure it isn't a pain issue, three complete flex tests and nothing. We injected his TMJ joint, put him on ulcer meds, and previcoxx just in case there was some minor inflammation somewhere we couldn't see that might be bothering him. I haven't had the nerve to try it again yet. I can handle one humping up with me and bucking along like that, but this bog your head and jump and kick like he did wasn't much fun and I am not too excited about doing it again.
I don't have the answer, but I do feel your pain. I've backed off of my colt on the barrels and just doing some basic stuff until he earns a little bit of my trust back.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| Murphy - 2014-08-25 11:55 AM
I know you said it's not a pain issue, but have you had a lameness exam done on him, just to make certain?
Â
Yes, I'm certain per multiple vet exams and knowing my horse like the back of my hand.
So, in light of that clarification:
Are there any exercises I can do at home to get him to understand that the sprinting is an actual job, and not screw-off time?
Edited by SuckerForHorses 2014-08-25 11:10 AM
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Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-25 12:08 PM Murphy - 2014-08-25 11:55 AM I know you said it's not a pain issue, but have you had a lameness exam done on him, just to make certain?
Yes, I'm certain per multiple vet exams and knowing my horse like the back of my hand. So, in light of that clarification: Are there any exercises I can do at home to get him to understand that the sprinting is an actual job, and not screw-off time?
I didn't mean to offend, just asking. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| Murphy - 2014-08-25 12:15 PM
SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-25 12:08 PM Murphy - 2014-08-25 11:55 AM I know you said it's not a pain issue, but have you had a lameness exam done on him, just to make certain?
 Yes, I'm certain per multiple vet exams and knowing my horse like the back of my hand. So, in light of that clarification: Are there any exercises I can do at home to get him to understand that the sprinting is an actual job, and not screw-off time?
Not offended, I know how some of these questions turn into 85 people asking about pain so I wanted to be sure it was addressed from the start. I have been guilty of pointing out the pain aspect when folks ask these sorts of questions, so that is always the first thing I rule out on my own horses also. | |
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 The Worst Seller Ever
Posts: 4138
Location: Oklahoma | Aside from Trying to ride it out and busting his butt, I have never come up with an answer to that question. With maturity I have had some come out of it.
Edited by clover girl 2014-08-25 11:30 AM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Of the 85 questions that will be asked
Are you sure it is not saddle fit. Have you watched videos to make sure the saddle isn't hitting his back when taking off from the barrel.
If he sprints at home fine, this leads me to believe something is different when he takes off from the barrel.
It could be stifle catching, sometimes a horse needs to kick out to get it to unlock
It could be something in the hock catching, I had a horse that felt like he was humping up and it was because his hocks were shot, he had bone spurs interfering with tendons, if you haven't xrayed it might be worth xraying as some horses will flex sound and they are not in pain till a tight turn.
Ribs out could cause a horse to buck, I had one would buck everytime her ribs were out, needless to say she is someone else's pasture pet now.
Pssm can cause horses to buck as the lactic acid buildup can cause cramping that can cause a horse to buck. There are more muscles used in barrel racing then just sprinting and this may be why he doesn't do it while sprinting.
Ulcers can cause a horse to do many things so I think about this when they are bucking.
The other thing is you might just have a dirty horse that will continue bucking, you will need to decide how far you are willing to go and how much you are willing to tolerate. I have seen a handful of buckers that are talented, personally I won't tolerate a bucker, my life is more important.
To help get a horse over it, wet saddle blankets, and roll backs in the arena. A no sugar diet, and turnout 24/7.
Edited by cheryl makofka 2014-08-25 11:34 AM
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I would check my saddle all over and pad, cinch to make sure nothing is pinching him anywhere to cause him to want to buck, I have one that get's excited too at times, I checked all these just to make sure, and that's when I went with a different saddle pad and he stoped all his messing around, but then there is some horses that love to goof around and got to grow out of their playful ways.
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2014-08-25 11:34 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| cheryl makofka - 2014-08-25 12:32 PM
Of the 85 questions that will be asked
Are you sure it is not saddle fit. Have you watched videos to make sure the saddle isn't hitting his back when taking off from the barrel.
If he sprints at home fine, this leads me to believe something is different when he takes off from the barrel.
It could be stifle catching, sometimes a horse needs to kick out to get it to unlock
It could be something in the hock catching, I had a horse that felt like he was humping up and it was because his hocks were shot, he had bone spurs interfering with tendons, if you haven't xrayed it might be worth xraying as some horses will flex sound and they are not in pain till a tight turn.
Ribs out could cause a horse to buck, I had one would buck everytime her ribs were out, needless to say she is someone else's pasture pet now.
Pssm can cause horses to buck as the lactic acid buildup can cause cramping that can cause a horse to buck. There are more muscles used in barrel racing then just sprinting and this may be why he doesn't do it while sprinting.
Ulcers can cause a horse to do many things so I think about this when they are bucking.
The other thing is you might just have a dirty horse that will continue bucking, you will need to decide how far you are willing to go and how much you are willing to tolerate. I have seen a handful of buckers that are talented, personally I won't tolerate a bucker, my life is more important.
To help get a horse over it, wet saddle blankets, and roll backs in the arena. A no sugar diet, and turnout 24/7.
I am aware of everything on this partial list of 85 questions and all have been considered, explored, and ruled out. I know this horse. I have had him since he was 3 and this bucking while excited or wound up has always been his response, not just now that we've started loping a pattern. He does it out on the trail when he gets excited as well.
Can we just humor me and answer the question about exercises that may help him understand the sprinting is his job, and not permission to F-off on the run home?
Thanks!
Edited by SuckerForHorses 2014-08-25 11:39 AM
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| be very careful........I have found even if I do get a horse past issues like you mention, i never trust them and it's hard to be confident when you know it's always a possibility.
As far as exercises......I would have him very tired before I ran barrels on him. Wear him out and maybe he will feel like working instead of goofing. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| clover girl - 2014-08-25 12:28 PM
 Aside from Trying to ride it out and busting his butt, I have never come up with an answer to that question. With maturity I have had some come out of it.
I'm afraid this is the only "solution" so to speak.
Yesterday when we did our practice run, he was a little "stiff legged" so I knew there was some shenanigans up his sleeve so for our regular run I was ready for it.
I was NOT going to ask him to go faster (i.e. I was not going to kiss or squeeze, was just going to let him travel at whatever speed he felt comfortable) but when he started to crow hop, I kept his head up, grabbed ahold of my cantle, and DROVE him forward! He sped up and crow hopped a few times into that, and then came out of it the last few strides before we crossed the timer. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| y_do_i_do_this - 2014-08-25 12:39 PM
be very careful........I have found even if I do get a horse past issues like you mention, i never trust them and it's hard to be confident when you know it's always a possibility. Â
As far as exercises......I would have him very tired before I ran barrels on him. Wear him out and maybe he will feel like working instead of goofing. Â
Oh yeah, I'll always be on my toes with this one, even if he goes months without shenanigans! LOL!
BUT, I will say that he is very smart, and GENERALLY when he gets worked a few times so that he knows its WORK, and not a game, he likes to work and agrees to it very readily. That's why I'm thinking (hoping?) that once he realizes this is part of the JOB, it will be something he does honestly, like the rest of the work we do. | |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-25 10:40 AM So my gelding just got home from 60 days at a trainer. He's 8 years old, just started on the pattern during those 60 days. Before that our time was spent trail riding and some dressage lessons here and there. I would like to point out before going any further that THIS BUCKING IS NOT A PAIN ISSUE. He has always been the horse that likes to buck when he gets wound up or excited. Even out in the field when he gets running around, he's a bucker. At the trainer, he wasn't pushed for speed; understandable, he was JUST started on the pattern. He needs a smooth consistent pattern before we're asking for speed. So I have taken him to three exhibitions and he's getting to the point where he is wanting to hustle a little more. I'm not asking for the hustle, I'm asking for nice smooth patterns. Obviously if he's comfortable hustling a little on his own, I'm not really going to need to be asking for it right now. Yesterday he warmed up great. Loped a NICE smooth pattern, nice tight turns, all the barrels were still standing, and then coming out of the third barrel, he wanted to move out a little more. I let him a little bit, and then he started to get a little crow-hoppy (he bucks like a bronc when he can get his head down, rounded back, straight up stuff). I kept hold of his head, and pushed him forward through it, while holding on tightly :-D We finished with me still on the horse, so that is always a plus! I considered it a successful day! LOL! Are there any exercises I can do at home to get him to understand that the sprinting is an actual job, and not screw-off time? That's where he gets into trouble because he thinks the running faster part is all about kicking up his heels (literally) and having fun. It might be fun for him, but not for me! LOL! I do sprint him out on the trails, but it seems to be the arena where he gets a combination of excited and maybe a little nervous and that is when his MO is to kick up his heels.
You are asking advice on here and everybody that has answered you are just trying to help, so dont take it wrong with the answers you get, you are getting good advice here...
To me if he dont buck while sprinting on trails, and he does in the arena running barrels, to me there is something going on, could be something not fitting right saddle, pad to stiff, cinch bothering him or he does hurt after making a tight turn and it hurts to move out so hes telling you, but then again he could be goofing off. But I dont think so. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| "He does it out on the trail when he gets excited as well. "
From a standstill. This isn't only something he does while on a pattern or sprinting on the trail. We could be walking along and if he gets wound up (other horses running, etc) his go-to is to buck and act like an idiot. While not doing anything other than walking.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
| And there ARE horses who are buckers for reasons other than pain, sometimes for no reason at all other than they are feeling fresh. Not every buck is because there is something wrong somewhere. | |
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| MYO sell him its not worth you get hurt who can trust a bucker? send to a stock contractor for a while he either will get rode out of it or
may become a elimator nfl | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 876
Location: Wisconsin | Have to tried to sprint him and then if he humps up made him lope big fast circles? How about big fast circles? If he humps up make the circles smaller and more difficult? I would make him think that everytime he even thinks about humping up he is going to go to work. After he bucked on the run home did you continue out and work his butt off? I had one that would do it due to a saddle fit. Took care of that and he would do it if my foot got a little to far back. Everytime he did it he got worked hard. Now if he gets excited you can actually feel him think twice. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1531
Location: South | Almost every young horse i've started has wanted to buck and play once they felt confident enough to start really running on the way home. I don't know if it's because I don't ask for speed until they have successfully walked, trotted and loped a perfect pattern for months at exhibitions or what. I do wonder if it's because it never clicked with them that they get to go fast in the beggining, or what since I do take my time and do it correctly. I ruled out pain with the 3 I had that did it as well- and you definitely can tell they're playing, unfortunately the only thing that I could do was push past and ride out the buck.
It's extremely beneficial to breeze them on a track. Especially next to a seasoned horse who knows how to run. I find theyre too busy trying to pace them than to play. There is a lot of empty, open space to keep running through it instead of having to stop once you get past the timer and around all the other horses. All of mine finally got over it after riding it out, unfortunately.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 915
Location: SE KS | SuckerForHorses - 2014-08-25 12:40 PM
And there ARE horses who are buckers for reasons other than pain, sometimes for no reason at all other than they are feeling fresh. Not every buck is because there is something wrong somewhere.
I agree, while mine is NOT a "chronic" bucker, I let him have a week off, & the first night I saddled him up & asked him to do something, he bucked me off. Needless to say he worked "perfect" circles for 30 minutes after that!!! And for the rest of the week too!!! He just felt good!!! (not as good the rest of the week though!!!  | |
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