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Member
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Edited by 3ToBurn 2015-03-24 10:53 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | I think for the majority of barrel racers, yes... Barrel racers in general are not as adamant about dams being proven as racing breeders are.
But on the flip side, barrel racers in general will not pay as much for a prospect as racing people do either. There's just more money in racing.
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
 
| I think it depends on the particular operation and what their breeding objectives are. When I purchased this mare Jess I was looking for a nice looking mare with a nice pedigree, that had a decent track record. I really wanted a mare that could run 250 yards under 13 seconds. That was one of my loose criteria. I found jess and she had a good pedigree, while not super saught after in the arena, but she had the quick speed, and good looks, so I jumped on it. But nice mares are really hard to come by. And they are very expensive. I don't know if people care about AAAT speed in a mare but I figured it sure can't hurt. We will see if it pays off in the future. | |
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 Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
 
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Whiteboy - 2014-09-16 3:45 PM I think it depends on the particular operation and what their breeding objectives are. When I purchased this mare Jess I was looking for a nice looking mare with a nice pedigree, that had a decent track record. I really wanted a mare that could run 250 yards under 13 seconds. That was one of my loose criteria. I found jess and she had a good pedigree, while not super saught after in the arena, but she had the quick speed, and good looks, so I jumped on it. But nice mares are really hard to come by. And they are very expensive. I don't know if people care about AAAT speed in a mare but I figured it sure can't hurt. We will see if it pays off in the future.
You stole that mare. | |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| LRQHS - 2014-09-16 3:48 PM Whiteboy - 2014-09-16 3:45 PM I think it depends on the particular operation and what their breeding objectives are. When I purchased this mare Jess I was looking for a nice looking mare with a nice pedigree, that had a decent track record. I really wanted a mare that could run 250 yards under 13 seconds. That was one of my loose criteria. I found jess and she had a good pedigree, while not super saught after in the arena, but she had the quick speed, and good looks, so I jumped on it. But nice mares are really hard to come by. And they are very expensive. I don't know if people care about AAAT speed in a mare but I figured it sure can't hurt. We will see if it pays off in the future.
I stole a vet bill and another mouth to feed is all I stole!! lol | |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Whiteboy - 2014-09-16 3:50 PM LRQHS - 2014-09-16 3:48 PM Whiteboy - 2014-09-16 3:45 PM I think it depends on the particular operation and what their breeding objectives are. When I purchased this mare Jess I was looking for a nice looking mare with a nice pedigree, that had a decent track record. I really wanted a mare that could run 250 yards under 13 seconds. That was one of my loose criteria. I found jess and she had a good pedigree, while not super saught after in the arena, but she had the quick speed, and good looks, so I jumped on it. But nice mares are really hard to come by. And they are very expensive. I don't know if people care about AAAT speed in a mare but I figured it sure can't hurt. We will see if it pays off in the future.
Soooooooo, you don't want her no mo??? | |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| LRQHS - 2014-09-16 3:54 PM Whiteboy - 2014-09-16 3:50 PM LRQHS - 2014-09-16 3:48 PM Whiteboy - 2014-09-16 3:45 PM I think it depends on the particular operation and what their breeding objectives are. When I purchased this mare Jess I was looking for a nice looking mare with a nice pedigree, that had a decent track record. I really wanted a mare that could run 250 yards under 13 seconds. That was one of my loose criteria. I found jess and she had a good pedigree, while not super saught after in the arena, but she had the quick speed, and good looks, so I jumped on it. But nice mares are really hard to come by. And they are very expensive. I don't know if people care about AAAT speed in a mare but I figured it sure can't hurt. We will see if it pays off in the future.
Haha I didn't say that! | |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Whiteboy - 2014-09-16 3:57 PM LRQHS - 2014-09-16 3:54 PM Whiteboy - 2014-09-16 3:50 PM LRQHS - 2014-09-16 3:48 PM Whiteboy - 2014-09-16 3:45 PM I think it depends on the particular operation and what their breeding objectives are. When I purchased this mare Jess I was looking for a nice looking mare with a nice pedigree, that had a decent track record. I really wanted a mare that could run 250 yards under 13 seconds. That was one of my loose criteria. I found jess and she had a good pedigree, while not super saught after in the arena, but she had the quick speed, and good looks, so I jumped on it. But nice mares are really hard to come by. And they are very expensive. I don't know if people care about AAAT speed in a mare but I figured it sure can't hurt. We will see if it pays off in the future.
That's what I thought, Whiteman. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1094
Location: Idahome | A nice dam side of the pedigree is definitely a good thing, but I will always be a firm believer that some mares are put on this earth to produce winners not necessarily be winners themselves. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| To me it depends on the money im dropping, the age of the prospect and what I expect out of the prospect. If I want a almost guaranteed 1D/rodeo horse I wouldnt settle for anything less than the dam and stud being 1D/multi-rodeo winners. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| Whiteboy - 2014-09-16 3:45 PM
I think it depends on the particular operation and what their breeding objectives are. When I purchased this mare Jess I was looking for a nice looking mare with a nice pedigree, that had a decent track record. I really wanted a mare that could run 250 yards under 13 seconds. That was one of my loose criteria. I found jess and she had a good pedigree, while not super saught after in the arena, but she had the quick speed, and good looks, so I jumped on it. But nice mares are really hard to come by. And they are very expensive. I don't know if people care about AAAT speed in a mare but I figured it sure can't hurt.   We will see if it pays off in the future.Â
I'd have taken a chance on her too! WOW!!!
I think Mare power is underestimated in the barrel industry. Personally, I bought a filly whose momma is proven in the roping pen (PRCA money earner) and is out of one hell of a cutting stud (think LOTS of money won and his name reminds you of human gastroenteritis fixes). I didn't buy the filly because of the names on her paper, I bought her for her mind after working/ training on her for a couple months.
Also, like someone else pointed out, the racing industry will pay a heck of alot more than the barrel industry. Cutters and Reiners depend more on the region in my opinion when it comes to what the Dam has accomplished.
EDA - my crappy spelling. sorry.
Edited by lindseylou2290 2014-09-16 4:48 PM
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | It shouldn't be, but it is. Kuhlmann trained me well on how to REALLY look at a pedigree. If you just look at 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation sires I'm sure it all looks dandy.
So many people look at a mare and think she's awesome because she's a daughter of such and such stallion, or even a granddaughter of such and such stallion. But you then need to ask- WHO IS HER MOTHER? What did her dam do? What did her dam produce? What did her 2nd dam on the maternal side produce and do?
I DO think people will pay more for horses who have strong maternal lines- and when I say maternal lines, I don't mean the paternal names on the bottom side of the papers.
When it comes to mares on the track, I look at the mare herself, her dam, and her second dam. I need to have something good within those generations…
Unfortunately i will have a horse who won't get to prove herself in the arena because of an old injury. However, she has a pedigree packed with strong mares who consistently produced winning horses and were winners themselves. Thankfully, she has a solid female family to fall back on.
Edited by casualdust07 2014-09-16 5:14 PM
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | casualdust07 - 2014-09-16 4:12 PM It shouldn't be, but it is. Kuhlmann trained me well on how to REALLY look at a pedigree. If you just look at 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation sires I'm sure it all looks dandy. So many people look at a mare and think she's awesome because she's a daughter of such and such stallion, or even a granddaughter of such and such stallion. But you then need to ask- WHO IS HER MOTHER? What did her dam do? What did her dam produce? What did her 2nd dam on the maternal side produce and do? I DO think people will pay more for horses who have strong maternal lines- and when I say maternal lines, I don't mean the paternal names on the bottom side of the papers. When it comes to mares on the track, I look at the mare herself, her dam, and her second dam. I need to have something good within those generations… Unfortunately i will have a horse who won't get to prove herself in the arena because of an old injury. However, she has a pedigree packed with strong mares who consistently produced winning horses and were winners themselves. Thankfully, she has a solid female family to fall back on.
This is very true, but most barrel horse breeders can't afford to buy a $25K + broodmare that won't have a foal make a name for itself for another 4-5 yrs. Also, I know there are some, but most barrel breeders aren't doing multiple embryo on their broodmares. Race people are huge on this. They have a AAA, $100,000 winner with a black type female family bred to 4 different stallions and maybe 2-3 of them hit the track winning in 2 yrs. They get much faster return on their investment and a mare like that is a HELL of an investment.
We have always done the best with what we can buy. I have a Sixarun mare that had just a couple starts, most of her offspring seem to have ended up in Mexico. Her dam produced a stakes winner of $100K. She has been a really nice broodmare for us. We actually got a heck of a deal on her because she was due in May.
If I were to buy a barrel prospect, I could actually care less how fast the dam ran. Too many NFR and Futurity winners without race records for me to care about a race track record. | |
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 Firecracker Dog Lover
Posts: 3175
| I am a bit off in that I will always look at a mare's side of a pedigree before the sire. I think a strong maternal line puts a strong stamp on the resulting foal more often than not. | |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | wyoming barrel racer - 2014-09-16 6:08 PM
casualdust07 - 2014-09-16 4:12 PM It shouldn't be, but it is. Kuhlmann trained me well on how to REALLY look at a pedigree. If you just look at 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation sires I'm sure it all looks dandy. So many people look at a mare and think she's awesome because she's a daughter of such and such stallion, or even a granddaughter of such and such stallion. But you then need to ask- WHO IS HER MOTHER? What did her dam do? What did her dam produce? What did her 2nd dam on the maternal side produce and do? I DO think people will pay more for horses who have strong maternal lines- and when I say maternal lines, I don't mean the paternal names on the bottom side of the papers. When it comes to mares on the track, I look at the mare herself, her dam, and her second dam. I need to have something good within those generations… Unfortunately i will have a horse who won't get to prove herself in the arena because of an old injury. However, she has a pedigree packed with strong mares who consistently produced winning horses and were winners themselves. Thankfully, she has a solid female family to fall back on.
This is very true, Â but most barrel horse breeders can't afford to buy a $25K + broodmare that won't have a foal make a name for itself for another 4-5 yrs. Also, I know there are some, but most barrel breeders aren't doing multiple embryo on their broodmares. Â Race people are huge on this. They have a AAA, $100,000 winner with a black type female family bred to 4 different stallions and maybe 2-3 of them hit the track winning in 2 yrs. They get much faster return on their investment and a mare like that is a HELL of an investment.
We have always done the best with what we can buy. I have a Sixarun mare that had just a couple starts, most of her offspring seem to have ended up in Mexico. Her dam produced a stakes winner of $100K. She has been a really nice broodmare for us. We actually got a heck of a deal on her because she was due in May.
If I were to buy a barrel prospect, I could actually care less how fast the dam ran. Too many NFR and Futurity winners without race records for me to care about a race track record.
You don't have to spend $25,000 on a broodmare with a solid female family. You just have to know what to look for. The race horse broodmares who sell 30,000-50,000 yearlings are way out of my budget. But I've managed to find mares who have pretty solid black type on their pedigrees and I never paid over $5000 for any of them. Part of it is luck…
I got a Stoli daughter out of Shiney Miles, who's the dam to the stallion Rare News. I bought her skinny and open before Stolis were hot for $3500. Shiney Miles is a stakes winner, three of my mare's half siblings won over 40,000 on the track, the fourth won $22,000, the fifth won over $70,000.
I got a Shazoom daughter out of Dashin La Jolla- dam of Dashin Czar- for an even trade worth $4500. Her dam won over $54,000 on the track and was exported to Brazil. Mine was AA and a race winner, but wasn't a big money winner.
I got a Strawflyin Buds mare who's second dam is Bunnys Fortune for $3500. The biggest plus for her was that she's a finished barrel horse.
I like to see a race record, but it's not necessary. I think of it like this- between the mare herself, the first dam, and the second dam, two of the three have to have done something. I understand some mare's don't get to prove themselves as a performer,or maybe their dam never got to.. My Strawflyin Buds mare's dam wasn't stellar on the track at all. And like you said- they don't have to be stellar race horses to make stellar barrel horses. That's how I got most of my mares. But a solid family that proves good genes are passed down sure helps. | |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | casualdust07 - 2014-09-16 6:05 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-09-16 6:08 PM casualdust07 - 2014-09-16 4:12 PM It shouldn't be, but it is. Kuhlmann trained me well on how to REALLY look at a pedigree. If you just look at 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation sires I'm sure it all looks dandy. So many people look at a mare and think she's awesome because she's a daughter of such and such stallion, or even a granddaughter of such and such stallion. But you then need to ask- WHO IS HER MOTHER? What did her dam do? What did her dam produce? What did her 2nd dam on the maternal side produce and do? I DO think people will pay more for horses who have strong maternal lines- and when I say maternal lines, I don't mean the paternal names on the bottom side of the papers. When it comes to mares on the track, I look at the mare herself, her dam, and her second dam. I need to have something good within those generations… Unfortunately i will have a horse who won't get to prove herself in the arena because of an old injury. However, she has a pedigree packed with strong mares who consistently produced winning horses and were winners themselves. Thankfully, she has a solid female family to fall back on. This is very true, but most barrel horse breeders can't afford to buy a $25K + broodmare that won't have a foal make a name for itself for another 4-5 yrs. Also, I know there are some, but most barrel breeders aren't doing multiple embryo on their broodmares. Race people are huge on this. They have a AAA, $100,000 winner with a black type female family bred to 4 different stallions and maybe 2-3 of them hit the track winning in 2 yrs. They get much faster return on their investment and a mare like that is a HELL of an investment.
We have always done the best with what we can buy. I have a Sixarun mare that had just a couple starts, most of her offspring seem to have ended up in Mexico. Her dam produced a stakes winner of $100K. She has been a really nice broodmare for us. We actually got a heck of a deal on her because she was due in May.
If I were to buy a barrel prospect, I could actually care less how fast the dam ran. Too many NFR and Futurity winners without race records for me to care about a race track record. You don't have to spend $25,000 on a broodmare with a solid female family. You just have to know what to look for. The race horse broodmares who sell 30,000-50,000 yearlings are way out of my budget. But I've managed to find mares who have pretty solid black type on their pedigrees and I never paid over $5000 for any of them. Part of it is luck… I got a Stoli daughter out of Shiney Miles, who's the dam to the stallion Rare News. I bought her skinny and open before Stolis were hot for $3500. Shiney Miles is a stakes winner, three of my mare's half siblings won over 40,000 on the track, the fourth won $22,000, the fifth won over $70,000. I got a Shazoom daughter out of Dashin La Jolla- dam of Dashin Czar- for an even trade worth $4500. Her dam won over $54,000 on the track and was exported to Brazil. Mine was AA and a race winner, but wasn't a big money winner. I got a Strawflyin Buds mare who's second dam is Bunnys Fortune for $3500. The biggest plus for her was that she's a finished barrel horse. I like to see a race record, but it's not necessary. I think of it like this- between the mare herself, the first dam, and the second dam, two of the three have to have done something. I understand some mare's don't get to prove themselves as a performer,or maybe their dam never got to.. My Strawflyin Buds mare's dam wasn't stellar on the track at all. And like you said- they don't have to be stellar race horses to make stellar barrel horses. That's how I got most of my mares. But a solid family that proves good genes are passed down sure helps.
I know what you mean, but the nicest female families out there, including the mare being proven herself (and not having 1 foot already in the grave) are going to cost a lot more than $3500. Most of the really nice barrel mares, proven producers, would not even get a 2nd look from the top race breeders. Good too, leave those nice mares more affordable for us
I have shopped for good deals on all our mares. My Ivory James was a steal compared to what the IJ are bringing. Her 2nd dam is Lil Bit Rusty. We paid 1/2 what she brought at the Heritage as a yearling because she had a minor track injury and they didn't want to wait for her to heal.
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Yep!! That is how I do it too. But we also have different jobs and expectations out of our barrel horses, I don't think we need quite what the race horse people need.. which is why I'm OK with a really well bred race track flunky :P.
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Pig-Bear Dog Lover
| I prefer a proven barrel horse for a dam, that's just my conclusion. (btw I'm getting hocks injected next week, yawl were right sore hocks is no good.) 
Edited by SwishMiss 2014-09-16 8:15 PM
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 MEOW!
Posts: 4477
Location: High heels in the air... | I'll play...I bred one of my cutting mares to a top barrel stallion...She was too hot in the cutting pen and will outrun everything on the place...big butt, baby doll head, well bred for a cutting horse and physically correct..She is the first one everyone asks about since she is so pretty...She also reproduces the stallion, not herself..her colts all take after their daddies..I want a low hocked, balanced individual that can hold up to anything we want it to do...
My mares are pretty, well bred, low to the ground...if my colts don't cut it running barrels, we rope on them and can sell them to working cowhorse people...
So, I look more at the individual as well as bloodlines... | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 365
| I want a colt from 2 proven parents preferably. Take my gelding for example. His mom was a 1D barrel and pole horse, daughter of Dinkys Red Man. His sire is a son of Sticks An Stones, ran decent on the track not a 1D barrel horse. My gelding looks exactly like his dam, and I mention her before the stud.
Half your horse still comes from the mare. | |
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