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 Expert
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| I was talking with a couple of been there, done that, wrote the book type of cowboys last night. We got pretty deep into the thoughts and theory of hair whorls and swirls. They both seemed pretty steeped in knowledge and, after inspecting my filly, proceeded to "educate" me.
This little tid bit article tends to sum up what they were talking about - http://www.foxpointfarm.com/Swirlology.html
excerpt -
Whorls are individual to every horse (like our fingerprints) and many breed registries use them as identification as they can never be brushed or clipped out. Trainer Linda Tellington-Jones believes whorls can indicate a horse's temperament;
• A whorl positioned above the eyes is the most common and indicates a horse with an uncomplicated nature.
• Horses with whorls below the eyes usually have above average intelligence and like to make a nuisance of themselves by opening gates etc.
• Whorls positioned on the left of the face indicate a complicated but trustworthy horse, while horses with whorls on the right can be uncooperative.
• Horses with one long whorl line (also called a 'feather mark' and is the equivalent of a human hair part) are people-friendly and Linda says that a horse with this type of whorl who isn't friendly should be investigated as it’s likely they are in pain or being abused.
• Horses with two adjoining whorls can be emotional and difficult to handle and do not make good mounts for inexperienced riders.
• Three whorls on the forehead is extremely rare and can indicate an unpredictable horse or, if a stallion, dangerous to handle.
Tellington-Jones has consistently stressed that the best use of swirl analysis is in discovering how best to approach a particular horse’s training.
“If a horse’s swirls tell you he’s the more temperamental type, then you know not to get after him for ‘attitude,’ as that will just upset him more,” she says. “Many of my top horses had two swirls. Nowadays we have so many more ways to deal with such horses—to teach them to think instead of react.”
SOOOOOO - What do you all think? What is your experience with whorls and swirls? Is it a bunch of hogwash?? Got any neat pictures of 'em??? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 490
| My problem gelding has 2 swirls side by side. He is VERY sensitive and emotional. He has been abused in the past so I dont blame him. And he is DEFINITELY not for novice riders. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| My experience with whorls agree with Linda's assessment. |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| Interesting!!!
My older mare is super smart and has a double whorl right between her eyes - but can be fractious if she doesn't have a confident rider/handler ... I am fascinated what others think of these theories!
Edited by lindseylou2290 2014-09-19 9:58 AM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
 
| Years ago Horse and Rider Magazine had a very indepth article about swirls.
Honestly, I quit believing in the swirls as I have more horses disprove it. I look at sire and dam, as well as upbringing. |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| cheryl makofka - 2014-09-19 10:05 AM
Years ago Horse and Rider Magazine had a very indepth article about swirls.
Honestly, I quit believing in the swirls as I have more horses disprove it. I look at sire and dam, as well as upbringing.
I agree that sire, dam, and environment have more to do with how a horse will "take" to something or react to it than say the hair pattern on one. However, I think these theories evolved for a reason, right? When trends are noticed, the theories are born.
Its a good discussion for a Friday for sure! |
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  Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | They have usually proven true with horses that I have had. Need to look at my new one. |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| sorrel horse ranch - 2014-09-19 10:13 AM
They have usually proven true with horses that I have had. Need to look at my new one.
Do tell me more, please?? I'm interested in what was proven true for you? |
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Good Ole Boys just Fine with Me
Posts: 2869
Location: SE Missouri | Here's another shared with me.. The distance between swirls on each side of the mane.. Closer together, easier to train.
My Lions Share of Fame has a double swirl right between her eyes. Super smart, athletic, has taken EVERYTHING in stride, and trust us.. I think in the wrong hands she could be made into a goof ball (like alot of them). One of my geldings has lower swirls and he's extremely smart and b/c of past pain issues EXTREMELY fragile. Fine line with him, you can't walk on eggshells around him. If you make things a big deal, it will be a big deal. If you ignore a fit he will try you next time, so needless to say he keeps me on my toes, lol. Those are the two that stick out in my mind on the whorls, now I'm gonna to remember how everyone else lines up..
I do have a filly that has crazy big swirls on her jaws. Same place each side and it's odd looking. I really like her so far, laid back, smart, seems athletic. I'll snap some pictures so you all can weigh in!
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| please do take pics!! I'd love to see 'em! Thanks for chime'n in! |
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 Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | I am a disbeliever. I read a lot of articles about it when I had a horse with whorls all over the place and the articles all contridict what the other article says. Some say the smartest horses have whorls higher than eye level, some say below, etc. I have seen more horses 'break the mold' than follow it where hair patterns are concerned.
Take the double whorl deal-I personally know two horses with double forehead whorls. I have seen both from being green on up though their training. Both are the most level headed, easiest going, trainable horses I have some across. They are not fractious or difficult at all. They are the types you can put anyone on and will go out of their way to babysit them. They are also very athletic and can perform. |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| Fair enough - but was the person handling and training them experienced and knew what to do? Probably guessing here, yes. Thus, it comes back to Cheryl's point that environment, sire/dam, etc that makes the horse ...
I still find it interesting and the more I think on it today, the more I think its' 50/50 in my book of horses that fit the "stereotypes" or break the mold. However, something had to trend for these theories to be formulated, right? |
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Queen Bee Cat Owner
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Location: Way up North | With the one horse, yes, they had an experienced trainer but not a pro. The other horse was trainer by someone who has next to no training experience. Neither horse is remotely related.
As far as the sire/dam aspect; hair patterns are an inheritable trait. So, my question becomes is it because of the hair pattern or because of the breeding? In a lot of ways they are one in the same but it does open up the debate, did the certain hair patterns get pegged as being a certain way because a particular bloodline is that way and it has nothing to do with the physical attribute or are they seperate issues? |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| AllAroundRider - 2014-09-19 4:11 PM
With the one horse, yes, they had an experienced trainer but not a pro. The other horse was trainer by someone who has next to no training experience. Neither horse is remotely related.
As far as the sire/dam aspect; hair patterns are an inheritable trait. So, my question becomes is it because of the hair pattern or because of the breeding? In a lot of ways they are one in the same but it does open up the debate, did the certain hair patterns get pegged as being a certain way because a particular bloodline is that way and it has nothing to do with the physical attribute or are they seperate issues?
Good question ... I love science and research and a quick google found some interesting thoughts:
1) At least in this breed of horse (Konik) heritability of just the forehead swirl was almost 83%. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17177695 (journal of animal breeding and genetics)
2) This article (journal of behavior processes) looks at the direction in which the hair flows from the whorl (clockwise,counterclockwise, etc) and correlates "handedness" to help trainers in Ireland determine athletic ability and train ability of the animals tracked - it goes more in depth than my cursory explanation - http://attelage.org/f_article_disp_pdf.php?aid=7886
So ... can hair whorls then indicate or suggest but not dictate the ability of a horse? Maybe so. However, the 2nd article makes sure to acknowledge that the trainer for sure has a play in the development of the horse.
Again, I keep getting hung up that the "old farmer tales" had to have come from somewhere. We know that certain lines of horses are more fractious than others, some buck like crazy, some are dead heads, some are cow eaters ... Hair is also inheritable, whorls are too .... Can I get AQHA to fund me and I'll go on a genetic lineage spree figuring this out!!!??! I'm sure they've got "parentage" profiles on the major studs and mares out there!!! We could track allele's and heritage of such and correlate it with given personality traits .... I need a beer and someone to write this grant for me!!LOL.
Random Thought - Didn't the Hereford industry run EPD's on hair whorls and temperaments????!!! |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | abrooks - 2014-09-19 10:26 AM Here's another shared with me.. The distance between swirls on each side of the mane.. Closer together, easier to train.
My Lions Share of Fame has a double swirl right between her eyes. Super smart, athletic, has taken EVERYTHING in stride, and trust us.. I think in the wrong hands she could be made into a goof ball (like alot of them). One of my geldings has lower swirls and he's extremely smart and b/c of past pain issues EXTREMELY fragile. Fine line with him, you can't walk on eggshells around him. If you make things a big deal, it will be a big deal. If you ignore a fit he will try you next time, so needless to say he keeps me on my toes, lol. Those are the two that stick out in my mind on the whorls, now I'm gonna to remember how everyone else lines up..
I do have a filly that has crazy big swirls on her jaws. Same place each side and it's odd looking. I really like her so far, laid back, smart, seems athletic. I'll snap some pictures so you all can weigh in!
The problem with the ones that are on the neck and other places along the body, they move as they age. I have seen pictures of them young and then again as they aged 10 yrs and the swirls have relocated.  |
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | It fun to look at this but I don't put much stock in it. |
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I Really Love Jeans
Posts: 3173
Location: North Dakota | My mare has none but she is the biggest A double SS that I have ever had to deal with. She is so talented but dang she can be such a grouch. She has even bit me on the butt when I was taking the saddle off. As weird as it sounds she is extremely smart considering her personality. Maybe thats the problem! |
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Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | I am sorry please excuse me from the post for now. I have just lost my Rat Terrier I have had for 13 years and I am too upset at the moment to post the details. If this is still up later I will try to get my book out and remember back when to exactly what I had. |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| Oh Sorrel!!! I'm so sorry!  |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| wyoming barrel racer - 2014-09-19 4:45 PM
abrooks - 2014-09-19 10:26 AM Here's another shared with me.. The distance between swirls on each side of the mane.. Closer together, easier to train.
My Lions Share of Fame has a double swirl right between her eyes. Super smart, athletic, has taken EVERYTHING in stride, and trust us.. I think in the wrong hands she could be made into a goof ball (like alot of them). One of my geldings has lower swirls and he's extremely smart and b/c of past pain issues EXTREMELY fragile. Fine line with him, you can't walk on eggshells around him. If you make things a big deal, it will be a big deal. If you ignore a fit he will try you next time, so needless to say he keeps me on my toes, lol. Those are the two that stick out in my mind on the whorls, now I'm gonna to remember how everyone else lines up..
I do have a filly that has crazy big swirls on her jaws. Same place each side and it's odd looking. I really like her so far, laid back, smart, seems athletic. I'll snap some pictures so you all can weigh in!
The problem with the ones that are on the neck and other places along the body, they move as they age. I have seen pictures of them young and then again as they aged 10 yrs and the swirls have relocated.
This is a good point ... hmmmmm so it's coming back to heredity and genetics linking swirls, whorls, personality and such .... maybe? |
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