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 Husband Spoiler
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Location: North Dakota | I was out riding the other day and we were trotting along out in some grass when all of a sudden he stumbled and came up dead lame so I quickly jumped off and his leg looked fine so I picked it up and he was bleeding a little from the collateral sulcus on the side of the frog (a little over half way to the apex of the frog). I have no idea what he stepped on. I look around quickly but I was more worried about getting him back to the barn and cleaned up. He was in a lot of pain. That happened Friday evening so Saturday morning I took him into the vet. They cleaned it up more, xrayed it, but couldn't find anything foreign. The vet didn't think it was deep enough to hit anything major and that it was a little too far forward to hit the navicular area but he is still three legged lame. Yesterday morning when I pulled him out of his stall he would only step down on his tippy toe. He seemed a bit better last night...he would actually place the whole foot down but was still very very lame (but he also got banamine in the morning). I have not been out yet to see him this morning since it was very late last night when I got home so he got treated and fed late.
My question is is it normal for a horse to be this lame and in this much pain without having injured anything major? Is the frog that sensitive? Like I said the puncture is near the sulcus but goes into the side of the frog. I am so worried about him. |
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 Expert
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| Normal is a relative term when it comes to pain. Horses are like people - they all have different tolerances for pain. But, the frog is also a very tender area ....
With that in mind, follow your vet's orders and continue forward. I bet he'll come out of it in time with the right help! It sounds like you're doing the best you can for him so keep it up. :) |
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Husband Spoiler
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Location: North Dakota | lindseylou2290 - 2014-09-29 9:31 AM Normal is a relative term when it comes to pain. Horses are like people - they all have different tolerances for pain. But, the frog is also a very tender area .... With that in mind, follow your vet's orders and continue forward. I bet he'll come out of it in time with the right help! It sounds like you're doing the best you can for him so keep it up. :)
Thanks. He is kind of a big baby so at times I do think he may be milking it a tiny bit. My mares would run on three legs but my gelding seems to be a bit of a drama queen. But it is just so hard to see him in so much pain. When I went out to check on him Friday night I just hugged him and cried. I am giving him banamine in the mornings to help with pain and inflammation, he gets Uniprim with his nightly feeding, I am alternationg between a sugardine pack and charcoal poultice, and I am going to soak it in iodine this morning. I haven't been soaking it everday because I don't want to soften the hoof too much. |
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Expert
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| ahhhh :) Hugs! It's hard to see 'em in pain isn't it?? My older mare is a pansy about pain and the younger one would run on three legs too!
The sugar type packing will help the most if he does have something to draw out - thankfully, it sounds like you were able to address his issue right away. Chin up! We've all been there and they do heal!
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Husband Spoiler
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Location: North Dakota | Well I just get myself freaked out reading articles online. They all say that a puncture to the frog can be career and even life threatening, etc, etc. So of course my mind goes straight to "OMG! This is it. I should have just put him away when I was going to and not take him out for that last trot. I ruined him!" |
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 Jr. Detective
 
Location: Beggs, OK | My husbands good gelding punctured his frog with a piece of baling wire. It took a few months before he was getting around 100% on it. We went through abcesses and the vet cutting out too much tissue, then the entire frog shed out. He is sound now though. I did the same thing you did and had myself sick watching him walking around and not putting is whole foot down on the ground. We were so worried that he was going to ruin his other leg the way he was favoring that foot. |
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Location: North Dakota | rachellyn80 - 2014-09-29 10:41 AM My husbands good gelding punctured his frog with a piece of baling wire. It took a few months before he was getting around 100% on it. We went through abcesses and the vet cutting out too much tissue, then the entire frog shed out. He is sound now though. I did the same thing you did and had myself sick watching him walking around and not putting is whole foot down on the ground. We were so worried that he was going to ruin his other leg the way he was favoring that foot.
That is what I am afraid of too! I keep reading about how the other thing to watch out for is laminites in the weight baring feet. Ugh! I just feel so sick. |
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 It Goes On
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Location: Muskogee, OK | Not to scare you but I would be suspicious of it communicating with the navicular bursa if he is still 3 legged lame days after the initial incident.
I know you said your vet took rads and didn't see any foreign bodies... It is possible something could be still stuck up there and just not radiopaque enough to show up on X-rays (something like wood will not show up). You could do a fistulogram (inject material that will show up on X-ray directly into puncture to see where it goes). At this point though if it was just a clean puncture without any communication with a synovial structure (joint) the horse should not be 3 legged, unless an abscess has formed or something is still stuck up there.
Good luck! |
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Location: North Dakota | barrelracingchick16 - 2014-09-29 10:37 PM Not to scare you but I would be suspicious of it communicating with the navicular bursa if he is still 3 legged lame days after the initial incident. I know you said your vet took rads and didn't see any foreign bodies... It is possible something could be still stuck up there and just not radiopaque enough to show up on X-rays (something like wood will not show up). You could do a fistulogram (inject material that will show up on X-ray directly into puncture to see where it goes). At this point though if it was just a clean puncture without any communication with a synovial structure (joint) the horse should not be 3 legged, unless an abscess has formed or something is still stuck up there. Good luck! My main vet was not around this weekend so her husband (who mostly works on cattle but is still a very good vet) worked on him. I talked to my regular vet yesterday because I was worried about him still being so sore so I asked for her oppinion but she said if I brought him in there really isn't much more she would do than what her husband hasn't already done. (I asked her what she would do differently...she didn't tell me not to bring him in but that was her answer to my question). She said she looked at the radiographs and where the puncture is there is no tissue we need to worry about getting septic. She thinks it will just take time and to continue doing what I have been doing.
He did seem a tiny bit better yesterday. He was actually placing the foot down to walk though still very very lame and reluctant to do it. He also stood with his foot flat quite a bit more instead of on his toe. He seemed to want to put some weight on it.
ETA: We also thought there could be something like wood or plant fiber up there but he examined it as best as possible and could not find anything. I think the puncture is too far forward to hit the navicular bursa. That is what I was afraid of but I did a lot of research myself and I think it is too far forward to hit the bursa and then both vets also felt the puncture was too far forward.
So far swelling has stayed down which I feel is a good sign.
Thank you so much though! Everything you had said was something I was concerned about but I am starting to feel that it will just take time. I will keep a very close eye on it and look for any signs of improvement or worsening.
Edited by Just Bring It 2014-09-30 9:03 AM
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It Goes On
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Location: Muskogee, OK | The other thing you could be dealing with is an osteomyelitis (bone infection) if the puncture went to the coffin bone.
I actually just recently had a similar thing happen to my mare. I am a vet student and was away at an externship in TX when my roomate called and said she was 3 legged lame (right hind). Of course she had stepped on a screw while I was gone, and it was in a very similar location as yours (the frog). I had my roommate immediately take her to the vet school where they took rads and it showed the the screw had either went into the coffin bone or atleast touched it. But (luckily) did not puncture any synovial structure.
Here is one of her rads:
They then pulled the screw and did a fistulogram to see exactly how far that tract went. She immediately was weight bearing again after pulling the screw. To get ahead of any osteomyelitis and hopefully help prevent pedal osteitis later down the road we went ahead and did 3 days of antibiotic limb perfusions, soaked with epsom salts every day and kept her foot wrapped for a little over a week. She also was on oral antibiotics. We are now a little over 2 weeks out from the initial puncture and she is sound and I have started back riding her.
I guess the reason for sharing my story with you is to emphasize that after pulling that screw she immediately was for the most part sound again. Could your horse still be lame solely from the trauma? It is possible but generally there are very few things that will make horses 3 legged lame as you described (abscesses, fractures, and joint infections are the high ones on the list). Like you pointed out, at this point aside from a fistulogram there is not a whole lot else to do. I would keep soaking him every day and even maybe wrap him in your choice of drawing salve.
Can you see the hole where the puncture was? If so, when you prod around it is it painful? You might want to keep the foot wrapped without a salve and put some clean gauze right over that hole so you can assess if there is any drainage coming from that area. Also, is there any swelling above the hoof? Is it generalized swelling or does it seem more like coffin joint effusion?
Again, not trying to scare you at all just hopefully offering some helpful insight after going through something very similar recently. Keep us posted on how he's doing! |
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Husband Spoiler
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Location: North Dakota | barrelracingchick16 - 2014-09-30 9:58 AM The other thing you could be dealing with is an osteomyelitis (bone infection) if the puncture went to the coffin bone.
I actually just recently had a similar thing happen to my mare. I am a vet student and was away at an externship in TX when my roomate called and said she was 3 legged lame (right hind). Of course she had stepped on a screw while I was gone, and it was in a very similar location as yours (the frog). I had my roommate immediately take her to the vet school where they took rads and it showed the the screw had either went into the coffin bone or atleast touched it. But (luckily) did not puncture any synovial structure.
Here is one of her rads:
They then pulled the screw and did a fistulogram to see exactly how far that tract went. She immediately was weight bearing again after pulling the screw. To get ahead of any osteomyelitis and hopefully help prevent pedal osteitis later down the road we went ahead and did 3 days of antibiotic limb perfusions, soaked with epsom salts every day and kept her foot wrapped for a little over a week. She also was on oral antibiotics. We are now a little over 2 weeks out from the initial puncture and she is sound and I have started back riding her.
I guess the reason for sharing my story with you is to emphasize that after pulling that screw she immediately was for the most part sound again. Could your horse still be lame solely from the trauma? It is possible but generally there are very few things that will make horses 3 legged lame as you described (abscesses, fractures, and joint infections are the high ones on the list). Like you pointed out, at this point aside from a fistulogram there is not a whole lot else to do. I would keep soaking him every day and even maybe wrap him in your choice of drawing salve.
Can you see the hole where the puncture was? If so, when you prod around it is it painful? You might want to keep the foot wrapped without a salve and put some clean gauze right over that hole so you can assess if there is any drainage coming from that area. Also, is there any swelling above the hoof? Is it generalized swelling or does it seem more like coffin joint effusion?
Again, not trying to scare you at all just hopefully offering some helpful insight after going through something very similar recently. Keep us posted on how he's doing!
No, I know you are not trying to scare me. This is exactly why I came on here and asked for oppinions. This is exactly the type of stuff I was wondering about.
I can see the hole and he doesn't seem to care too much if I poke at it. But he does have a bulge up at his heal bulb now that is pretty tender. He is putting more weight on the leg today. He stands with it placed flat on the ground now and walks with it flat (though still very lame and tender) instead of on his toe. I have been soaking it and keeping it wrapped with a sugardine pack and then sometimes with a charcoal poultice. The charcoal will help draw anything out and sugardine will kill any infection. He is on Uniprim and I also have been using some dry cow medication on the area.
He stepped on a metal sliver a week earlier than this with his hind leg and got the sliver up in the "butt crack" of his heel bulb area. I soaked it and was able to get the 2" sliver out without a problem and after a few days of treating it he was fine. Like your horse he was very sore until I got the sliver out. He was still a tad tender but you could see the relief in his face once I got that out and he realized it didn't hurt as bad to step down. It was my first day back to riding him when he stepped on something else and did this. (yep been one of those years....ugh!)
There is no swelling but there is some heat in his heal bulb where there is a soft bulge (maybe from the moisture from soaking and wrapping??). I don't know what is going on back there but I think that is what is bothering him now. It is quite a ways away from the hole since that was closer to the apex of the frog.
Like I said I am seeing a bit of improvement everyday so I take that as a good sign. Yes, he is still very sore but he is not getting worse. |
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It Goes On
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Location: Muskogee, OK | Hope he continues to improve! Keep us posted on his progress.... |
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Location: North Dakota | barrelracingchick16 - 2014-10-01 9:52 AM Hope he continues to improve! Keep us posted on his progress....
Well he was getting around much better last night. Still very tender and sore but walking on it and standing on it. I think most of the tenderness is in the heel bulb area now. I kept the duct tape/diaper wrap off yesterday after the soak and just wrapped with vet wrap to help it dry out. The duct tape wrap seems to keep moisture in and I'm wondering if that is causing an issue?? I dry the foot before I wrap but there is still moisture in it when I pull it off. I did put a duct tape/diaper wrap on it again for the night though but I think I will keep the duct tape off during the day and just use vet wrap. |
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It Goes On
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Location: Muskogee, OK | Just Bring It - 2014-10-01 10:34 AM barrelracingchick16 - 2014-10-01 9:52 AM Hope he continues to improve! Keep us posted on his progress.... Well he was getting around much better last night. Still very tender and sore but walking on it and standing on it. I think most of the tenderness is in the heel bulb area now. I kept the duct tape/diaper wrap off yesterday after the soak and just wrapped with vet wrap to help it dry out. The duct tape wrap seems to keep moisture in and I'm wondering if that is causing an issue?? I dry the foot before I wrap but there is still moisture in it when I pull it off. I did put a duct tape/diaper wrap on it again for the night though but I think I will keep the duct tape off during the day and just use vet wrap.
I've found that the only way to really keep a hoof wrap on one is to use the duct tape/diaper method. Otherwise they wear through them so fast!! I would maybe do another wrap (Diaper, duct tape, vet wrap), but dont apply anything to the foot, just do a dry wrap. Before bandaing, put a dry piece of gauze right over where the puncture was so you can assess if its draining at all. Thats what I would do atleast :) |
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Husband Spoiler
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Location: North Dakota | barrelracingchick16 - 2014-10-01 10:41 AM Just Bring It - 2014-10-01 10:34 AM barrelracingchick16 - 2014-10-01 9:52 AM Hope he continues to improve! Keep us posted on his progress.... Well he was getting around much better last night. Still very tender and sore but walking on it and standing on it. I think most of the tenderness is in the heel bulb area now. I kept the duct tape/diaper wrap off yesterday after the soak and just wrapped with vet wrap to help it dry out. The duct tape wrap seems to keep moisture in and I'm wondering if that is causing an issue?? I dry the foot before I wrap but there is still moisture in it when I pull it off. I did put a duct tape/diaper wrap on it again for the night though but I think I will keep the duct tape off during the day and just use vet wrap.
Ok I will do that today. Yesterday all applied to the foot was some dry cow treatment, sprayed the heels with some scarlet oil and then wrapped with vet wrap and put him in a completely fresh stall that had not had a horse in it for months to try to avoid any chance of bacteria getting in that vet wrap. The heel looked dried out and much nicer last night when I took that wrap off. I have not noticed any drainage when I check my wraps when I pull them off but I will keep on checking and I will apply some gauze today. |
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Husband Spoiler
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Location: North Dakota | Ok so I figured out what is going on with his heel. I had noticed a hole in the butt crack of his heel and I was thinking thrush well today after a long Epsom salt soak I stuck the syringe nose of the dry cow meds into the puncture hole at the bottom of his foot since it was soft enough and the meds came out thru the heel!! |
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Location: Muskogee, OK | Just Bring It - 2014-10-01 4:48 PM Ok so I figured out what is going on with his heel. I had noticed a hole in the butt crack of his heel and I was thinking thrush well today after a long Epsom salt soak I stuck the syringe nose of the dry cow meds into the puncture hole at the bottom of his foot since it was soft enough and the meds came out thru the heel!!
Interesting! Sounds like whatever it was went straight back through the heel? |
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Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I didnt read all the posts but did give him a Tetanus Booster shot? |
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Location: North Dakota | Southtxponygirl - 2014-10-01 9:44 PM I didnt read all the posts but did give him a Tetanus Booster shot?
He didn't get a booster but he just recently got his Tetanus shot. |
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Husband Spoiler
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Location: North Dakota | barrelracingchick16 - 2014-10-01 9:14 PM Just Bring It - 2014-10-01 4:48 PM Ok so I figured out what is going on with his heel. I had noticed a hole in the butt crack of his heel and I was thinking thrush well today after a long Epsom salt soak I stuck the syringe nose of the dry cow meds into the puncture hole at the bottom of his foot since it was soft enough and the meds came out thru the heel!! Interesting! Sounds like whatever it was went straight back through the heel?
Yeah. Either it went thru and thru or an abscess came out through the heel? I never noticed any puss or anything. I noticed the hole a couple days ago (couldn't see it since it is in the crack of the heel but I knew it was there from sticking the dry cow syringe in it to treat it). But last night was the first time I was able to get the syringe in the actual puncture hole since it was soft enough after the long soak and I decided not be scared and just stick it in to get the meds in as deep as I could and sure enough it came squirting out the heel. |
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